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[Errationatus]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

*SNIP*

Am I just looking at this from a wrong perspective? *lites tobacco pipe*

Naw.  People have done this since the dawn of literature.  Millions call it "religion". 

And as far as Jack sporting a mowhawk, I think she would look ok with a mowhawk, but it's just cliche as hell. 

That was kinda the point.  Still, I liked the leather pants and the armored chest piece.  I didn't do too badly, I had thought.  Doesn't look exactly like Jack, but there's no mistaking who it is. I also included one sans Mo.

Just for the record, I liked Fifth Element, but that's primarily because I'm a fan of Luc Besson. 

Leon was a far superior film.  Jean Reno - awesome.  The last thing I could stand Natalie Portman in.  A psycho Gary Oldman ("EVEREEEEEEEEE-ONE!!!!").  What more could you ask?

[royceclemens]

@Jackal

I think that by simple virtue that we have no creepy cosplayers and no paper mache love dolls, I think we're okay.

But seriously, though, I can only speak for myself and my self says that I'm attached to Jack moreso than all of the other characters because her voice-acting is very good, her writing is outstanding and she's left at a point where further development of the character would be, to say the least, interesting. I for one am not attracted to women like Jack in real life.

I think we're in good shape because just look at the posts we've written on The Hair Topic That Won't Ever F---ing Die. We won't be upset of she gets hair because if she does so she'll be more (or less) attractive. We'll be upset because it goes against a character, stifling the development that we've been teased with. We want the story more than the delusion of romance that we can gloriously fool ourselves that will bleed into real life

Modifié par royceclemens, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:42 .

[Mondo47]

JakeMacDon wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

*SNIP*

Am I just looking at this from a wrong perspective? *lites tobacco pipe*

Naw.  People have done this since the dawn of literature.  Millions call it "religion". 

And as far as Jack sporting a mowhawk, I think she would look ok with a mowhawk, but it's just cliche as hell. 

That was kinda the point.  Still, I liked the leather pants and the armored chest piece.  I didn't do too badly, I had thought.  Doesn't look exactly like Jack, but there's no mistaking who it is. I also included one sans Mo.

Just for the record, I liked Fifth Element, but that's primarily because I'm a fan of Luc Besson. 

Leon was a far superior film.  Jean Reno - awesome.  The last thing I could stand Natalie Portman in.  A psycho Gary Oldman ("EVEREEEEEEEEE-ONE!!!!").  What more could you ask?

"He said 'go back inside'!" - that line has me in fits of giggles. Great movie.

No, you didn't man, it's nice work. Very nice. It's just... mohawk. A lot of friends had them, or spikes, or my Electron-Mozart (as I liked to call it ), so it just seems more of an old scene to me maybe.

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
"He said 'go back inside'!" - that line has me in fits of giggles. Great movie.

That movie sucks.

Oh, the temptation to go for a 'Your mother' joke, but I'll just go for Rune's 1st Law - I think, therefore I'M RIGHT

Edit: Cripes, that was toothy even for me. Harsh. My apologies. I'm going to shift the blame onto the fact that all this talk about the old days has now got me listening to Zodiac Mindwarp

Modifié par Mondo47, 09 juillet 2010 - 09:07 .

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

It's funny, I never even heard of Zodiac Mindwarp, I had to look them up. 

I keep trying to think of good ways to describe them... how about "If Lobo was a terrible sexist vulgar metal band"

[Dominus5412]

That video gave me Hobgoblins flashbacks.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Yeesh... I hope you didn't read what I wrote about Leliana the other day

Seriously though, taking in your observations and those of ol' Uncle Royce, Jackal and the rest of the choir here, I'm inclined to agree, though in a slightly different way. We're all here for a particular reason; the character of Jack speaks to us in some way. Obviously not in a Room 17 kind of way, but in a sense that something about the crafting of this character in particular resonated with us. Maybe it's the looks, maybe it's the attitude, maybe it's the history, maybe it's the whole thing, but Jack communicates something to us Miri, Tali, Garrus, Kaidan or Ash don't or just plain can't. It's why we're in this little fanbase. In the clockwork of our minds, there's room for a Jack-shaped cog. We like her. Nothing wrong with that.

Sure, sometimes we wonder; we debate the things the other fan theads do - since Jack and Shep are so in wuv, what will happen to them next (or grouchily grouse that Jack will never wuv our Sheps due to them having the same sex organs). But more often than not, what do we discuss? Her past. We contemplate the horrors inflicted on this little girl that grew up to be a manufactured monster - just not the one her 'makers' wanted. Jack has something the other characters don't seem to have when you look at them - a vista of questions. Wrex might have lived for centuries and had some adventures, but we're not quite so interested in them as we are in how Jack became Jack, because in case we ever forgot, a lot of Jack is writ plainly on her body. And so we wonder about scars and tattoos and dates and meanings and events that are only hinted at in the vary barest of senses. We spend more time looking back than forwards with her.

There are some folk on this set of boards that like to rant on and on and on and on like stuck f*cking records about how shallow and senseless these new characters are (whoo... like there ever was much to some of those ME1 characters). I'm forced to ask then, if Jack is one of these useless filler-characters, why does she generate such interest in us? Because there's a lot to be intrigued by. Someone made her, crafted her like a part for a big, complex pocket watch, and did it with such skill she keeps the whole ticking (perhaps just for us, but that's an argument you can level at any character). She's not just some typical round wheel, either. No, this is not me bashing before someone comes in here and levels this at me, but to us at least, Jack has more interest and complexity than any other character; we can't see what's to engage with us about Tali's past, or Ashley's family, or Kaidan's... whatever he has (ok, that's bashing, but I don't know what he has, ok ). Jack is important to the whole as an experience for us as an audience.

In the end, I don't think any of us are here just because we think Jack has a great rack or a sweet disposition. It's because we want to know the whole story. Hell, she raises more interesting questions than the story's central bloody character! That's why we want to see more of her - we want to know more, and perhaps get a few more crumbs as to what made her who she is as we learn about a potential future for her. I think we got lucky with her; Jack could so easily have been just some foulmouthed guntoting cliche. Some might say she is, but if you look closer, just like looking at the tattoos, there's more if you're willing to try and read it.

So sure, we want her to come back. Give her hair or not. Make her a squadmate or not. Religate her to a cameo or one of those lousy emails if you really must. Or just forget she was ever there. We won't foam rabidly for days or months if it doesn't happen, but we'll certainly mourn. Not the loss of our precious waifu, but a squandered chance to use one of the most interesting moving parts in the Mass Effect universe as it unfolds for us. Because as much as we want to see the story we've experienced across two episodes come to a satisfying and exciting conclusion, what we all want really I think is a chance to see what makes that angry young lady tick. If you don't use her now, BioWare, you really are throwing away something pretty damn amazing.

The ball, as they say, is in your court now. We'd like it if you didn't disappoint us

Modifié par Mondo47, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:27 .

[NICKjnp]

What I am excited about is that Bioware has introduced us to a great variety of characters. Unlike most people... I think that all squadmates that lived through ME 1&2 will be in ME3. They were built up for us and they made sure that we knew that they were still around. The game relied on them as being part of the story. Even when we didn't have them on our team they still contributed to the mission in some way or form. Kaidan or Ashley reminded us that (if the were a romance) Mass Effect 1 still happened and that our actions at this point were affecting those who we built a relationship (professionaly or romanticaly) with. Liara was a catalyst for Shepard being alive and assisting him on finding both Thane and Samara. Wrex (if you cared about him enough to be nice and either talk him down or be a friend and do his side mission) was there to assist us in missions similar to Liara. I have high hopes that Bioware will continue to build upon this great story and are more than capable of combining both squads. How awesome would it be to have Jack and Kaidan or Wrex and Samara in the same squad together. I'm confident that Bioware will make ME3 just as good as they did ME1 and ME2.

[Pacifien]

Honestly, I just wish I could discuss all the characters without romance coming into play. The second romance is discussed, then the character becomes intertwined with that of Shepard to become the new LI-Shepard. Jack appeals to me beyond romance, Tali appeals to me beyond romance, Thane appeals to me beyond romance, Grunt appeals to me beyond romance.... gyah.

Their time with Shepard changes them, but Shepard changes everyone he comes across.

And look at all the most frequented support threads. They are love interests or characters people want to become love interests. I could discuss the implications of AI advancement with the Geth Collective all night or the morally grey area of Mordin's whole life. The nonromanceable get no love.

Inevitably I'll be in the midst of a discussion when someone will bring up something that was related to the romance storyline. New history, new details, new personality insights. And there is some truth to the fact that a person shows a different side of themselves to their partner than to their coworkers. But if my Shepard doesn't do the romance, can it really apply to my discussion? I either have to go with the flow or exit stage left. Not all the time, but often enough.

[Collider]

As is the case in the Dragon Age forums. The nonromanceables do not have threads. That is the nature of the forums. I lament the relative non existence of a Mordin thread. I've seen it, but it's all dusty and gathering moss right now. RIP

Groups can be different, although most groups for nonromanceable squad mates are probably not very active.

Can anything be done about the problem you talk about? Not much. People are going to talk about the romances, and they will continue doing so. Finding a discussion where romance does not play into it may be as simple as asking for one, though.

"Aside from any possible romance with Shepard, why do you think Miranda resigns from Cerberus if you destroy the base?" Otherwise, they are not going to know that you don't want romance injected into the particular discussion - not know that some people who are reading may prefer the discussion to discuss the character outside of the romance - as most people do not care.

What I suggest may be seen as telling people not to talk about the romances, but it isn't. It's asking for one particular discussion to exclude romance from the equation. People will still about the romance in other conversations, but if they respect your wishes, not in the one you specifically requested. That still may not be sufficient. In which case, there's probably nothing that can be done about it.

Modifié par Collider, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:37 .

[PseudoEthnic]

Pacifien wrote...

Honestly, I just wish I could discuss all the characters without romance coming into play. The second romance is discussed, then the character becomes intertwined with that of Shepard to become the new LI-Shepard. Jack appeals to me beyond romance, Tali appeals to me beyond romance, Thane appeals to me beyond romance, Grunt appeals to me beyond romance.... gyah.

I agree with this. BioWare did a good job of making the characters appealing whether you romanced them or not. I, too, wish that romance wasn't the only way to really get to a person. However, to be fair, a real life person wouldn't really open up to a co-worker so much as the person they trust the most.
-----
Also, while this may not be about the current topic, it still applies to Jack. I just finished Grunt's loyalty mission on Insanity, and Jack killed the Thresher Maw with her shotgun. BAD. ASS. Tali did something similar earlier today on Garrus's loyalty mission by headshotting a heavy mech with her shotgun. My Shepard has good taste in women.:lol:

[Collider]

Some people (including Jack fans) have argued that Jack does not want friends. One person I spoke with asked "Why does everyone have to be Shepard's friend?" I'm not really sure I could believe it's just time restraints or budget. Just one sentence from Jack could have given Shepard the sense that they made progress with her.



If you reach the end of her conversations and you did not romance her, for example, she could say that she's been thinking about the conversations you had with her and that she needs time to ponder over it (of course, not in the way I worded it).



This would give the sense that she's been thinking and considering about Shepard as a friend, rather than kind of just telling Shepard to go away if you don't romance her.

It's like the opposite of the situation with Liara, in ME1 - in not wanting to romance her, you become scared of even speaking with her, lest you start the romance without even knowing about it.

Sadly, this was the case with Liara for me. Since the romance was so upfront from the start, on my last playthrough of ME1 I just did not talk to her. I think the romances in ME1 were far too sensitive. I ended up accidentally romancing Ashley in that same playthrough too, ironically enough.

[axl99]

Although we are given a choice whether we pursue a relationship, it'd have been nice if there was contextual dialog [highlighted in pink, magenta, whathaveyou] that actually indicates your romantic interest in a character as opposed to choosing severely summarized sentences on the dialog wheel that might not generate the kinda conversation you really want to have.

That in itself sounds like a minigame.  Talking to someone is fun and all, but it's presented so passively. What Bioware had with the paragon/renegade interrupt was great, maybe they could apply the same proactive mentality into developing romantic relationships.

Modifié par axl99, 10 juillet 2010 - 05:18 .

[Errationatus]

Mondo47 wrote...

"He said 'go back inside'!" - that line has me in fits of giggles. Great movie.

I also recommend one called Wasabi, with Jean Reno.  Also quite good.

No, you didn't man, it's nice work. Very nice.

Thank you, most kind.

It's just... mohawk. A lot of friends had them, or spikes, or my Electron-Mozart (as I liked to call it ), so it just seems more of an old scene to me maybe.

Yah, it's old school, but it never goes out.  I can see Jack cranking out some Ramones, or some DedKen's, or The Clash.   Punk's not dead - it's just waiting for the tide of current sh!t to crest and people to come back to the music that never pussied out. 

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 10 juillet 2010 - 05:13 .

[Errationatus]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I think the artwork itself looks good. 

Thanks.

I was only talking about the concept.  Jack sporting a mowhawk , takes me back to the 80's whenever it became somewhat popular.  That look of Jack with the mohawk and leather, reminds me of some of those British movies released back in the 80's to.  They  had a "Mad Max" type theme to them.  Where roving American street gangs are wearing these ridiculous outfits and fighting each other. 

Then you got the joke I was going for.  Next time I'll just slap her into bunny slippers.

That movie sucks.

You, sir, are an unmitigated heathen.  And a Philistine.  A heathenish Philistine.  A Philistinish Heathen with tendencies toward barbarism.  Or is that Barbaraism?

They're coming to get you, Barbara!

[Collider]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
I can't figure out why Bioware would make the
dialogue options with Jack so restrictive, if one just wants to be her
friend.  Disc space limitations?  Time restraints?  Budget?  It's
like the opposite of the situation with Liara, in ME1 - in not wanting
to romance her, you become scared of even speaking with her, lest you
start the romance without even knowing about it.

I think it's that way with most of them. You can't get but a few convos with them. I was really wanting to talk to Garrus when I first played ME2, but he didn't have a whole lot to say.

That's not exactly the issue at hand here, I think.

Garrus doesn't have a lot to say, but it is implied that Shepard and Garrus are at least friends. Unless you romance her, there does not appear to many indications that Jack and Shepard are friends. On my male playthrough at least (haven't done everything on my female playthrough yet), didn't even seem like we are on good terms. Just neutral or "whatever."

[Collider]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
That's Jack's personality and how she chooses to live her life, and deal with other people. She comes across as a loner. She never really gives the indication that she is interested in a friendship with anyone. If you think about it, that fits perfectly into her back story.

I think there's your answer york. I do wish there was friendship with Jack, but I agree that it may not really fit her.