20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

NICKjnp wrote...
Just post a Jack picture... to make it "on topic."

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
From what I understand, Mordin was at one point in development going to be a biotic.

I think Ecael found some dialogue even of Mordin trying to hold the Biotic Shield?

Really? Interesting. Given Mordin's speech style, I'd love to hear it.

It'd be interesting if Mordin's and Thane's powers were switched. Based on how Thane was introduced during E3 a couple years ago, I would have never thought he'd also be a biotic. Tech skills, yes. Biotic, no.

I found Thane's current combat skills to be strange. No pistol and no cloaking, despite the fact that he has shown skill with both.

I suspect that the developers actually started working on the details of the suicide mission first and then worked backwards from there. Which is why some people wonder why certain characters couldn't do certain roles. Or why certain characters would be switched at the last minute...

Aside from the "Hold the Line" phase, which I never liked, I found the roles in the suicide mission to be fine (pf the phases that are available).
For the tech specialist role, only Kasumi, Tali, and Legion really fit. Mordin is a doctor rather than a computer hacker. Garrus has some tech skill but not on the level of the three I listed. Jacob just wants to volunteer...

For the team leader role, Garrus was the only one that truly convinced me, but Miranda and Jacob were "fine" too I guess. To be specific, I found there to be far too little indication that Jacob could be a competent team leader (prior to the suicide mission and them telling the player he is). Miranda is a little more believable given her class skill and her apparent experience in managing projects (which isn't the same, of course).

Zaeed - He has experience fighting under his belt, but the only time he mentions leading a team was an instance in which his entire team was killed.

Samara - Justicars work solo most of the time, it seems.

I list those two because they seem to be the most used squad mates for the team leader roles as people thought they would be good because Miranda said "inspire loyalty from experience."

Everyone else does not really have experience leading a squad effectively.

What I would wished would have been the ability to assign vanguard or tank for the hold the line portion. Also, that Thane and Mordin would have been better used in the suicide mission. An assassination phase would have been great.


Oh and here's a picture of Jack...the filename is "jack_awesome.png"

[Mondo47]

Jackal904 wrote...

Look how easily Shepard kills Wrex. Not only does he have the reaction time of a sloth, but one smack and he's out. I don't think Jack would have a problem killing Wrex.

Now everyone knows how hot I am for krogan, but seriously, looking at this from a purely realistic angle, not the way sh*t goes down in a cutscene, your average krogan outweighs a human by the best part of 500lbs. It has dermal and subdermal armour, backup circulatory and nervous systems, a heavyweight skeletal system, a respiratory system that laughs at things that would asphixiate or poison a human in seconds, exteme tolerance to heat and cold, and more muscle mass than at least three large humans combined. On top of all that, krogan live for centuries, allowing hundreds of years of training and experience to accumulate. Sure, they're slow, but you just try and put a rhino on its ass with a poxy little 9mm pistol; unless you hit something soft, it's going to grind you into human-paste. Now give the rhino telekenisis, a more developed brain, experience going back to 1743 and a shotgun. Your little hunting trip is going to end spectacularly quickly, as is any human occupation of territory rhinos might live in. Never mind those sneaky fookin' prawns, it's the gun-toing rhinos you have to worry about in Africa now!

That scene is lousy supporting evidence, Jack, gotta be said. Based on my experience of Wrex in-game, he never fell in combat once. And that's in 11 seperate playthroughs

True, a lot of folk say Jack is a suicide machine (in game at least), and yes, she is sometimes, but once again, from a realistic perspective, she's run with dozens of different criminal groups. It's not inconceivable that she has experience with a plethora of weapons and vehicles, to a degree that is well beyond casual use. If she had no experience with battlefield tactics and planning, she'd be dead by now (look at the training modern real-world terrorist groups have - surely if they had no useful and formalised training, our military might would have stamped out any and all resistance in our contemporary warzones - this is blatantly not so). In some cases, her practical experience may well rival military training, and encompass things will outside the sphere of formal military training. She has a built in survival instinct thanks to an exceptionally hard upbringing, and has been conditioned to enjoy combat. She also has phenomenally potent telekinetic powers; ones that put potentially every other member of her species to shame. She is though no physically stronger than a similarly conditioned normal human. She has not much over a decade's worth of experience (if her assumed age of early-twenties is correct), though it has been amazingly compressed.

Going back to realistic terms, any human in a standup fight against any krogan is almost certain to lose. Once you add special things to formula (Wrex's field experience, Jack's telekinesis, etc.) the sum gets much more complex. At the end of the day, though, all we can do is guess. There can never be a cut and dry answer; that can only come if you either try to answer the question by either a) isolating your factors to game mechanics or taking your information from a realistic, extrapolated source. And even then, the final answer will be subject to interpretation.

That's why I say Jack and Wrex wouldn't fight - figuring out conclusively who would win such a battle is too tough for my fwagile wittle mind

[Epantiras]

Jack VS Wrex would be like dividing by zero.



No pun intended.



/discussion ;-)

[Homebound]

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

[NICKjnp]

I would prefer to see a fight between Wrex and Samara anywase.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 04 juillet 2010 - 07:51 .

[Mondo47]

Just_mike wrote...

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

Wrex quoting Juggy... somehow that amuses me greatly

"Whoa, they's shootin' me! Are you some kinda f*ckin' ass? Do you not know who I am? They must not know who I am - I'm Urdnot Wrex, b*tch! Yeah, I'll hit ya wit' ya own Asari commandos!"

[Dominus5412]

I'll beat the **** out of you Wreav, I'll beat the **** out of you WITH Wreav!

[Epantiras]

Just_mike wrote...

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

The first time I did the Derelict Reaper mission I had Miranda, Grunt and the portable Nuke. Result: we got mobbed, I fired the nuke and killed Miranda and Grunt with it. On the other hand, husks/pretorians/abominations survived and mobbed me again.

The second time, I took Jack, Thane and the Zap Zap electrical gun (can't remembre the name). Result: Jack wiped out everything on our path, but was always killed during her cooldown periods v_v

Screenshot:



THE SCION HAD REACH...
... BUT JACK HAD FLEXIBILITY!!!

[Homebound]

Epantiras wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

The first time I did the Derelict Reaper mission I had Miranda, Grunt and the portable Nuke. Result: we got mobbed, I fired the nuke and killed Miranda and Grunt with it. On the other hand, husks/pretorians/abominations survived and mobbed me again.

The second time, I took Jack, Thane and the Zap Zap electrical gun (can't remembre the name). Result: Jack wiped out everything on our path, but was always killed during her cooldown periods v_v

Screenshot:



THE SCION HAD REACH...
... BUT JACK HAD FLEXIBILITY!!!

Arc Projector is good vs husks.  When Jack is cooling down, send her back and use the Arc projector.

EDIT: That reminds me when I did the mission, I took Tali and Garrus via Hardcore mode. They worked surprisingly well actually.  I had the Nuke gun with me, but I had used the Heavy in the last mission so I was running empty. By the time I got to the room, I had 80% ammo...That sucked so bad.

Modifié par Just_mike, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:17 .

[Epantiras]

Just_mike wrote...

Arc Projector is good vs husks.  When Jack is cooling down, send her back and use the Arc projector.

EDIT: That reminds me when I did the mission, I took Tali and Garrus via Hardcore mode. They worked surprisingly well actually.  I had the Nuke gun with me, but I had used the Heavy in the last mission so I was running empty. By the time I got to the room, I had 80% ammo...That sucked so bad.

The Nuke gun can destroy the Reaper Core in one shot, the other heavy weapons do not :-( the Arch Projector is great against moobs but the Nuke makes the final fight ridiculously (typo?) easy... ah, tough choices!!

[NICKjnp]

Epantiras wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

The first time I did the Derelict Reaper mission I had Miranda, Grunt and the portable Nuke. Result: we got mobbed, I fired the nuke and killed Miranda and Grunt with it. On the other hand, husks/pretorians/abominations survived and mobbed me again.

The second time, I took Jack, Thane and the Zap Zap electrical gun (can't remembre the name). Result: Jack wiped out everything on our path, but was always killed during her cooldown periods v_v

Screenshot:



THE SCION HAD REACH...
... BUT JACK HAD FLEXIBILITY!!!

...BUT GRUNT HAS REACH, FLEXIBLITY AND STRENGTH!!!!!!!!

Modifié par NICKjnp, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:29 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Just_mike wrote...

Wrex occasionally ate a rocket for me in ME1. So did Jack in ME2. The only difference was Wrex walked out of it alive. He'd be like "Haha, silly chaps, your rockets cannot harm me, Im a krogan b*tch!"

That's what she should have looked like comming out of cryo then shaved once she was on the ship.

[Jackal904]

NICKjnp wrote...

@Jackal904

Come on... this is you being a fan of the character.  As we all know Shepard is unstoppable.  Also... it is a cutscene where the the option is "kill wrex".  Shepard could do the same thing if there was an option for a convo with Jack that says "kill Jack".  Jack is squishy and Wrex, being a Krogan battlemaste, is not.  Wrex was the toughest squadmate from the first game.  Only a Solier Shepard with barrier as a bonus power had more defenses.  I like both Jack and Wrex... but Wrex has both biotic strength and, more importantly, he has experience that Jack does not have.  Jack vs. Miranda... Jack all the way.  Jack vs. Wrex... it's going to be Wrex.

The real debate should be who would win a fight that is Samara vs. Wrex.

I am not being biased, trust me. I honestly believe Jack would beat Wrex in a fight. Defense is not everything. You fight krogan battlemasters throughout the game, so that doesn't really mean much other than he's a tougher than usually krogan. Yes Wrex has biotics, but they are nothing compared to Jack's. Maybe you think Wrex would win because you are more a fan of Wrex.

[NICKjnp]

Jackal904 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

@Jackal904

Come on... this is you being a fan of the character.  As we all know Shepard is unstoppable.  Also... it is a cutscene where the the option is "kill wrex".  Shepard could do the same thing if there was an option for a convo with Jack that says "kill Jack".  Jack is squishy and Wrex, being a Krogan battlemaste, is not.  Wrex was the toughest squadmate from the first game.  Only a Solier Shepard with barrier as a bonus power had more defenses.  I like both Jack and Wrex... but Wrex has both biotic strength and, more importantly, he has experience that Jack does not have.  Jack vs. Miranda... Jack all the way.  Jack vs. Wrex... it's going to be Wrex.

The real debate should be who would win a fight that is Samara vs. Wrex.

I am not being biased, trust me. I honestly believe Jack would beat Wrex in a fight. Defense is not everything. You fight krogan battlemasters throughout the game, so that doesn't really mean much other than he's a tougher than usually krogan. Yes Wrex has biotics, but they are nothing compared to Jack's. Maybe you think Wrex would win because you are more a fan of Wrex.

I'm a fan of both.  I'm going to defer to Mondo's post though... Wrex is like an inteligent Rhino with biotics and centuries of combat experience.

However:  In the interest of peace and the fact that I like both of them... lets direct this discussion towards something more fun... like Jack being the all powerful biotic b*tch that she is.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:56 .

[Jackal904]

Mondo47 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Look how easily Shepard kills Wrex. Not only does he have the reaction time of a sloth, but one smack and he's out. I don't think Jack would have a problem killing Wrex.

your average krogan outweighs a human by the best part of 500lbs. It has dermal and subdermal armour, backup circulatory and nervous systems, a heavyweight skeletal system, a respiratory system that laughs at things that would asphixiate or poison a human in seconds, exteme tolerance to heat and cold, and more muscle mass than at least three large humans combined. On top of all that, krogan live for centuries, allowing hundreds of years of training and experience to accumulate. Sure, they're slow, but you just try and put a rhino on its ass with a poxy little 9mm pistol; unless you hit something soft, it's going to grind you into human-paste. Now give the rhino telekenisis, a more developed brain, experience going back to 1743 and a shotgun. Your little hunting trip is going to end spectacularly quickly, as is any human occupation of territory rhinos might live in. Never mind those sneaky fookin' prawns, it's the gun-toing rhinos you have to worry about in Africa now!

Like every enemy krogan that we fight and kill in the game? Wrex is a krogan battlemaster, we have killed many krogan battlemasters in the game. The only thing that seperates Wrex from the other battlemasters is that Wrex ran with Shepard for a little while. There is nothing else extra special about Wrex. We did not recruit him because he was an extraordinarily powerful krogan. We recruited him just because krogan in general are strong and Wrex had a  common enemy with Shepard.

Don't get me wrong, Wrex is awesome. He is my favorite character in ME1. But Wrex is not an out the ordinary juggernaut. He is a typical krogan battlemaster in terms of strength and combat experience. And like I've said, we've killed many krogan battlemasters in both ME1 and ME2.

That scene is lousy supporting evidence, Jack, gotta be said. Based on my experience of Wrex in-game, he never fell in combat once. And that's in 11 seperate playthroughs

That is also lousy supporting evidence. We all know real-time combat is an unreliable source of information in a discussion like this. In ME1, every biotic has barrier as far as I remember. Barrier in ME1 was incredibly powerful, and any teammate with it could take a lot of damage. If Jack was in ME1 I'm sure she would have a powerful barrier ability, more so than Wrex. Plus the ability immunity existed in ME1, which was also incredible powerful and could also take a lot of damage. So of course Wrex is going to stay alive longer in ME1 than Jack will in ME2, because Wrex had abilities that don't exist anymore or are no longer as powerful in ME2.

Plus, teammates in general die quicker in ME2 because of the heavy dependency on cover mixed with the unintelligent squad AI where they prefer to stand out in the open and act as meat shields. And there was an overall reduction in shields and health from ME1 to ME2.

Edit: Alright I guess we're moving on to a different discussion. I won't bring up Jack vs. Wrex any more .

Modifié par Jackal904, 04 juillet 2010 - 09:11 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Jackal904 wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

@Jackal904

Come on... this is you being a fan of the character.  As we all know Shepard is unstoppable.  Also... it is a cutscene where the the option is "kill wrex".  Shepard could do the same thing if there was an option for a convo with Jack that says "kill Jack".  Jack is squishy and Wrex, being a Krogan battlemaste, is not.  Wrex was the toughest squadmate from the first game.  Only a Solier Shepard with barrier as a bonus power had more defenses.  I like both Jack and Wrex... but Wrex has both biotic strength and, more importantly, he has experience that Jack does not have.  Jack vs. Miranda... Jack all the way.  Jack vs. Wrex... it's going to be Wrex.

The real debate should be who would win a fight that is Samara vs. Wrex.

I am not being biased, trust me. I honestly believe Jack would beat Wrex in a fight. Defense is not everything. You fight krogan battlemasters throughout the game, so that doesn't really mean much other than he's a tougher than usually krogan. Yes Wrex has biotics, but they are nothing compared to Jack's. Maybe you think Wrex would win because you are more a fan of Wrex.

Wrex is the only one powerful enough to keep other Krogan leaders in line to do something they don't want to. Some of that is personality but a lot of it is knocking heads together.

On top of his superior battle skills, massive experience, and natural endurance He's a biotic user too which, even though they don't make it clear how powerful Krogan Biotics are, at the least goes a long way to neutralizing Jack's one ace card, he was able to hold his own against an Asari biotic after all.
Jack is good, but she's not even one of your toughest squad members. She is possibly the most powerful human biotic, but humans are still new to that game.

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Is the internet fight over?

We're not fighting, it's just debating. Nothing offensive was involved. Is that not what forums are about?

[NICKjnp]

yorkj86 wrote...

Is the internet fight over?

Space Ghost!!!!
I also like this one...

/uploads_user/6000/5109/32743.gif

[Andaius20]

Bring in the Jack smooch to distract everyone.

[axl99]

Best kiss scene in the Mass Effect universe.

[Mondo47]

Dawwwwww! Can't go wrong with smoochin'