20813 réponses à ce sujet

[DaneWolf]

As mutch as I love Morrigan i have to love Jack!!! She's awesome in many ways!
If ur a guy you HAVE to love jack!!! Everything about her is apealing!

Her agressiveness none the less!
Her looks Obvious!!!
Her straightforwardness!!!

She's just every bad boy's dream!!!

[NICKjnp]

DaneWolf wrote...

As mutch as I love Morrigan i have to love Jack!!! She's awesome in many ways!
If ur a guy you HAVE to love jack!!! Everything about her is apealing!

Her agressiveness none the less!
Her looks Obvious!!!
Her straightforwardness!!!

She's just every bad boy's dream!!!

Not that I dislike Jack... because I think they created a great character in her... but to say a guy is only a guy if he likes Jack is a little childish.  Some people don't like her personality.  I don't like Tali's personality... does that make her a bad character?  No.... it just means that I don't like her.

As for Jack being every bad boy's dream.... no.  I would say she is every good boy who wants to be a bad boy's dream.  Most bad boys probably dream about good girls and most good boys probably dream about bad girls.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:12 .

[Errationatus]

This probably paints of picture of me having buckets of time on my hands, but after doing some inventory on ME2, I discovered that I have sixteen Shepards, five of which have romanced Jack, and five FemSheps.

It breaks down to this: Out of my eleven GuySheps,

2 romanced Miranda
3 romanced Tali
1 stayed loyal to Ash
and the rest romanced Jack.

My FemSheps:

1 is "romancing " Kelly
1 is romancing Garrus
2 stayed loyal to Liara
1 stayed loyal to Kaiden

At least three of my ManSheps haven't hit the Collectors yet, and two of my FemSheps haven't either.

I hadn't realized I'd actually played this game this many times.   Sheesh.   You'd think t'were good or sumfin.

So... how many Sheps y'all have, and how many have romanced Jack?

[Goat_Shepard]

Mondo47 wrote...
Ah... "vulnerability". We have dismissed that claim.
snp

Good write-up. I cried manly tears

Pacifien wrote...
Hey, I can't help it if you didn't respond to my post within five minutes and my ADD drew my attention elsewhere.

Heeeeey something in common!

But does that make Jack a vulnerable person, a broken individual that needs a romance to be a better person? She will always have a harsh personality, even up against Shepard. I've known people like Jack, in many ways I am Jack. The best relationship in the world doesn't solve the emotional issues that one has developed as a defense mechanism against the world. One wrong phrase or action on Shepard's part, and Jack is on the rampage. Only the strongest of individuals (for which we are constantly told Shepard is) can work past that and keep the relationship going.

So look beyond the relationship and to who Jack is to the rest of the galaxy. Without a romance, she becomes a person who is intent to walk away from the ghost of Teltin. She learns to work with other people in a way that can only happen with some level of trust. She grows as a person simply by being a member of Normandy's crew.

THIS!! I have to believe this is true, and ultimately it is. It would be incredibly disappointing if any LIs were only happy or complete if you romance them. I had that mindset for 4 playthroughs and felt downright depressed about talking to any of the LIs I wasn't going to romance. What you said is true, though. The vulnerability is going to be there if you "lead them on", that much is true for both human and, in this universe, alien nature. It's up to Shepard to say the right things.

yorkj86 wrote...
Would you believe me if I told you some people are turned off from Jack because they see only the "grrl power" look?

Idk, check out this pile of mech;



Or ask this blink;



In truth, I think people are intimidated by this;



Nobody has ever talked to Shepard like that. I myself was scared, but unlike most "turned off" gamers, I actually talked to her after she joined the Normandy. For many people (especially ones that don't do her loyalty mission *facepalm*) Purgatory is all they see of Jack. And pity the gamer who just doesn't understand the dialogue they hear.

All the females are strong, I don't get how Jack is "grrl power" but Femshep, Ashley, Miranda, and Tali aren't. Jack is more intense, obviously, but people need to open their eyes, the verse is full of chicks that could kick your ass, forcing you to your knees in adoration or fear.

JakeMacDon wrote...
So... how many Sheps y'all have, and how many have romanced Jack?

I really shouldn't be saying this due to how shameful it is, but I've only played 4 times all of them romanced Tali.

That was 3 months ago, I'm just starting again from ME1 and fully intend to have as many and as diverse playthroughs as you, Jake. The game is pretty addicting and taking that long of a break is killing me.

And the Jackindoctrination I've experienced from this thread puts her at the forefront of my mind, especially since it's an unexplored romance for me.

@Nick
I agree. I definitely hate generalities, and I especially loathe intolerance.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 14 juillet 2010 - 05:28 .

[Mondo47]

Just to backtrack (now I'm no longer dressed like I was going to Donovan Hock's place) -

Indeedy, I was only referring to the vulnerability expressed in the various love interests romances. While I do think Jack has quite a few vulnerabilites that are on show fairly regularly due to the way she wears her social armour, there's no way in hell you could say Jack can't take a blow. She's tough because she's had to be... it's only once she strips away some of the layers of hostility, posturing and defensiveness that she reveals a weak spot that can be hit for major damage (as the kids like to say): Jack has a heart under all that foul f*cking language and threats of serious violence, and it is as fragile as anyone else's for all her scales and spikes. The biggest dragon has a heart, after all.

And yeah, since even Shepard says a few talks can't fix it, I think (and I've written) that Jack will take a long time to get to a place where she functions like say Tali for instance... hell, she might never get there, but it'll be up to whomever she's with having the strength to stand by her, because there will be fights, tantrums, breakups and makeups. I've said before (months back in fact) that Jack fills this 'broken doll' role, but I'd not say she's broken. She's been broken, but every time something is damaged she stitches herself back together as best she can and soldiers on. It's not repairing she needs so much as someone to clean her up a little, pop a little stuffing back in, maybe put in a neat few stitches for her here and there; she'll always have the scars, but she'll be a whole doll again... something ready to love and be loved finally.

And while this idea that 'real men love Jack' is appealing (it'd be great if guys in particular were less down on her looks - oh wow, she doesn't have long hair and big boobs, and can still be attractive miracle of miracles), it's a bit too general. Never mind the fact she has beautiful eyes, a voice that can be like ice down your back or hot oil and skilled hands, and a look that screams a real, individual person (albeit a kinda mixed up one trying to build an identity out of it all), and ignoring the fact there's as many women on this forum that adore our lil' gal as guys, some people don't think of her that way. Tali to some people is a kid-sister kinda character, one they can't reconcile a romance with because it feels wrong. Similarly, Jack brings out paternal, fraternal or maternal feelings in some of us; we just want to pick her up and help her onto her feet again, hand out some hugs, and get a kick out of seeing this grouchy little tomboy playing happily with the other kids in the playground. While some fans just reallyreallyreally want to see Tali's face, we'll get more of a payoff just seeing Jack happy. The girl's earned it in spades, after all.

Oh, and just to add to the Sheps question -

Gals

Adrienne Shepard - remained loyal to Liara
Anastasia Shepard - Garrus
Aya Shepard - Thane
Bethany Shepard - remained loyal to Kaidan (just for sh*ts and giggles more than anything else)
Seidah Shepard - Jacob

Guys

Adrian Shepard - Jack
AJ Shepard - Tali
Daniel Shepard - Jack (who incidentally is my 'quickfic' Shepard)
Deacon Shepard - Tali
Isaac Shepard - Miranda
Jacob Shepard - Jack
Warren Shepard - Jack

Kinda shows which romances I enjoyed the most

Modifié par Mondo47, 14 juillet 2010 - 06:35 .

[Pacifien]

I think I just have a chip on my shoulder about... things.

I've done four romances, only two of which I liked and I'm not about to go admitting what those two are on these forums because they're reputation killers. Then there are a couple more romances I haven't done but I like quite a lot, Jack's being one of them.

I have lost count of how many playthroughs I've done, and they're all remarkably similar to each other so it doesn't even matter. There is only one playthrough that is distinctly different from the rest and that's because it's the playthrough that plays out the way I think the story should play out and not exactly the way I like to play.

Grunt and Jack did me proud on the Derelict Reaper. Had to stop being stingy with my medikits, but otherwise, they knew how to take care of a horde of husks. Lots of incendiary, incinerate, and pull. However, now that I have Legion, Grunt and Jack are going to take a backseat to Legion and Tali as I do all Combat Drones all the time. It's the whole reason why I wanted to play an Engineer.

Oh right, and I took Jack to Heretic Station. Her opinion on rewrite matches mine pretty much completely.

Modifié par Pacifien, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:18 .

[Dominus5412]

Oh right, and I took Jack to Heretic Station. Her opinion on rewrite matches mine pretty much completely.

What is her opinion?

Modifié par Dominus5412, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .

[Pacifien]

Dominus5412 wrote...
What is her opinion?

Better off dead than brainwashed to smile and nod.

[StefanBW]

The Heretic mission is so strange. The entire mission it seems that the Paragon route is not to rewrite them and at the end it's the exact opposite. :S Same goes for Renegade.

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Jack is human, just like we are.  I know that is obvious, but some of us need to keep this in mind.  We don't have to be afraid to talk about Jack being vulnerable.  We all are vulnerable at times to a certain extent, some more so than others.

And if you think an intimate relationship doesn't impact someone, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'll speak my mind in this thread, and won't apologize for it.  I will not discuss Jack only in a certain way, so as to appear to be politically correct.  I don't care if my assessment/analysis/opinion  of the Jack character gives the impression to someone that I may be portraying her as sterotypical, politically incorrect, or taboo in some way that should not be spoken of in this forum.  She is what she is, period.

Here here!

And I don't think anyone here would want you to moderate or alter your opinons in here, Johnny - we ain't that kinda crowd I don't think. We're not hardcore Talimancers, after all

Oh no! I'm bashing people again! I must away to spank myself immediately!

[Pacifien]

Heretic Station is one of things I wish I could ask the developers about details because I so firmly believe rewrite was not a paragon action. The only reason I could see them treating it as such is that the paragon decisions lean heavily toward second chances, so the rewrite might be deemed giving the Heretics a second chance to make things right. By force.

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...
Guys

Adrian Shepard - Jack
AJ Shepard - Tali
Daniel Shepard - Jack (who incidentally is my 'quickfic' Shepard)
Deacon Shepard - Tali
Isaac Shepard - Miranda
Jacob Shepard - Jack
Warren Shepard - Jack

Best dialogue ever:

Jacob: "Jacob?"
Shepard: "Jacob."

///

about the rewrite or destroy moral dilemma, is one of the morally gray choices where none of the options is clearly evil or clearly good. The problem is that the game forces a moral system on us by rewarding paragon or renegade points.

My paragade Shepard killed the rachni queen because she wanted to prevent new rachni wars (too bad in ME2 you discover that the original rachni were indoctrinated and forced to go on war), she also destroyed the geth because "the only good geth is the dead one" and because she did't trust the rewriting system.

[Pacifien]

Epantiras wrote...
My paragade Shepard killed the rachni queen because she wanted to prevent new rachni wars (too bad in ME2 you discover that the original rachni were indoctrinated and forced to go on war), she also destroyed the geth because "the only good geth is the dead one" and because she did't trust the rewriting system.

The indoctrination of the Rachni is actually implied in the first game, but not explicitly stated until the second game.

[StefanBW]

I killed the Rachni because they creep me out. >_>

[Collider]

Paragon and Renegade isn't Good and Evil. Paragon tends towards moral righteousness and a "let's save everyone" mentality. That the mission is not always first. Whereas Renegade is more inclined towards not saving everyone, or even purposefully getting people killed. The mission usually takes priority for renegade.

[Mondo47]

Pacifien wrote...

The indoctrination of the Rachni is actually implied in the first game, but not explicitly stated until the second game.

This. The whole souring-of-the-song thing. I've never been able to kill the queen, even with Wrex yelling in my ear about it. The fact she deliberately attempted to speak as I as opposed to We has always convinced me of her innocence. By the time ME2 arrived, I was just stoked to have an army of space-bugs at my back... ones that can reconstruct current technology in a vastly improved state. I've alternated a little between blowing up the heretics and rewriting them for the same reason. I've been thinking of the bigger picture - can't count on the Council, the Alliance might not make a move until it's too late (or may even be up to something as risky as Cerberus have been on the sly), but I might have bugs and tin men at my back if all else fails. Rewriting might give me a bigger army, as ethically wonky as it may be.

[kraidy1117]

Mondo47 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

The indoctrination of the Rachni is actually implied in the first game, but not explicitly stated until the second game.

This. The whole souring-of-the-song thing. I've never been able to kill the queen, even with Wrex yelling in my ear about it. The fact she deliberately attempted to speak as I as opposed to We has always convinced me of her innocence. By the time ME2 arrived, I was just stoked to have an army of space-bugs at my back... ones that can reconstruct current technology in a vastly improved state. I've alternated a little between blowing up the heretics and rewriting them for the same reason. I've been thinking of the bigger picture - can't count on the Council, the Alliance might not make a move until it's too late (or may even be up to something as risky as Cerberus have been on the sly), but I might have bugs and tin men at my back if all else fails. Rewriting might give me a bigger army, as ethically wonky as it may be.

Same here. I have a massive fleet and I don't care if the council helps, I have Krogan, Geth, Quarian and Rachni.

[Goat_Shepard]

Mondo47 wrote...
Here here!

And I don't think anyone here would want you to moderate or alter your opinons in here, Johnny - we ain't that kinda crowd I don't think. We're not hardcore Talimancers, after all

Oh no! I'm bashing people again! I must away to spank myself immediately!

Well looks like Mondo....



enjoys spankings.

YYYEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Mondo47 wrote...
And while this idea that 'real men love Jack' is appealing (it'd be great if guys in particular were less down on her
looks - oh wow, she doesn't have long hair and big boobs, and can still be attractive miracle of miracles), it's a bit too general. Never mind the fact she has beautiful eyes, a voice that can be like ice down your back or hot oil and skilled hands, and a look that screams a real, individual person (albeit a kinda mixed up one trying to build an
identity out of it all),

Great post, Mondo. Am I doing something wrong here? Nobody worshipped this post for the jem it is. Anyways I'm quite good at it loved the "big dragon has a heart" comparison.
You're absolutely right about her eyes but especially about her voice...those were....a lovely choice of similes

And also, I think her tattoos create the illusion that she's not well-endowed

and ignoring the fact there's as many women on this forum that adore our lil' gal as guys, some people don't think of her that way.

Is this part of the "grrl power" group? I don't know of many females who's favorite romance would require them to play Maleshep. I've met one, actually but I'm sort of surprised there would be that many casual fans.

And about the Heretics, Legion said 3 processes preferred rewriting as opposed to destruction, no? I'm simple, I know.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 14 juillet 2010 - 09:44 .

[NICKjnp]

Mondo47 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Jack is human, just like we are.  I know that is obvious, but some of us need to keep this in mind.  We don't have to be afraid to talk about Jack being vulnerable.  We all are vulnerable at times to a certain extent, some more so than others.

And if you think an intimate relationship doesn't impact someone, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'll speak my mind in this thread, and won't apologize for it.  I will not discuss Jack only in a certain way, so as to appear to be politically correct.  I don't care if my assessment/analysis/opinion  of the Jack character gives the impression to someone that I may be portraying her as sterotypical, politically incorrect, or taboo in some way that should not be spoken of in this forum.  She is what she is, period.

Here here!

And I don't think anyone here would want you to moderate or alter your opinons in here, Johnny - we ain't that kinda crowd I don't think. We're not hardcore Talimancers, after all

Oh no! I'm bashing people again! I must away to spank myself immediately!

Eh... join the club.  I'm the second-in-command of the anti-Tali alliance. 

[Goat_Shepard]

NICKjnp wrote...
Eh... join the club.  I'm the second-in-command of the anti-Tali alliance. 

I didn't know Tali was so powerful she required a counter-alliance to combat her. You have a command structure and everything

[Pacifien]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...
Eh... join the club.  I'm the second-in-command of the anti-Tali alliance. 

I didn't know Tali was so powerful she required a counter-alliance to combat her. You have a command structure and everything

As far as I can tell, the alliance consists of a treehouse, a secret handshake, and strategic strikes against anything with a mask, even if that's the Master Chief.