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[Collider]

I cannot really see Jack randomly antagonizing people. Every time she's ever hurt anyones it's been for:

a) Benefit (money, etc)
Revenge
c) Self defense

None of those fit random bullying. I also don't see Jack as a jealous type.

Modifié par Collider, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:25 .

[stormrain]

I bet she found Shepard shooting Conrad in the foot entertaining. It's not everyday one sees Mr. Bossman lose his cool.

[kraidy1117]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Captain Uccisore wrote...
Double posts are evil.

You must atone for this evil act Capt.  You must watch the movies "Ishtar" & "Showgirls" compeletely.  Immediately following the viewing of the movies, you shall swallow a bottle of Pepto Bismol and Xanax.  Then and only then, will you be forgiven.

Jesus! That is plain evil!

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
I cannot really see Jack randomly antagonizing people. Every time she's ever hurt anyones it's been for:

a) Benefit (money, etc)
Revenge
c) Self defense

None of those fit random bullying. I also don't see Jack as a jealous type.

Those are all the stories she's told, so there's no explicit evidence that she's the bullying type.

However, people ask what's going to happen between Jack and Miranda after their confrontation and Jack says she'll wait until the end of the mission to flay Miranda. Was she serious? I've said before that I think she absolutely wasn't.

This is because I think a great deal of Jack's personality is the image itself, the posturing. Act tougher and meaner than the others, present yourself as the alpha dog. Demonstrate you are in control of the situation, that you can control them, and then you do have control of the situation. However, this only works on someone who actually is weaker than you.

So she pushes, finds the weaknesses. And probably does give you respect if you don't play her game because then it provides a different challenge to her.

[drunken pyromaniac]

@Sundown Native
I can't remember if any squadmate says something there, in fact...

@Collider
I agree, Jack has always seemed the type to only attack or kill when necessary or cornered. I don't picture her as a predator.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 20 juillet 2010 - 09:39 .

[stormrain]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Captain Uccisore wrote...
Double posts are evil.

You must atone for this evil act Capt.  You must watch the movies "Ishtar" & "Showgirls" completely.  Immediately following the viewing of the movies, you shall swallow a bottle of Pepto Bismol and Xanax.  Then and only then, will you be forgiven.

Ahem.

[Mondo47]

Just to put my oar in one last time on this, I think there is one thing to bear in mind. Well, two things (oh yes, I am Cardinal Ximenez ). I think we need to remember that Jack is not just someone that kills when she's cornered or forced to; show me a pirate that does that who isn't called Jack Sparrah (as in fictional) and I'd gladly bow down. You get in the way of the job, you get snuffed. You surrender or die. Case closed. Jack has moved with privateers, criminal gangs, and spent extended periods in some seriously nasty prisons. When she escapes, mercs bring her back. She isn't going to wait for the mercs to draw on her - she's gonna get all Han Solo and shoot f*cking first. And when she's in some grim cell block with murderers, rapists, psychos, and they're just the guards... you don't sit quiet in your corner and hope people leave you alone. It doesn't happen like that. You become the biggest, baddest ball of hate you can be. Someone looks at you funny, you put them in the hospital wing. Someone throws down, you put them in a hole in the ground. Supermax prisons are not places for keeping your honour... unless of course you're Nicholas Cage in Con Air <_< It's dog eat dog. Jack's spent a long time getting bitten, before she got anywhere near a prison. I doubt she has much in the way of honour left in her when she joins the Normandy... if you can see that, fair do's.

I just think it's easy to see Jack with rose-tinted glasses; I think we all do it a lot; we love our lil' gal - dem eyes, dem lips and all. Sure, we only have Jack's word on all the sh*t she's done, so we don't know how much of it we can take on face value, but to go where she's gone she has to have made some very, very Renegade choices... f*ck the workers, let 'em burn, let's go kill Vido. I was wanting to get someone that has been out of a prison for a couple of weeks on the page. Someone on a ship run by her enemies, and crewed by her enemies. She's still in the slammer between the ears. Shepard hasn't gone and blown up Teltin yet. If you can't see her working people's nerves, acting out just to remind the ship she's dangerous and anyone that tries anything with her is going out feet first, fair enough. I can see it though. And I write these things for me primarily. If other people like them, I'm happy, but they are for me. This is my Jack; someone crafted by hardship, someone mean and vicious and angry, someone that in the short time she is on the Normandy and around the great transformer that is Shepard finds something under all the snarls and aggression - the Jack she's been trying to find. Shepard not so much defangs her, but helps her find the identity she's been seeking. I mean, Shep can work magic on anyone - Wrex didn't want to go home and give his people a second chance (and he's had christ knows how many decades to mull that sh*t over), one quick adventure with Shep and he turns into f*cking Conan!

I'm just reminding myself that she's not quite as dere-dere as I was in danger of making her, so it's all just me and too many episodes of Oz. Let's not keep a debate going over some bit of fiction I wrote, we got better things to talk about...

... like what kind of wedding dress Jack would wear

[Pacifien]

Mondo47 wrote...
If you can't see her working people's nerves, acting out just to remind the ship she's dangerous and anyone that tries anything with her is going out feet first, fair enough. I can see it though. And I write these things for me primarily. If other people like them, I'm happy, but they are for me. This is my Jack;*snip*

This is pretty much true for every fan fiction, every character discussion. You see from the perspective of your character and your game. Oftentimes, people's opinions are going to converge. Oftentimes, the Jack thread gets up in arms against each other when the opinions diverge.

Mondo's interpretation is similar to mine in many ways, enough that I can read her fanfic and think "yeah, that's how it would go." But if I wrote as much as she did, we'd probably start seeing those little details that are distinctly different. For instance, I think my Jack would be far gloomier (and would have that impulse to leave like in Sundown's narrative). But then again, if you see me around the forums enough, you realize my interpretation of just about every character is far gloomier. Exceptions being Kasumi and Grunt. (Happy Krogan is happy!)

Anyway my Shepard would probably feel like getting under Jack's skin just as much as she would in return. Which is why there's no romance involved between the two of them.

Current playthrough was going to finally go with the romance. Karma hit. Maybe I'll finally play Deus Ex now.

[Mondo47]

Nothing wrong with your own readings of characters, Xen... it's only wrong-wrong when the actual creator turns around and tells you. Jack's everyone's really since there's so many gaps in her story. I just think hey, no need for everyone to take side over a quickfic.

Besides, I can't talk, I'm turing Tali into a lesbian for one - now that's OOC

[Pacifien]

xenoprobed wrote...
Its funny. You finally write something that showcases the personality of Jack as she's presented in the game, and a bunch of p****ies get themselves all in a tizzy .It's fan-fiction folks,it won't hurt anybody...promise. Nice disclaimer, Mondo.  Get use to writing these often when a certain ''project'' gets up and running.

There is a difference between difference of opinion and getting all in a tizzy about something. You wanna see the Jack thread get into a tizzy about something? Let's discuss Jack being a--

* Pacifien is shot by a sniper *

[royceclemens]

Pacifien wrote...

xenoprobed wrote...
Its funny. You finally write something that showcases the personality of Jack as she's presented in the game, and a bunch of p****ies get themselves all in a tizzy .It's fan-fiction folks,it won't hurt anybody...promise. Nice disclaimer, Mondo.  Get use to writing these often when a certain ''project'' gets up and running.

There is a difference between difference of opinion and getting all in a tizzy about something. You wanna see the Jack thread get into a tizzy about something? Let's discuss Jack being a--

* Pacifien is shot by a sniper *

::changes out clip from sniper rifle::

What?  You saw what he was about to do!

[royceclemens]

As for my personal interpretation of Jack (as I wanted to get a word in edgewise before the topic died out completely, as I haven't posted here in a while) is this...



If you had to ask me, I'd identify Jack as Chaotic Neutral which, in my opinion, is the alignment of Darwinism in action. All her life she's been taken advantage of by people who were bigger, stronger, smarter, faster than she was. So when she finds herself in a position where the only thing standing between her and what she wants is someone with a gun, she's gonna pull out all the stops to be the fittest. As in "Survival of the."



But even then? This philosophy has its limits, as she'll prey on the weak as long as she personally doesn't have to get her hands dirty. Yeah she'll send Niftu Cal off to die, yes she'll giggle when you shove an Eclipse merc out a 475th story window, but she didn't actually visit harm upon wither of them personally. In fact, the only time in her backstory where she implicitly mentions harming the innocent, it was when the cult tried to get her to shake down settlements... And she made the cult pay for that.



As for in-game? The only time we ever see her pull on someone who isn't armed, it's... Aresh. And the Renegade end to that little encounter isn't so much Shepard encouraging her to do it, but bullying her into it against her will.



So make of all this what you will.

[Collider]

Is there REALLY anyone getting in a "tizzy"? For my part, all I said is that I interpreted Jack differently. I don't think that's being overreactive - Mondo said herself that she wanted to know if people thought that she had gotten the character's personalities right.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Collider wrote...

Is there REALLY anyone getting in a "tizzy"? For my part, all I said is that I interpreted Jack differently. I don't think that's being overreactive - Mondo said herself that she wanted to know if people thought that she had gotten the character's personalities right.

I don't see anyone getting all that upset either. It's everyone's right to interpret the character as they wish. There's certainly enough evidence for her to be either way. I just don't see her posturing and trying to hold power over others all the time. Jack seems to want to be left alone more than anything to me. I don't want to force my opinion on anyone or change their own opinions though.

[Goat_Shepard]

Mondo47 wrote...
And I write these things for me primarily. If other people like them, I'm happy, but they are for me. This is my Jack; someone crafted by hardship, someone mean and vicious and angry, someone that in the short time she is on the Normandy and around the great transformer that is Shepard finds something under all the snarls and aggression - the Jack she's been trying to find.

I like your Jack

Great insight everyone, this is becoming one of those threads that I appreciate from afar rather than partake in.

yorkj86 wrote...
Were you going to mention what Jack would look like with long hai--

You guys want to see my picture of Jack with Miranda's hair?

JohnnyDollar wrote...

*unlurks*

Hmm...

*holds off on making any comments for now*
*lurks*

It's now or never, cuz I'm about to post Jack Lawson.

yorkj86 wrote...

Sundown Native wrote...

......I remember seeing a post from somebody commenting on Jack's lips. I can't
-- for the life of me -- get them out of my head, now. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png

Why would you want to banish the image of Jack's lips from your mind?  Dem lips, man, dem lips.

Yeah Sundown that has to be the oddest comment I've ever seen.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 21 juillet 2010 - 12:02 .

[axl99]

I think Sundown is trying to erase the imagery of Jack running her lips down his neck, among other areas.



I kid.

[Gethforceone]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Collider wrote...

Is there REALLY anyone getting in a "tizzy"? For my part, all I said is that I interpreted Jack differently. I don't think that's being overreactive - Mondo said herself that she wanted to know if people thought that she had gotten the character's personalities right.

I don't see anyone getting all that upset either. It's everyone's right to interpret the character as they wish. There's certainly enough evidence for her to be either way. I just don't see her posturing and trying to hold power over others all the time. Jack seems to want to be left alone more than anything to me. I don't want to force my opinion on anyone or change their own opinions though.

I agree with all of this.