20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

I think the Illusive Man figured Shepard could do with the strongest biotics he could find. And Samara and Jack are two biotics with drastically different styles. Disregarding they ended up being used for the biotic shield, they provide Shepard with two different options should the need for a biotic arise. If he needs finesse, he's got Samara. If he needs pure hell raised, he has Jack. That's actually why I felt there should have been a "Bat**** Crazy Soldier" role during the suicide mission, as it gives an opportunity to use Jack's biotics differently. So anyway, two strong biotics, two different styles, the Illusive Man covers the bases.

[Goat_Shepard]

Haha, ignore my wall'o'text, I frequently like to vent. I think I'll like it here, where that Jack group at?

@york very interesting. I wonder why Samara is an option, since she has a very strange story arch that Bioware could have easily written off. The fact you can kill Samara for Morinth sort of increases Jack's value, and you can never have too many biotics. Perhaps there's a renegade/paragon reason in that TIM is ensuring you have someone to hold the shield, giving you a powerful Paragon and Renegade biotic, just in case Shepard can't trust them or loses their loyalty.

Hmm...this requires an epic Jack screencap.

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...

I think the Illusive Man figured Shepard could do with the strongest biotics he could find. And Samara and Jack are two biotics with drastically different styles. Disregarding they ended up being used for the biotic shield, they provide Shepard with two different options should the need for a biotic arise. If he needs finesse, he's got Samara. If he needs pure hell raised, he has Jack. That's actually why I felt there should have been a "Bat**** Crazy Soldier" role during the suicide mission, as it gives an opportunity to use Jack's biotics differently. So anyway, two strong biotics, two different styles, the Illusive Man covers the bases.

First person I thought of was Jack when I heard "distraction" in "distraction team leader". Then I thought Zaeed. Oh well. Start - Load.

I will note that besides the specialists, your squaddies are extremely important in that suicide mission. Having Jack and Zaeed fighting with me trying to open those vents was a huge help, but some congratulations or gratitude to ALL the squaddies you choose would have added that much more sentimental value to the people you've bled with and for.

"Jack and Zaeed, thanks for that cover, I wouldn't have made it to that last vent without you."

Or something.

[Pacifien]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
*snip*
Anyways, I find it interesting you write Jack romance FF but haven't romanced her lol unless you mean just normal epic FF, which is all good she's the most dynamic of all the LI and people in general, so endless possibilities for FF are presented.

Oh, I don't write romances! I write all the other dark tales of Jack's life. Being torn away from her mother as a toddler to be taken to a Cerberus facility. Her first foray into the makeshift arena at Teltin where she had to fight the other children. How she escaped slavery. Though I have some partially written story in a notebook where she's on the Presidium with Shepard and she's going to convince him to either dive in the lake or climb a tree. I don't think Shepard's Spectre status is going to save him from the groundskeeper.

Goat_Shepard wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...
All we see is the screw ups of Cerberus.  So the assumption is that they are inept.  I am not sure if the writers intended to leave this impression that strongly about Cerberus.  I tend to think that it is just a by-product of how the story is written.  I have read statements from others calling it lazy writing.

It seems like 75% of Cerby's organizations are "rogue", which doesn't make them rogue at all, does it? This makes me think TIM purposefully does this like Pacifien said. But like you said, he installed stupid incompetence to run each facility, and they all failed. That, or the experiments Cerby was demanding were too extreme, or didn't provide them with the right equipment.

I never truly believe in Cerberus cells going rogue. The fact we see so many of them going to extremes to produce results seems to indicate that...
1) The Illusive Man is really unforgiving. Not just shut your project down, but, like, kill you maybe.
2) The Illusive Man recruits a certain kind of person for these jobs, ones who are probably on the fence regarding ethics to start with.

And I don't think Cerberus is, ah, completely inept. Reckless with lives. Lacking decent scientific methods. Results at all cost. Ideally, when they get it right, Shepard will never know about it because he isn't being called in to fix their mess. But that does mean, since Shepard is sent in to fix their mess, that all Shepard is going to see is one epic fail of an organization.

I hear Mordin's voice in my head. "Too much Cerberus talk. Not enough Jack. Potential for thread derailment of several pages!"

Did I ever mention that I knew I would love the character of Jack because the first words out of her mouth were anti-Cerberus? That's my girl.

[axl99]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Nice edit and comparison. Why take off your text, though? I was curious for an answer from axl, too

After re-reading Axl's statement, I believe he means that the end result of the CGI is so impressive, that Blur must have enjoyed doing it,  for it to turn out that flawless.  Is that right Axl?  Or is there something about the Jack model in itself that you think inspired Blur to enjoy it so much?

I'm actually female but that's irrelevant.

Personally I'd say it's a combination of both. Plenty of artist types like myself - by that I mean artist buddies of mine - would gravitate towards the finer points in Jack's design, Matt Rhodes notwithstanding.  The belt bra I'm sure is mostly there to show off as much of the tats as possible, if Matt had is way I bet he'd have her topless.

Jack looks and is written to come off as a real person, so we feel that gravitas when we look at her. I like to see it as Blur trying to one up that in their rendition especially with the script they've been given. They've done it before with Leliana and Morrigan in the DA:O trailers. This is them going nuts on something they rarely get to do: badass semi-unhinged femme fatales with loads and loads of personality.

The CGI trailer practically had better lighting, shader work, and composed shots than the other FTL trailers I've seen. Even her model was handled with more care because they really needed to make sure the facial mocap worked out in the final cut.

There's also tons of little materials they got to play around with in the trailer. That stuff is just as important to make models look "convincing". Jack's hair fuzz, the contrast of light between her tats and her skin, the leather vest she wore with all the tiny belt buckles, her biotic amp, her shimmering  make-up, the way light plays across her eyes.

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...

snp

I'm actually brand new here, so my opinion of off-topicness is slightly biased. Cerberus, and how they run organizations, IMO is related to Jack, directly or indirectly. This right now is broadening my perspective of Jack, and I'm lovin it!

The way you describe TIM's methods, it seems he just throws money at people and gives them orders that they'll follow to their deaths. He's a renegade, taking chances because he..can? Or knows he will get a result?

On Pragia: Do the dangerous experiment in a remote place with limited guards. Jack gets away before the experiment is finished, but that means she's powerful enough to get away, and he can use her. I still don't think that's a good method. I'm sure if he installed a Miranda at every facility, he wouldn't have nearly as many problems. Lazy writing, maybe, or they simply have to have Cerby be like a joke in order to give you tons of side missions lol

[Pacifien]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
As far as Jack goes, it really would have been nice if we could have got some unique dialog from her at the end of Overlord concerning that whole operation that was going on.  Bioware really missed a great oppurtunity there.  Understandable, but missed nonethess. 

I'm reluctant to start an entirely different thread about it, because I fear it would derail into comments about the lack of squad banter in general, but I've wanted to see what people thought should have been the reaction of various squadmates to what was going on during Overlord. And their reaction if you went paragon or renegade in the end.

Unfortunately, the reaction can't be as extreme as, say, Samara immediately tearing out Shepard's heart the second he agrees to the renegade path. Or losing faith in Shepard completely. 'Cause realistically, I think if Shepard had gone the renegade path, someone like Jack would have lost faith in him completely.

So more general. Miranda telling Archer the Illusive Man would have never allowed David to be used to such an extent with Archer retorting that she doesn't know the Illusive Man as well as she thinks. Jack questioning Shepard's continued cooperation with Cerberus after seeing what they continue to do long past her Teltin days. Actually, unlike the Cerberus base decision where some squadmates actually tell Shepard to consider keeping the base, I wonder if any of the squadmates would have approved of what was being done to David.

I think that's actually part of the point of the renegade path, that no one would ever actively approve of what was being done, but some will sacrifice their own soul and damn another human being if it meant saving a million more. Even Archer in the end admits it was unethical, but he wanted to continue with it. So yeah, nothing but disapproval from the squadmates, because this was never their task to solve.

So what would Jack say at various points? Anger at Archer. Demanding answers from Shepard. Approving the paragon path. Huge argument with Shepard if he took the renegade path, though probably ending with Shepard saying he has to do whatever it takes to defeat the Reapers and all their allies. Telling Jack he knows she'll never agree, but she never saw what he saw in that beacon.

*starts scribbling notes*
Great. Even though I never took the renegade path, I see myself writing a story about it anyway.

[Gethforceone]

Ok, four things I'd like to say.

1. I agree with York about the biotic amp needed for Jack,  she's powerful enough to hold the field without it.
2. I like Pacifien's view on Murtock best.
3. I don't think Cerburus sucks as moch as we think, I think we only hear what they wnat us to hear.
4. Yes Goat, that's any awesome picture.

[Goat_Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

axl99 wrote...
I'm actually female but that's irrelevant.

My apologies axl. One of the rare times that I actually make that blind assumption in a post, and I am incorrect.  You never know do you?  Well I will remember next time.

Me too lol could always check the poster's profile but...who does that? EDIT apparently you do lol And I think I'll rewatch that trailer meticulously now. All it takes is a good synopsis and I'm hooked on something I had only minor interest in before

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Why would TIM need to have plausible deniability?  He is up to his neck into it as it is.  Sure it is a good idea to cover you're back, but he has to have a pretty well functioning organization, or it is almost useless.  Information is one of his specialties. 

In order to accomplish anything significant as an organization, the player has to assume that Cerberus is accomplishing quite a lot behind the scenes that we are not aware of.  That has to be the case, because if it wasn't, then Cerberus wouldn't make any progress hardly at all, while wasting billions of credits.  He has to place competent people in certain postions of authority over various projects.  People that will not screw it up and fail in whatever project or operation they are involved in.  Cerberus wouldn't be the threat that they are if this wasn't the case.

As far as Jack goes, it really would have been nice if we could have got some unique dialog from her at the end of Overlord concerning that whole operation that was going on.  Bioware really missed a great oppurtunity there.  Understandable, but missed nonethess. 

Have they been "successful" with anything or anyone but Jack (and Shepard)? As presented in-game, of course. Information is his speciality, but that doesn't necessarily mean good business management. They're a discrete organization, there must be a price to pay for that.

And I haven't played the DLC yet, nice to know to not get my hopes up for squad dialogue to be added to pretty much any DLC. I'll throw my money in the big hole anyways, though

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 24 juin 2010 - 07:05 .

[Pacifien]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
I'm actually brand new here, so my opinion of off-topicness is slightly biased. Cerberus, and how they run organizations, IMO is related to Jack, directly or indirectly. This right now is broadening my perspective of Jack, and I'm lovin it!

The way you describe TIM's methods, it seems he just throws money at people and gives them orders that they'll follow to their deaths. He's a renegade, taking chances because he..can? Or knows he will get a result?

On Pragia: Do the dangerous experiment in a remote place with limited guards. Jack gets away before the experiment is finished, but that means she's powerful enough to get away, and he can use her. I still don't think that's a good method. I'm sure if he installed a Miranda at every facility, he wouldn't have nearly as many problems. Lazy writing, maybe, or they simply have to have Cerby be like a joke in order to give you tons of side missions lol

Oh, every thread goes off topic now and then. I don't always have a problem with that when I know the participants will get it back on track eventually. Always amused when the people on the Garrus thread will write a huge amount of text that has nothing to do about Garrus or Turians, but end it with "Oh yeah. Garrus." I know that doesn't qualify as being on-topic, but shows they always know why they're really there on that thread.

I don't think the Illusive Man meant for Jack to escape. It's just when experiments go wrong, he's not going to call a clean slate. In Overlord, he mentions using what research they've gained from the project even though it ended in catastrophic failure. The Derelict Reaper project also ends in catastrophic failure, but it's okay in the end because he salvaged the IFF from it. And the Teltin project ends in catastrophic failure, but rather than ignore Subject Zero's escape, he simply waits for a chance to use her should the situation arise. Plus, I imagine he did use some of the research from Teltin when Cerberus infiltrated the Ascension Project.

It reminds me of the Patriarch and Aria. He wasn't the kingpin of Omega anymore, and he felt his life should have ended the day of their fight. But he says Aria doesn't toss aside a resource she knows she can use. I feel the Illusive Man is the same way. I just think he's incredibly cunning, but he's not about to tell Shepard about all his other secret projects that are working out fine. Shepard can be all "see, your geth project was FAIL" and the Illusive Man is chuckling to himself because he hasn't told him about his indoctrination project that is WIN!

I'm speculating.

I also made a promise that I'd go to be before dawn, so I should, like, do that.

[Goat_Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@axl
You're painting Samara?  Would you be interested in sharing it with the Samaratians in the Samara
thread when you are finished?

Samaratians! 

I'm interested as well.

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Pacifien
It's not going to kill the thread to talk a little about Cerberus.   I included Jack in my post, but you totally disregarded everything else.  The mods are not going to close this thread down if it drifts a little off from time to time.  As long as it isn't a multitude of continuous pages without Jack being discussed in them.

Indeed that is the rule of the Woo. Know this, though, I don't think you have to worry about much as long as the Tali thread is still going. If the mods have a double-standard because of the speed at which is grows, then there will be some serious revisioning on these forums. I'll make it my life's goal.

3 pages without Jack, though? That's shameful across any support thread.


I know, I'd be appalled, too, Jack

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 24 juin 2010 - 07:13 .

[Pacifien]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
@Pacifien
It's not going to kill the thread to talk a little about Cerberus.   I included Jack in my post, but you totally disregarded everything else.  The mods are not going to close this thread down if it drifts a little off from time to time.  As long as it isn't a multitude of continuous pages without Jack being discussed in them.

I don't think it's going to kill a thread, it's just I've talked about Cerberus at length elsewhere. I could go on for pages about it. I'm holding myself back, not trying to tell others they need to do the same.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to come across as disregarding all of your post. I respond to what I have a response to. That's not to say I agree or disagree with what I didn't respond to, it's just I don't have anything to add at that particular time.

[HighMoon]

Anyone have a clue what Jack's 'ear piece' thingie is?

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...
snp
I'm speculating.

I also made a promise that I'd go to be before dawn, so I should, like, do that.

Your posts are full of win, my friend. Great read. The "oh, and Garrus" is a good explanation. Everyone comes here with a purpose, to support their game/characters, and enjoy the community that is built through the common adoration of the characters and aspects of the game.

I know there's plenty of plot holes and nonsensical things in ME, but it's nice to know TIM is good enough as a villain (if he's worthy of the term). I hate him, so he must be a villain.

Golden-Rose wrote...

Anyone have a clue what Jack's 'ear
piece' thingie is?

No idea. It reaks of Egyptian jewelry though. I love it.

[stupid gamer speculation] what if half her ear is fake and she replaced it with gold! [/stupid gamer speculation]

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 24 juin 2010 - 07:25 .

[Pacifien]

Golden-Rose wrote...
Anyone have a clue what Jack's 'ear piece' thingie is?

A decorative transmission device, I'm guessing.

Though I once speculated it was also an iPod and Jack would pick out music that best suits the type of combat she happens to be in at the time. Like thrash metal when going up against a krogan. Techno when it's Eclipse.

[Pacifien]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Your posts are full of win, my friend.*snip*

I win the Internet!

*does a victory parade lap around the thread before heading out for the night*

[Gethforceone]

I always thought it was some kind of biotic amp.

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...

Golden-Rose wrote...
Anyone have a clue what Jack's 'ear piece' thingie is?

A decorative transmission device, I'm guessing.

Though I once speculated it was also an iPod and Jack would pick out music that best suits the type of combat she happens to be in at the time. Like thrash metal when going up against a krogan. Techno when it's Eclipse.

Haha! Don't go to bed, man! Stay!

That reminded me of Jessica Biel in Blade, she did the same thing when they went to battle. Would do the same, only on some kind of loudspeaker. For the squad, of course

[Goat_Shepard]

@Johnny indeed, I'm happy Cerby is discrete enough that we don't know what else is going on, and they're renegade enough that you don't know what was a freak accident and what was just sloppy work. It's easy to believe one thing or the other, but overall the organization isn't a failure, even if many many fans believe they are clowns.

And I'm not sure exactly what they were intending to use Jack for, but she ended up being quite useful to TIM. "Success" was not the word I should have used, though. Now I feel sad.

JohnnyDollar wrote...
We have Jack content in these last three pages.  It just isn't 100% all Jack.../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

Bawww. lol seriously don't worry, this is a highly successful thread from what I've read.

Gethforceone wrote...

I always thought it was some kind of biotic amp.

So yet another character with mental and physical aspects that you'll never truly know even after months of discussion.

This is my kind of place

I should go, too, though. I hear the bird's chirping outside so I spose it must be morning.


Later ya little b!tch. You too, Miranda.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 24 juin 2010 - 07:44 .