20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

yorkj86 wrote...
The consensus was that it wouldn't hurt her character if it was done competently. The rest of the debate was heated, at best, with many opinions being represented.

This program does not approve of the conclusions of the rest of the Geth collective. We lack consensus. There is only one option: there will be a schism where this Heretic will go forth from the Perseus Veil and destroy all the organics out there until they accept the bisexual truth.

[Mondo47]

Pacifien wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
The consensus was that it wouldn't hurt her character if it was done competently. The rest of the debate was heated, at best, with many opinions being represented.

This program does not approve of the conclusions of the rest of the Geth collective. We lack consensus. There is only one option: there will be a schism where this Heretic will go forth from the Perseus Veil and destroy all the organics out there until they accept the bisexual truth.

Arf arf arf, you silly Geth you

Just for my capsule version, I have no problem with any character being bisexual (not that I could have a problem with that^_^ ), but with Jack, because of her appearance, attitude and general presentation in the game it would walk a very fine line between working and falling head first in the 'bisexual bad-girl' stereotype. I understand why some people would want it to be, and I have no quibble with that, I just find keeping her hetero avoided that plummet into lost integrity. It's just because of the way Jack is I have to question it. Who knows - if it was done right, maybe I'd have no trouble at all and eat my words, but to quote the President of the Earth "I have a doubt."

[Pacifien]

I can certainly understand avoiding the stereotype with Jack. Oh look, she's got tattoos everywhere, a shaved head, a gruff attitude -- she must be one of them butch lesbians. Oh lord... I take it back, as much as I'd love to see a bisexual Jack, I don't think I could handle the ensuing misconceptions and trolling that would follow.

Pity.

She can be bisexual in my own personal version of Mass Effect.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Even if Bioware did avoid the stereotype pitfall of Jack's character's sexuality, I've heard people bring up other stereotypes instead, and I can't tell which one is more vicious and insulting:

*Jack should be a lesbian or bi because of her physical appearance.
*Jack would be straight because women, like her, who might be sexually confused, only need a strong male figure to "clean her up" (implying tons of unpleasant things about several things).

I **** you not, I've heard both of these.

Anyone who says sh*t like this needs a shovel taking to their kneekaps. Just sayin'

[Pacifien]

The writers have to walk that fine line between providing the players with the entertainment they desire and developing the story the writer wants to tell. I suppose in a video game medium, the pressure is on entertainment and fan service. However, I'm all for writers making an unpopular move with the story or character if they honestly felt that made for a better story. Hopefully the writer is crafty enough to convince the fans that this seemingly unpopular move was right in the end. Most writers aren't.

I'm trying to think of an example from ME2, something that seemed like a horribly bad idea at the time but ended up not being so bad in practice. Maybe it's the introduction of a character like Jack in the first place. I know people (like me) were put off by the stress they put on her "all powerful b*tch" personality at first, only to discover there was a lot more to it than that.

Getting outside of the ME universe, I suppose I could mention the introduction of Boba Fett in Attack of the Clones as a child. Gut reaction? "This is the worst idea since they introduced Anakin as a child." But I ended up quite liking Boba Fett and Jango Fett. That might have been the only thing I liked... Nevermind, that's a terrible example.

[Mondo47]

Pacifien wrote...

Getting outside of the ME universe, I suppose I could mention the introduction of Boba Fett in Attack of the Clones as a child. Gut reaction? "This is the worst idea since they introduced Anakin as a child." But I ended up quite liking Boba Fett and Jango Fett. That might have been the only thing I liked... Nevermind, that's a terrible example.

Just to digress again... when Sam Jackson just contemptuously offed Jango Fett? I was still laughing half an hour later. Has to be one of the greatest examples of "Oh, you think you're a badass? You can't even spell badass." in movie history.

I'm thinking Jack should do something like this with someone that thinks they're a hardcase; biotic lift, every bone in their body snaps, they hit the deck, Jack just shrugs

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Fantasy?  Actually, this was just a fleeting thought that came to me while we were discussing different attire for Jack.  I don't even know how it came to me, it boggles my mind.  Obviously, I would never find something like that attractive.:innocent: 

Hit me baby one more time - with the good stuff

Modifié par Mondo47, 08 juillet 2010 - 07:51 .

[Epantiras]

Jackal904 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Greetings
Jackobites. I'm not a poster on this thread, though I will say that I
like the Jack character for the most part. I have a question for you
die-hard fans, which may have been answered earlier in the thread, but
I'd like your input anyway. In other threads it has been discussed that
Jack should be expanded so that she is available as a love interest for
female Shepards. Do you all agree that this is an acceptable expansion
of the character, or would a bisexual Jack somehow ruin the character
for you?

Oh god not this again. I don't want to sound
like a jerk, but this topic has been debated many times, and it usually
doesn't end nice.

I. Thought. The. Same. Thing :-P

Pacifien wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
The consensus was that it wouldn't hurt her character if it was done competently. The rest of the debate was heated, at best, with many opinions being represented.

This program does not approve of the conclusions of the rest of the Geth collective. We lack consensus. There is only one option: there will be a schism where this Heretic will go forth from the Perseus Veil and destroy all the organics out there until they accept the bisexual truth.

This one Geth known to organics as "Epantiras" cannot even reach consensus within itself.
Please try again later.
It will support both factions until ME3 will give us some answers. :innocent:

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Even if Bioware did avoid the stereotype pitfall of Jack's character's sexuality, I've heard people bring up other stereotypes instead, and I can't tell which one is more vicious and insulting:

*Jack should be a lesbian or bi because of her physical appearance.
*Jack would be straight because women, like her, who might be sexually confused, only need a strong male figure to "clean her up" (implying tons of unpleasant things about several things).

I **** you not, I've heard both of these.

Both of those comments are beyond idiotic. The first one is the big reason why I don't want Jack to be bisexual. She has enough comments hurled at her about being stereotypical, making her bisexual would be throwing salt on the wound. Plus it's nice to see exceptions to stereotypes.

I wonder, if there was a friendship path you could take with Jack as femShep, would so many people still want a Jack/femShep romance? Outside of Mass Effect, you don't need to have a romance with someone in order to be close to them. In Mass Effect, people seem to think that the only way you will ever be able to get close to a character is by romancing them, which is a reasonable thought because that's how it's been so far in ME1 and ME2. So what I'd like to know is; do people just want to get close to Jack as femShep? Or do they truely want a romance between the two? The latter is mutually exclusive with the former, but the former isn't mutually exclusive with the latter. I think some people want to have their femShep get closer to Jack, and they believe the only way for that to happen is for a romanctic relationship to occur between the two. Therefore they desire a Jack/femShep romance, when they simply just want their femShep to get closer to Jack, romantically or not.

Of course I could be wrong .

[Collider]

Let me just put my input into this. I would not care if Jack was bisexual (or lesbian) to begin with. There's apparently (judging by some of the comments on this discussion) a stereotype of bisexual/lesbian women being butch and all that, but really I don't buy that and I don't care that there's a stereotype.



However, she is not presented as being open to F!Shepard, so I do not want them to change Jack and have her open to the female sex. This would be the same if she had been a lesbian - I would not want her open to the male sex.

[Epantiras]

Jackal904 wrote...
So what I'd like to know is; do people just want to get close to Jack as femShep? Or do they truely want a romance between the two? The latter is mutually exclusive with the former, but the former isn't mutually exclusive with the latter. I think some people want to have their femShep get closer to Jack, and they believe the only way for that to happen is for a romanctic relationship to occur between the two. Therefore they desire a Jack/femShep romance, when they simply just want their femShep to get closer to Jack, romantically or not.

Your words are golden!

This one geth has reached consensus... bah I don't like talking like Legion, talking like an elchor is better.

You exposed one of ME2's bigger flaws: Shepard can get close to a character only by entering their pants, which is lame and immature. I hate reaching the end of the dialogue trees, I hate all the "calibrations" "needs to clean engine" "let's spill drinks" and, the most hated of all, "I don't wanna play". Can't we just talk?

This one geth supports more character interaction ;-)

EDIT: I forgot "meditations". It would have been too awesome to see my MaleShep (created just to romance Jack and see the rest of her dialogue) suddenly hold hands with Thane.

Modifié par Epantiras, 08 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[Pacifien]

Epantiras wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...
Oh god not this again. I don't want to sound
like a jerk, but this topic has been debated many times, and it usually
doesn't end nice.

I. Thought. The. Same. Thing :-P

Hey, so far we're as cool as we've ever been on this topic. You debate it enough times, you know where the limits are, at least.

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
Somewhat related to the topic at hand, here was an interesting thought made in the Tali thread: (which yes, does love Jack):*snip*

Conveniently forgot to mention someone then Godwin'ed that topic soon after.

Hey, that was after I posted.

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
Here also some thoughts about Jack being a mother from the Tali thread. I think the take-no-crap mother would make her children as tough and strong as she is, as was suggested in the link provided, seems to make the most sense. But what do you think?

In response to one of the posters, it's not a given that someone continues the cycle of how they were raised with their own children. A very real reaction that people will have when they have their own children is a drive not to repeat the mistakes of their own upbringing with their own children. However, some psychological elements tend to rear their ugly head without their even knowing. What horror there is when someone points out for the first time that you have done something exactly like your mother.

'Course, Jack doesn't remember her mother. Teltin was mother and father, the abusive sort.

I know one person who was adamant that his child not be raised as he was. He essentially had to raise himself because it was just him and his mother with his mother working long hours just to get rent and food on the table. He swore he would never neglect his own child and was there for every basketball game and lay down the strict rules. I've seen the opposite as well.

You're right, it's not a given. However, I would think that Jack would want to make her children tough. I don't mean by abuse. But Jack has seen how horrible the world can be and I assume that she would not want her children to succumb to it. On that note, it's very possible that she'd try to steer away her children away from the gangs and drugs Jack may have taken part in. So history isn't repeated, so to speak.

Modifié par Collider, 08 juillet 2010 - 08:50 .

[Homebound]

Not to insult any Jack Fans but Jack looks like a female version of Randy Orton....I really hope they change her in ME3. At least give her a hat or something.

[StefanBW]

lol, Jack looks nothing like Randy Orton dude. o_O

[Jackal904]

Just_mike wrote...

Not to insult any Jack Fans but Jack looks like a female version of Randy Orton....I really hope they change her in ME3. At least give her a hat or something.

Suuuure... And Garrus looks like Santa Clause.

Epantiras you need to make a comic for when people talk about changing Jack's appearance in general.

[Collider]

Jack is pretty. I guess people just aren't warmed up to the idea of a woman with a shaved head yet.

[Dominus5412]

So, to recap, the things we absolutely MUST have out of Jack in ME3 are:

1. Pregnant.
2. Married.
3. Hair.
4. Hat.
5. Clothes.
6. Bisexual.
7. High heels.

That about cover it?

Modifié par Dominus5412, 09 juillet 2010 - 12:23 .

[Collider]

Don't forget the high heels.