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[Jackal904]

Mondo47 wrote...

It seems the gripe-du-jour about Jack at the moment is that her costume (pre-loyalty) screams of a lack of self respect... it goes along with that overt sexuality and bat**** craziness and amoral behaviour and...

Someone please give that old monkey on the organ a break... he's going to keel over and die if you keep working him like that.

Jack is a vulnerable character. She is the ruin she is because of her past. She wears it in her visual armour of tattoos, and her psychological armour of attitude and aggression. Having her boobs out on display is a facet of that projection; it's a challenge to others. Not for the people that would desire it, but those that don't. The rest can be read as a survival mechanism, but not the admittedly odd nipple-halter (that's my official name for it now that thing really can't be comfortable...). If she looked less like a half-starved teenage boy, you could argue it as a lack of self-respect maybe, but Jack is, you have to confess, very much in a niche as far as potential sex objects go. The ascant looks, the mutters behind hands in polite society, they all are what it's done for. It's not because she has no self-respect, it's because she wants to get that reaction. It's because she doesn't care what the norms think. She wants that, because she wants society at arms length. And these kinds of reactions from gamers show it's working in spades. Bravo design team - completely topless would have been even better... imagine the reactions from that one!

If anything, Miranda's Cerberus-issue *****-suit is just as bad, because with all her apparent-perfection, does she really need something that tight to shine out of it? She could dazzle in a suit of actual armour with that face and figure. So could Samara for that matter. Instead we go with crotch-hugging rubbery stuff or the queen mother of plunging necklines! And some then say that's them being in control of their sexuality, of using it against enemies as a weapon... but why not Jack? Oh, she's a nutjob, she hasn't got any self respect.

Call the organ grinder... I think the monkey needs CPR

Well she probably doesn't have a ton of self respect. Women who approach sex so casually generally don't. But I think her apperance and attitude are mostly just about keeping people away. As for Miranda and Samara, I think a lot of it boils down to sex sells. People tend to like characters more if they are attractive, it's as simple as that. But you can at least argue for Jack that it's too show off her tattoos, which I think is the main reason for the belt  br-- I mean nipple halter .

MegWithAMouth wrote...

That's why I like this thread. I've just started going through it and reading all of the pages and it seems you value quality over quantity here. I have to give you all credit for that.

Thanks for the support.

[axl99]

While Jack doesn't have a lot of respect for herself, it's not like she's lacking for confidence either.



After all, beauty isn't just about the T and A. There were people who were attracted to Jack regardless of appearance and manner. Murtock anyone? But sure, there's a small number of other things to like about Jack on a purely physical level. Her lithe figure, the curve of her back, a graceful neck, her delicate jaw, and the fact she's a hell of a kisser.



The fact Jack knows she's attractive - in any manner she thinks others perceives her - gives her more reason to push people away.



Funny we mention Samara in the earlier conversation, if we pry into her past we can see she isn't always the spotless do-gooder she usually was. Dunno if she ever touched drugs but in any case she ran with mercs and was as promiscuous as any other hardcore adventure-seeking asari. So in regards to living the wild life she can relate with Jack.



Here's wishing there was more squad interaction.

[BobbyTheI]

I mentioned this in another thread, but one reason I respect Jack most of all the female characters: SHE'S NOT ENTERING INTO A FIREFIGHT IN HIGH HEELS!

I'm a dude, and even I know that trying to do something like that is just asking for trouble. 

[Mondo47]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I mentioned this in another thread, but one reason I respect Jack most of all the female characters: SHE'S NOT ENTERING INTO A FIREFIGHT IN HIGH HEELS!

I'm a dude, and even I know that trying to do something like that is just asking for trouble. 

I nearly killed myself running for a bus in ones that high... gotta be using biotics for extra stability...

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I mentioned this in another thread, but one reason I respect Jack most of all the female characters: SHE'S NOT ENTERING INTO A FIREFIGHT IN HIGH HEELS!

I'm a dude, and even I know that trying to do something like that is just asking for trouble. 

Ha ya that's just one thing I don't understand. And for some reason, even after having previously gone through 5 playthroughs of the game, I have just realized that Samara also wears high heels. Is this some kind of special future fighting technique? That cannot be comfortable constantly wearing high heels let alone also wearing them during a fire fight where you've got to be able to move fast and hold uncomfortable positions.

axl99 wrote...

Funny we mention Samara in the earlier conversation, if we pry into her past we can see she isn't always the spotless do-gooder she usually was. Dunno if she ever touched drugs but in any case she ran with mercs and was as promiscuous as any other hardcore adventure-seeking asari. So in regards to living the wild life she can relate with Jack.

Ha ya as professional as Samara may act, she had her periods of promiscuity and being involved in not-so-legal activities. She says she used to be a dancer and sleep around a lot. I guess you can't blame her for getting a little crazy in her 400+ years of being alive.

Modifié par Jackal904, 08 mars 2010 - 02:27 .

[Mondo47]

Ok, keep reminding me I'm in the Matron Stage why don't you all...

Modifié par Mondo47, 08 mars 2010 - 02:58 .

[BobbyTheI]

Mondo47 wrote...

Ok, keep reminding me I'm in the Matron Stage why don't you all...

You?  No!  You don't look a day over 250! 

[royceclemens]

The thing about Jack's... Ahem... "Belt," is that yeah it looks goofy out of context, but it is somewhat justifiable. As I've said elsewhere, her tattoos are her warpaint. Whatever situation you get her into physically she wants you to know that she's a monstrous threat. Kind of like in the wild where the brightest colored animals and plants are the most poisonous.



Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Jackal904]

royceclemens wrote...

The thing about Jack's... Ahem... "Belt," is that yeah it looks goofy out of context, but it is somewhat justifiable. As I've said elsewhere, her tattoos are her warpaint. Whatever situation you get her into physically she wants you to know that she's a monstrous threat. Kind of like in the wild where the brightest colored animals and plants are the most poisonous.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I guess warpaint is a good way of putting it. The big omega symbol on her back is supposed to mean 'the end' I believe. And she does have D E A T H tattood on her fingers on her right hand. Just at first glance she looks like someone that will **** you up lol. I'm glad she doesn't have any tattoos on her face. She has such a great face, and as much as I like the tattoos on her body, I would hate to see tattoos on her face.

[Ilzairspar]

OK I have a question for you guys about her...nipple-halter (I honestly don't' know if I'd ever say that out loud)

What do you think that thing actually is in the sense of ME universe. After all in the real world it's one of the ways for Bioware to ensure they won't get a AO rating for their game. I mean, it looks like something that isn't normally considered for bare chest ware, like a weapon harness or something. But I'm just not sure.

Anyone have any speculation?

Modifié par Ilzairspar, 08 mars 2010 - 05:52 .

[BobbyTheI]

Ilzairspar wrote...

OK I have a question for you guys about her...nipple-halter (I honestly don't' know if I'd ever say that out loud)

What do you think that thing actually is in the sense of ME universe. After all in the real world it's one of the ways for Bioware to not ensure they won't get a AO rating for their game. I mean, it looks like something that isn't normally considered for bare chest ware, like a weapon harness or something. But I'm just not sure.

Anyone have any speculation?

Probably some part of her convict jumpsuit that she... modified in some fashion.  Maybe a belt off the suit that she pulled off in order to strap weapons to.

[royceclemens]

Well, I think it's...



Truth be told, I have no idea. Maybe it was either made specifically for her or there's a species of humanoid alien a hell of a lot less modest than we are who wear those that we haven't met yet.



Truth be told, I try not to think about the little logistical things about this game. There is more than one thread on this board analyzing why Wilson turned on Cerberus at the beginning. And I wondered too... Until I remembered it was just a tutorial mission and I didn't really care. If we graduated to the functionality of Jack's nipple belt, we'd all go mad.

[Ilzairspar]

ah but we need something to discuss when things get slow. I was looking at the pictures that have been posted instead of watching the Oscars. You just start...wondering the oddest things.

[Nastrod]

I think 1/2 the crew's uniforms are a bad idea for combat not just Jack. I love the look and it fits her very well though. For ME3 I think Bioware should do the same thing for the crew as Shep does. While the crew is on the Ship they have their street clothes on and they change when going on a mission.

Kinda interesting to think what Jack's combat armor would look like.

Modifié par Nastrod, 08 mars 2010 - 06:19 .

[Seraphael]

Mondo47 wrote...

It seems the gripe-du-jour about Jack at the moment is that her costume (pre-loyalty) screams of a lack of self respect... it goes along with that overt sexuality and bat**** craziness and amoral behaviour and...

Someone please give that old monkey on the organ a break... he's going to keel over and die if you keep working him like that.

Jack is a vulnerable character. She is the ruin she is because of her past. She wears it in her visual armour of tattoos, and her psychological armour of attitude and aggression. Having her boobs out on display is a facet of that projection; it's a challenge to others. Not for the people that would desire it, but those that don't. The rest can be read as a survival mechanism, but not the admittedly odd nipple-halter (that's my official name for it now that thing really can't be comfortable...). If she looked less like a half-starved teenage boy, you could argue it as a lack of self-respect maybe, but Jack is, you have to confess, very much in a niche as far as potential sex objects go. The ascant looks, the mutters behind hands in polite society, they all are what it's done for. It's not because she has no self-respect, it's because she wants to get that reaction. It's because she doesn't care what the norms think. She wants that, because she wants society at arms length. And these kinds of reactions from gamers show it's working in spades. Bravo design team - completely topless would have been even better... imagine the reactions from that one!

Good post, Mondo! Jack's unpopularity is indeed the highest accolade her many detractors could ever give Bioware.

As for completely topless...that would be over the top, so let's not go there please! I would love it, though, if Jack in ME3 (ink gods willing) eventually lets down her guard sufficiently to feel she doesn't have to project that hostility and "in your facedness" that keeps all but our Shepards at arms length.

[BobbyTheI]

Weird.

Of all the threads to come in to shut down, they pick the one where folks were discussing the stuff that they themselves wrote into the game? 

I mean, not that it was going anywhere productive, but still. Maybe it was the talk of Jack violating people that did it.  

[gneissguy2003]

I feel like I have to question something about myself whenever someone (especially those of you who have been heavy contributers as of late) in this thread says that they didn't like the reveal trailer for Jack or that it initially set them against her. I have to question myself because when I first saw her trailer I remember thinking, "Holy sh*t, she looks awesome!" I was trying to find whatever I could about her, watching all of the videos a dozen times over just to see if I could glean anything new from them. Hell, I remember showing the reveal to my wife because she's typically a fan of strong female characters in books, etc., and I told her, "Hey honey, you need to watch this trailer for this character because I think you'd really like her."

Don't get me wrong, I can understand to an extent why some people reacted negatively. I just wish I knew why my own initial reaction was so positive. I'm glad that, in the end, I was totally right about Jack and that she is such an amazing, dynamic character... but what did I see in her initially and why did it catch my eye? Maybe I'm just shallow and just really liked the nipple halter. 

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 08 mars 2010 - 08:04 .

[Nastrod]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

I feel like I have to question something about myself whenever someone (especially those of you who have been heavy contributers as of late) in this thread says that they didn't like the reveal trailer for Jack or that it initially set them against her. I have to question myself because when I first saw her trailer I remember thinking, "Holy sh*t, she looks awesome!" I was trying to find whatever I could about her, watching all of the videos a dozen times over just to see if I could glean anything new from them. Hell, I remember showing the reveal to my wife because she's typically a fan of strong female characters in books, etc., and I told her, "Hey honey, you need to watch this trailer for this character because I think you'd really like her."

Don't get me wrong, I can understand to an extent why some people reacted negatively. I just wish I knew why my own initial reaction was so positive. I'm glad that, in the end, I was totally right about Jack and that she is such an amazing, dynamic character... but what did I see in her initially and why did it catch my eye? Maybe I'm just shallow and just really liked the nipple halter. 

I also was really excited about her when I saw the reveal. I also did the same thing you did and yell to my wife to come check out the video. We both were saying she looks amazing. My wife even was saying now that is how you make a tough chick but doing it the right way. I knew from the first time I saw the reveal that she would more then likely be one of my favorite squad memebers and she more then certainly is.  I figured she would have a bad past in some form since she says mess with a scared girl enough and you can turn her into a all powerful biotic b***h.

Honestly I do not understand the Jack hate well I kinda do. I think some of it is pure superficial they are just turned off by the looks you know the tattoos and the bald look. I like the belt shirt and I think it is a great look for her character. Ok I admit not the best combat uniform but the look for her as a character is fine by me. Funny how many complain about seeing most of her breast but then many of them also talk about how sexy Miranda's butt or Tali's hips are.

Modifié par Nastrod, 08 mars 2010 - 09:52 .

[Anoleis]

that other Jack thread got locked up--because they were talking about Jack violating people..LOL

[BobbyTheI]

Anoleis wrote...

that other Jack thread got locked up--because they were talking about Jack violating people..LOL

Now THERE'S some fan-art I wouldn't mind seeing.  "Hey, Miranda!  Wanna see what I picked up in the Shin Akiba district?"

Put as many floating hearts around it as you want. 

[Daralii]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Anoleis wrote...

that other Jack thread got locked up--because they were talking about Jack violating people..LOL

Now THERE'S some fan-art I wouldn't mind seeing.  "Hey, Miranda!  Wanna see what I picked up in the Shin Akiba district?"

Put as many floating hearts around it as you want. 

Good old Rule 34...

[Epantiras]

Anoleis wrote...

that other Jack thread got locked up--because they were talking about Jack violating people..LOL

*facepalm*

[Mkrgross]

Mondo47 wrote...

It seems the gripe-du-jour about Jack at the moment is that her costume (pre-loyalty) screams of a lack of self respect... it goes along with that overt sexuality and bat**** craziness and amoral behaviour and...

Someone please give that old monkey on the organ a break... he's going to keel over and die if you keep working him like that.

Jack is a vulnerable character. She is the ruin she is because of her past. She wears it in her visual armour of tattoos, and her psychological armour of attitude and aggression. Having her boobs out on display is a facet of that projection; it's a challenge to others. Not for the people that would desire it, but those that don't. The rest can be read as a survival mechanism, but not the admittedly odd nipple-halter (that's my official name for it now that thing really can't be comfortable...). If she looked less like a half-starved teenage boy, you could argue it as a lack of self-respect maybe, but Jack is, you have to confess, very much in a niche as far as potential sex objects go. The ascant looks, the mutters behind hands in polite society, they all are what it's done for. It's not because she has no self-respect, it's because she wants to get that reaction. It's because she doesn't care what the norms think. She wants that, because she wants society at arms length. And these kinds of reactions from gamers show it's working in spades. Bravo design team - completely topless would have been even better... imagine the reactions from that one!

If anything, Miranda's Cerberus-issue *****-suit is just as bad, because with all her apparent-perfection, does she really need something that tight to shine out of it? She could dazzle in a suit of actual armour with that face and figure. So could Samara for that matter. Instead we go with crotch-hugging rubbery stuff or the queen mother of plunging necklines! And some then say that's them being in control of their sexuality, of using it against enemies as a weapon... but why not Jack? Oh, she's a nutjob, she hasn't got any self respect.

Call the organ grinder... I think the monkey needs CPR

I'll admit my first reaction to Subject Zero was that her baldness, tats, and language was all part of her being "badass." Which I had no problem with I was still anxious to meet her ingame. Now after playing the game a few times and getting to know her, I see all that, as her trying to put people off.

Sinead O'Conner once said that one of the reasons she shaved her head was so people would see her as an artist and not as a sex symbol. She knew that bald women had a stygma, makes perfect sense why Jack would keep the shaved head.

Tattoos today still have a reputation, yes it is easing up but it is still there, I have to where long sleeves for work.

Language, do I really need to say what effect this still has. (For good reason).

Her outfit, (Nipple-Halter,) again something to turn people off. Did quite well, look how many people hate it, there was even a thread created about it.

Her conversations, trying to make herself out to be so vile. Even Shepard's respones and questions feed this. (Why do you like killing so much? At one point I think Shepard asks her why she was so extreme, in response to one of her accolades).

And lastly, where she stays on the ship.

All these things just scream,"Leave me alone!"

Sorry if most of this has been said or discussed before, just wanted to tell the people here I've been thinking the samething.

Modifié par Mkrgross, 08 mars 2010 - 10:29 .

[Mkrgross]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

I feel like I have to question something about myself whenever someone (especially those of you who have been heavy contributers as of late) in this thread says that they didn't like the reveal trailer for Jack or that it initially set them against her. I have to question myself because when I first saw her trailer I remember thinking, "Holy sh*t, she looks awesome!" I was trying to find whatever I could about her, watching all of the videos a dozen times over just to see if I could glean anything new from them. Hell, I remember showing the reveal to my wife because she's typically a fan of strong female characters in books, etc., and I told her, "Hey honey, you need to watch this trailer for this character because I think you'd really like her."

Don't get me wrong, I can understand to an extent why some people reacted negatively. I just wish I knew why my own initial reaction was so positive. I'm glad that, in the end, I was totally right about Jack and that she is such an amazing, dynamic character... but what did I see in her initially and why did it catch my eye? Maybe I'm just shallow and just really liked the nipple halter. 

I liked her the moment they revealed her, I watched every video, and I even showed her off to my wife. She likes stong females characters and this one had tats. Bonus! So...no, you are not alone.

[gneissguy2003]

Huh... well, how about that? Apparently Jack has a strong fan base within the "married guys who's wife's prefer strong female characters" demographic.