20813 réponses à ce sujet

[gneissguy2003]

I've never really spent a lot of time around grunge/punk/goth type people, honestly. Never really been a huge fan of that scene. Nonetheless, I'm drawn to Jack, and I think it has to do with growing up around strong women like my sister.



My sister grew up being very tom-boyish and extremely independent. She also was very active in sports having played soccer, softball, field hockey, and, in college, rugby. To this day she coaches a women's rugby team. She's only about 5'5", but she's built like a wall and not just physically. She's got one of the sharpest minds and barbed tongues of anyone I've ever known in my life, which has gotten her into as many problems as its probably gotten her out of. She's sarcastic, witty, and knows her own mind. And I see these qualities in Jack. Having grown up around a person like my sister, I think, allows me to have a more personal understanding and appreciation of how Jack reacts and thinks.

[BobbyTheI]

Wow, here I thought I was the oldie of the group, creeping toward thirty and schooling all you young'uns on the wonders of bald girls.  You know, everyday I think to myself how funny it is that I'm a member of probably the last generation to remember when there wasn't an internet.  Remember when you had to buy HINT BOOKS if you couldn't get through a hard section of a game (my BG2 and TOB books are so tattered and frayed), and when you had to actually WRITE letters to people?

Any day now, I'm going to be on the front stoop, sending texts to the neighborhood kids to get off my syntho-lawn. 

[Mondo47]

I got nerdified despite the gender barrier thanks to my dear old dad buying me a ZX81 and his insistance I read 2000AD when Carlos Ezquerra still drew Judge Dredd... I'll be drawing me pension soon

And as for the kids on the lawn, I'm English, I'll be chasing them off the old fashioned way - foul language and a pickaxe handle. Worked since 1647, that has!

[Jackal904]

I'm 19 and pretty normal lol. I wear mostly American Eagle. I'm not a fan of emos or goths, they actually annoy me because most of them **** about how rough their life is when they're just ungrateful attention ****s. I like to think I'm much more mature than most people my age. I'm an engineering student and I get pretty good grades. I'm probably not the type of person you would expect to like a character like Jack haha. I do love melodic heavy metal like Dethklok and heavier rock like Avenged Sevenfold though. And I've always been a fan of badass chicks.

[Lackey_Liesmith]

royceclemens wrote...

Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and make a bold prediction from what I've seen on this thread.

How many people here are Gen X-er kids of the nineties? Ex-grungers and former punkers who knew someone like Jack or (Saints preserve us) WERE someone like Jack? War-torn refugees from an era where a sneer and a bad attitude were a badge of honor?

(Oh, and bonus points if you had a Nirvana "From the Muddy Banks of the Wiskah" t-shirt)

::raises hand::

Christ, no wonder this thread is so tiny. We all have jobs.

Hmm...although generation you described seem awfully familiar to me () I believe it's quality of writing put into character, rather than age of gamer,that is responsible for sympathy towards character. At least in my case. Ok - maybe a little sympathy for misfits, since I used to be and know some

Modifié par Lackey_Liesmith, 03 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[gneissguy2003]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Wow, here I thought I was the oldie of the group, creeping toward thirty and schooling all you young'uns on the wonders of bald girls.  You know, everyday I think to myself how funny it is that I'm a member of probably the last generation to remember when there wasn't an internet.  Remember when you had to buy HINT BOOKS if you couldn't get through a hard section of a game (my BG2 and TOB books are so tattered and frayed), and when you had to actually WRITE letters to people?

Any day now, I'm going to be on the front stoop, sending texts to the neighborhood kids to get off my syntho-lawn. 

You're not the only one creeping towards big number 30. I grew playing computer games on ye olde 386 processor with VGA graphics. If we were lucky, our friends had a computer capable of super VGA graphics. Oh, how pretty the colors were back then while playing games like Space Quest.

[BobbyTheI]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Wow, here I thought I was the oldie of the group, creeping toward thirty and schooling all you young'uns on the wonders of bald girls.  You know, everyday I think to myself how funny it is that I'm a member of probably the last generation to remember when there wasn't an internet.  Remember when you had to buy HINT BOOKS if you couldn't get through a hard section of a game (my BG2 and TOB books are so tattered and frayed), and when you had to actually WRITE letters to people?

Any day now, I'm going to be on the front stoop, sending texts to the neighborhood kids to get off my syntho-lawn. 

You're not the only one creeping towards big number 30. I grew playing computer games on ye olde 386 processor with VGA graphics. If we were lucky, our friends had a computer capable of super VGA graphics. Oh, how pretty the colors were back then while playing games like Space Quest.

Oh, God, remember configuring AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS?  Configuring Sound Blaster drivers?  Oh, the pains we went through to game back in the day.

[Mkrgross]

I wasn't trying to imply that my old age is the reason I like Jack, though growing up in the punk/goth scene contributes to it. Initially that is what drew me to her, but her personality and character is what solidified it.



On the gaming old school note, I didn't get a PC of my own till about 15 years ago, so a lot of the older games I'm not familiar with. Also I am more of a console gamer. (I have yet to find a desk chair as comfortable as my couch, coarse I could always hook my PC up to my HDTV). hmmm...

[gneissguy2003]

Mkrgross wrote...

I wasn't trying to imply that my old age is the reason I like Jack, though growing up in the punk/goth scene contributes to it. Initially that is what drew me to her, but her personality and character is what solidified it.

On the gaming old school note, I didn't get a PC of my own till about 15 years ago, so a lot of the older games I'm not familiar with. Also I am more of a console gamer. (I have yet to find a desk chair as comfortable as my couch, coarse I could always hook my PC up to my HDTV). hmmm...

Oh, I totally agree that it's more about Jack's personality and character. The voice actress for Jack did an amazing job of conveying the right emotions for each word spoken, and it makes Jack all the more enjoyable because you feel like the person behind the voice actually understands who this character is!  I like a good smartass, and Jack displays that in spades.

Back to "old gamer nostalgia", I grew up on Windows 3.1 and MSDOS almost exclusively. I never had a computer that ran Windows 95, and jumped straight to Windows 98 when I went to college in 1999.  I used to think I was the sh*t because I knew how to launch a program from an DOS prompt when most of the know-it-alls I was in college with didn't even know what DOS was. God, that was funny.

[Arhka]

Seeing how Jack's demeanor changes from when you pick her up to the ending was very satisfying. First, very suspicious and unattached, and then eventually, she grows into the Normandy's way of life and starts getting comfortable with the people around her.

Modifié par Arhka, 03 mars 2010 - 10:19 .

[Mkrgross]

I am sarcastic by nature, and I love the smartass attitude. Courtenay Taylor does an excellent job. I totally agree.

[Jackal904]

Mkrgross wrote...

I am sarcastic by nature, and I love the smartass attitude. Courtenay Taylor does an excellent job. I totally agree.

Haha same here. My friends call me a smartass often, and I too am frequently sarcastic .

Arhka wrote...

Seeing how Jack's demeanor changes from when you pick her up to the ending was very satisfying. First, very suspicious and unattached, and then eventually, she grows into the Normandy's way of life and starts getting comfortable with the people around her.

Ya she acts surprisingly comfortable later in the game. She's the only character that really evolves throughout the game. At first she really wants nothing to do with you or the rest of your team. Just to finish your mission then "cut loose." But later in the game she acts more comfortable and if you take her with you to Horizon, during your conversation with Ashley or Kaiden when they're ****ing about how you're with Cerberus, Jack says "Hey I hate Cerberus too but they're not the only threat in the galaxy."

[BobbyTheI]

Jackal904 wrote...

Mkrgross wrote...

I am sarcastic by nature, and I love the smartass attitude. Courtenay Taylor does an excellent job. I totally agree.

Haha same here. My friends call me a smartass often, and I too am frequently sarcastic .

Arhka wrote...

Seeing how Jack's demeanor changes from when you pick her up to the ending was very satisfying. First, very suspicious and unattached, and then eventually, she grows into the Normandy's way of life and starts getting comfortable with the people around her.

Ya she acts surprisingly comfortable later in the game. She's the only character that really evolves throughout the game. At first she really wants nothing to do with you or the rest of your team. Just to finish your mission then "cut loose." But later in the game she acts more comfortable and if you take her with you to Horizon, during your conversation with Ashley or Kaiden when they're ****ing about how you're with Cerberus, Jack says "Hey I hate Cerberus too but they're not the only threat in the galaxy."

It's the little things:  how her "Yep" in response to Shepard's old reliable "I should go" changes to "Okay, we'll talk later."  In some ways, I almost wish they didn't go all out and have the crying scene at the end, but had a more gradual softening process that led into ME3.  But there's only so much they could do with the limited number of conversations they had for each character, and what we got is pretty good.

[royceclemens]

I wish I could get in on the gaming nostalgia, but and ex got me into them when I was nineteen. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel old, just making mention that age brings the capacity for nuance.



But going back to Jack and the conversations in general, is that I don't really buy the complaint that there are somehow less conversation options in this game than there are in ME1. It's just that the conversations clash with the structure of the game. In ME1 you had four main planets and when you finished those you could talk to your squaddies.



ME2? There is no central structure, which I maintain isn't a bad thing. It's more like The Canterbury Tales in space. You can talk to them after every side mission, which means you'll run out of conversation options quickly. Of course this new crop of characters is so interesting, conservation of dialogue can fall out of the realm of temptation.



Taking this into mind, Jack is worth multiple playthroughs all by herself, as so many facets are revealed and there are so many ways to play her. You can Paragon and she'll sneer at you, Renegade and she'll shut down, or you can Neutral her and beat her at her own cooler-than-thou game. Which, if you ask me, is where all the great dialogue is. Real Elmore Leonard caliber material.



Aw, dammit, and now there's a wall of text next to my name. Stupid Jack, being all "interesting" and stuff.

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

In some ways, I almost wish they didn't go all out and have the crying scene at the end, but had a more gradual softening process that led into ME3. 

Pffft hell no. That was such a great moment. It's not like there's nothing left to do with Jack in ME3. There's a bunch of stuff about Jack we don't know and there's a lot they could do with her in ME3.

Modifié par Jackal904, 04 mars 2010 - 03:00 .

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

I wish I could get in on the gaming nostalgia, but and ex got me into them when I was nineteen. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel old, just making mention that age brings the capacity for nuance.

But going back to Jack and the conversations in general, is that I don't really buy the complaint that there are somehow less conversation options in this game than there are in ME1. It's just that the conversations clash with the structure of the game. In ME1 you had four main planets and when you finished those you could talk to your squaddies.

ME2? There is no central structure, which I maintain isn't a bad thing. It's more like The Canterbury Tales in space. You can talk to them after every side mission, which means you'll run out of conversation options quickly. Of course this new crop of characters is so interesting, conservation of dialogue can fall out of the realm of temptation.

Taking this into mind, Jack is worth multiple playthroughs all by herself, as so many facets are revealed and there are so many ways to play her. You can Paragon and she'll sneer at you, Renegade and she'll shut down, or you can Neutral her and beat her at her own cooler-than-thou game. Which, if you ask me, is where all the great dialogue is. Real Elmore Leonard caliber material.

Aw, dammit, and now there's a wall of text next to my name. Stupid Jack, being all "interesting" and stuff.

Nah, this ain't a wall-o'-text, not by a shot. Go back to page 13 and there's a wall-o'-text *whistles innocently*

But yeah, your Geff 'Oh my giddy aunt' Chaucer analogy. Bang on. The whole saving-the-galaxy shtick is secondary to saving your team from themselves. Moving them on. It really does feel like making an army; you're crafting your badasses not just for stuffing the Collectors good and proper, but for what lies beyond. It makes me think a lot of them will make it through to the next game potentially... I had an idea about how this would work, but it got lost in another thread that died a death. I'll try and find it and show it to you guys... since we're rather likeminded here and tend to discuss things beyond the weather, going to the bathroom and pictures with big fluffy hearts on them.

Yep - I'm a ****

Jackal904 wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

In
some ways, I almost wish they didn't go all out and have the crying
scene at the end, but had a more gradual softening process that led
into ME3. 

Pffft hell no. That was such a great moment.
It's not like there's nothing left to do for Jack in ME3. There's a
bunch of stuff about Jack we don't know and there's a lot they could do
with her in ME3.

I can see both sides there... on one hand, it shows she is vulnerable in a very simple, affecting and visual way. Getting to the heart of Jack is a blood-from-a-stone job, and tears also obviously (insofar as traditional old-school media representations at least) marks her as female; women are there to be outlets for the emotions the men are too manly to let out... you don't see enough guys crying in these kinds of stories...

On the other hand, as my other half pointed out to me, if you're about to get intimate and a chick bursts into tears... unless you're a total douche or you're in some kind of candyshop-overdose 1940's romance flick, you tend to not close escrow. In my mind, my Sheps that romanced her just let her get it out... there's plenty of time to literally get it out later. It's not a go-sign. And worst of all, some people take it as a display of weakness, which is boggling considering the **** the character has gone through... if she's not earned a few tears, well, you've got to be a heartless bastard to think that.

[royceclemens]

I can see how gender politics might come into play here, what with the strong woman breaking down into tears because a man saved her. It's a view I respect, but I'm gonna be the big ol' optimistic ****** and respectfully, marginally disagree.



I've only ever romanced Tali in addition to Jack in my playthroughs, and while that was a well-acted bit of business, the point of emphasis was on her. Namely that if she even so much as kisses Shepard, she will die. Again, I'm not going to try and Talibash (because I like the character a great deal), I'm just stating what I saw.



But with Jack, the onus is on Shepard. I stress the backstory with Mirtock, and how he and Jack cared for each other only for Mirtock to up and die to save her. This threw a whole lot of stuff into sharp relief for me as a player. Even when you state you have intentions towards her she still tries to push you away, but she isn't acting like a harridan because she's not interested or doesn't care. It's because she DOES care and the things she cares about get destroyed. So if she can scare him off, Shepard won't die.



In short, she's acting like a ***** to save your life.



So we come to the romance scene, certain doom potentially just a couple of hours away, and there's this guy who still cares for her despite being at her most scurrilous, and she starts crying. Is it because he "fixed" her? I don't think so. But rather I think it's because it's still in her head that Shepard will buy it on the Suicide Mission because that's how things like this always play out for her. But at least now (in the words of the great Zoe Washburn) she's not so scared of losing something that she's not going to try and have it.



So I don't look at it as an awesome dude fixing a broken woman. I think of it as a sad march towards something she thinks is inevitable. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[BobbyTheI]

royceclemens wrote...
So we come to the romance scene, certain doom potentially just a couple of hours away, and there's this guy who still cares for her despite being at her most scurrilous, and she starts crying. Is it because he "fixed" her? I don't think so. But rather I think it's because it's still in her head that Shepard will buy it on the Suicide Mission because that's how things like this always play out for her. But at least now (in the words of the great Zoe Washburn) she's not so scared of losing something that she's not going to try and have it..

You know, it's weird: all the mountains of text I've written about this character, and the mulling over her dialogues, I've never really put the final conversation with Jack into its proper context of the suicide mission.

I guess it might just be because I know everybody's going to live, or that the other LIs don't really treat the whole situation with much gravity.  (Really, from what I've seen on YouTube, the only other person who really seems to acknowledge that there's a good chance they could die on the upcoming mission is Thane, and that could just be as much about his own terminal condition as it is the upcoming danger).

Thinking about it that way, I guess that scene makes it much clearer that a lot of what makes Jack Jack is a front: a hard-edged persona that she feels she needs to play in order to survive.  As much as she wants to pretend that the scared little girl in the Cerberus facility is long gone, it's still right at the surface.  And heading into a battle where it's likely that one or both of them might not survive, she's willing to drop the facade for a little while.  

Also note that after the battle is all over, and everybody made it out alright, she's right back to her "normal" self.  Which you can read as BioWare not planning to write any big post-mission dialogues for the characters, or just her putting her walls back up afterward.

Another reason why I hope she shows up for ME3: I'd like to see if she can find a medium between the two.  Still tough and confident in her abilities, but willing to let her vulnerability show.

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

So I don't look at it as an awesome dude fixing a broken woman. I think of it as a sad march towards something she thinks is inevitable. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Ok, let's try again... I tried to write something last night but fell asleep at the wheel...

No, I'd say your opinion is entirely valid. And as I've said before, I pay little more than lip service to the idea that all it takes is the love of a good man/woman/varren/delete as applicable to tame the heart of the savage beast or that an injection of love toothpaste can fill the cracks in a fractured person (excuse the utterly disgusting analogy, but that is kinda what it boils down to, and that's why I have such huge issues with it as a trope... fish/bicycle anyone?).

I'll have to listen to the dialogue again to see if there are any cues that this is the actuality of the situation, but it is an angle I can buy. The other issue is there's just not enough dialogue to really 'get' a character who has any level of complexity. I'm not saying we should turn the ME games into Star Trek: The Next Conversation, but a little more... cerebrality (yes, it's a word... honest) might be a good thing insofar as the deep, interesting characters are concerned. I might not have loved everything about DA:O, but it did at least get this right.

[Lackey_Liesmith]

BobbyTheI wrote...
Also note that after the battle is all over, and everybody made it out alright, she's right back to her "normal" self.  Which you can read as BioWare not planning to write any big post-mission dialogues for the characters, or just her putting her walls back up afterward.

It seems to be problem for all the LI's. After initial comment on defeating the Collectors they  return to dialogue preceeding romance finale. Although Jack seems to be even more damaged because of lack of even slightest acknowledgement that mission succeded.
It's kind of disappointing but considering the fact that some characters agreed to acompany Shepard only for the duration of mission against Collectors (Samara - because she has her own responsibilities, Jack - although depending on your decisions she might have changed her mind, Miranda - because she is still Cerberus, even if she agreed with Collectors base destruction, Zaed - because his job is finished) it seems to be a Bioware's choice rather than overlook.  What's the alternative? One third of the crew stating that: "Hey it was nice working with ya but it's time for me to bail."?

[royceclemens]

Mondo47 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

So I don't look at it as an awesome dude fixing a broken woman. I think of it as a sad march towards something she thinks is inevitable. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Ok, let's try again... I tried to write something last night but fell asleep at the wheel...

No, I'd say your opinion is entirely valid. And as I've said before, I pay little more than lip service to the idea that all it takes is the love of a good man/woman/varren/delete as applicable to tame the heart of the savage beast or that an injection of love toothpaste can fill the cracks in a fractured person (excuse the utterly disgusting analogy, but that is kinda what it boils down to, and that's why I have such huge issues with it as a trope... fish/bicycle anyone?).

I'll have to listen to the dialogue again to see if there are any cues that this is the actuality of the situation, but it is an angle I can buy. The other issue is there's just not enough dialogue to really 'get' a character who has any level of complexity. I'm not saying we should turn the ME games into Star Trek: The Next Conversation, but a little more... cerebrality (yes, it's a word... honest) might be a good thing insofar as the deep, interesting characters are concerned. I might not have loved everything about DA:O, but it did at least get this right.

Well, I'm in the middle of a playthrough right now, and after the Murtock conversation, she says something to the effect of "I told you this wouldn't work out.  We'll end up hurt, or you'll sleep around, or I'll end up killing you or something."

I think it's that last part that brought me around to my interpretation.  She said she might kill him, but she didn't necessarily say she was going to be the one pulling the trigger.  Beng as she just finished a monologue about about how her affections got someone killed, that's what I thought she meant.  What makes Jack so fascinating to analyze is that it's about her inability to express herself, so sometimes reading between the lines can help, even though I may be grasping at straws.

Nevertheless, that Jack can fully encapsulate differing interpretations is a testament to the writing in either case.  We won't be getting this kind of in-depth analysis on any other character's thread.  Low on fan-art, high on interpretation.  Ladies and gentlemen, the coolest thread on the BioWare forums.

[Jackal904]

royceclemens wrote...

Well, I'm in the middle of a playthrough right now, and after the Murtock conversation, she says something to the effect of "I told you this wouldn't work out.  We'll end up hurt, or you'll sleep around, or I'll end up killing you or something."
I think it's that last part that brought me around to my interpretation.  She said she might kill him, but she didn't necessarily say she was going to be the one pulling the trigger.  Beng as she just finished a monologue about about how her affections got someone killed, that's what I thought she meant.

I just had this conversation with her yesterday, and I redid it a few times to explore every dialogue option. If you choose the renegade option at that point in the conversation, she says that she is pushing you away because she doesn't want to get you killed. She states it plain and clear.

This is probably a big reason why she approaches sex so casually. She doesn't want any feelings involved because she doesn't want to get attached to people and then lose them.

Nevertheless, that Jack can fully encapsulate differing interpretations is a testament to the writing in either case.  We won't be getting this kind of in-depth analysis on any other character's thread.  Low on fan-art, high on interpretation.  Ladies and gentlemen, the coolest thread on the BioWare forums.

Haha I agree. There is more substance in these 35 pages than in the 1000+ page Tali thread.

[royceclemens]

She actually point-blank SAID it in the Renegade option? And here I was thinking I was being all awesome and original. Now I feel like a fraud. A big fat sexy FRAUD!

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

Nevertheless, that Jack can fully encapsulate differing interpretations is a testament to the writing in either case.  We won't be getting this kind of in-depth analysis on any other character's thread.  Low on fan-art, high on interpretation.  Ladies and gentlemen, the coolest thread on the BioWare forums.

Haha I agree. There is more substance in these 35 pages than in the 1000+ page Tali thread.

There's a lot less hearts and flowers here, mind you

Oh, here's the original text from that thread I mentioned... the whole 'why do we have so many squad mates when all I ever use is Jack & Grunt?' question - just my take and how it might reflect on the third episode...

And yep - Wall o' Text Warning in full, DEFCON 2 effect

This whole idea of varying numbers of survivors got me thinking of potential consequences in ME3... I've played ME1 through a couple of times to make more Sheps, and the Vermire mission got me thinking: what if the survivors of ME2 could leave you to bolster forces in the upcoming final battle?

Say you play through ME2 and you save about two-thirds of the squad. Unless Bioware throw us a total curveball the last chapter is going to be mustering the disparate forces of the galaxy to face the Reapers. You pick up a couple of newcomer squad members to fill up numbers, along with the ME1 love interests (newcomers wil bolster squad numbers for people playing through after the death of Shepard/new players, and for sake of what I'm about to hypothesize, I'm leaving Wrex on Tuchanka). You play a few missions, then the Council/Anderson/TIM/whoever gets you on the comm and says that the Reaper's army of the week is assailing Planet X - the squad goes to investigate.

You get there - we'll say Planet X this turn is Tuchanka. Wrex is mustering the Krogan for an almighty ground war, and he asks Shep to be his second-in-command. Shep however can't, because he has to go behind enemy lines and liberate the Reaper's poorly defended supply of unobtanium/battle plans/kidnapped civilians/Urz the Varren/delete as applicable. Wrex still needs someone to help out. Grunt's the obvious choice - if he survived ME2. Or you can put someone else in. Or you can tell him to go it alone.

Each character has, much the same as ME2's squad has the invisible hold-the-line quotient, a value for certain missions. In this situation, Grunt might help Wrex score an almighty victory, further cementing his place in the clan. Or Wrex might die, and Grunt becomes the next to hold the throne on Tuchanka. Or a dozen other things. Either way, he might leave the squad for the rest of the game. Putting someone else in his place might just result in the detachment not following orders and getting massacred, telling Wrex to go it alone might result in Wrex biting the big one... you get the idea.

As Shep hops around doing his missions to find the weak spot in the Reapers assault/find the Anti-Reapers/meet the Prothean deus-ex-machina that's been hiding on the Citadel all along, other forces might need to borrow a squad member, potentially keeping them, losing them due to them having to continue the work there, or failure through sending the wrong person resulting in a death/weakening of an army in the final confrontation. Ideal examples might be Tali needs to fill her father's place on the Admiralty Board, Mordin needs to do some bio-science on/for the Rachni, Legion has to reassume control of a shedload of Geth Admiral Xen has reprogrammed, Ash/Kaidan has to convince Hackett to move the Alliance fleet to these co-ordinates... others can try, but the ideal squad member will result in a higher bonus in the final battle.

When Shep reaches the end and has to somehow get inside Harbinger to upload the virus/activate the Halo... I mean Citadel/set up the dark-matter supernova bomb/whatever, you have a core of remaining squad members, the rest add a bonus to the massive battle that wages on while Shep makes like Frodo and throws the proverbial Ring into Mount Doom. All those bonuses come in again, dictating which fleets survive, which are vaped, which do the most damage, etc.

Someone playing through with no Shep would just have a baseline where a skin-of-the-teeth victory is possible based on success in the squad-based missions, but everyone in the final assault will suffer horrific losses/result in political instability/whatever. Where survivors have bolstered the odds, there are better results (Grunt becomes king, Wrex joins the Council, Legion brings peace between the Geth and Quarians, you go build that house on the homeworld for Tali, or just keep kicking the bad guys into line as the baddest Spectre ever, or whatever floats your boat in this situation - or maybe Shep does an ultimate sacrifice thing and everyone dies but the universe is a better place... blah blah blah)

This is all just off the top of my head, so forgive any enormous holes in logic, but my point is this - could this potentially be the kind of reason we might have to keep folk alive in the next game?

Modifié par Mondo47, 04 mars 2010 - 08:45 .

[Jackal904]

royceclemens wrote...

She actually point-blank SAID it in the Renegade option? And here I was thinking I was being all awesome and original. Now I feel like a fraud. A big fat sexy FRAUD!

Lol ya she does.


@Mondo

We have so many squadmates because we need them for the final mission. I think that's pretty much it haha. Of course I'm sure the number of surviving squadmates will have some affect on ME3. But I think the main reason is that Shepard simply needs a good amount of people for the final mission.

Modifié par Jackal904, 04 mars 2010 - 04:59 .