20813 réponses à ce sujet

[drunken pyromaniac]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

http://social.biowar...ndex/2063268/20
This poster appears to have totally missed the Jack character, imo.

I find these comments to have a touch of misandry in them, actually.
Where does this thinking come from?  Is it from a misandric or radical feminist point of view, that no women should be portrayed as vulnerable, and that any relationship that a women has with a man, cannot be affected by that relationship, and it is only superficial?

Thank god, I thought I was the only one to think that argument was somewhat sexist. Evidently, some think that vulnerability equals weakness.

[Gethforceone]

Dominus5412 wrote...

No, we're too busy not giving a ****.

...And the award for best response I've heard all day goes to...

[Goat_Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
This poster appears to have totally missed the Jack character, imo.

I find these comments to have a touch of misandry in them, actually.
Where does this thinking come from?  Is it from a misandric or radical feminist point of view, that no women should be portrayed as vulnerable, and that any relationship that a women has with a man, cannot be affected by that relationship, and it is only superficial?

Interesting analysis, that vulnerability means they are open to change? Which also may be change for the better? (I wonder if they consider that) but of course, being affected by someone else is a sign of weakness in feminist's eyes, which may be true in some scenarios, very extreme scenarios.

I'm sure the mighty penis discussion has been brought up in this thread several times, and I lack the gameplayer's perspective in Jack's instance to really give an opinion on. Still, I imagine once again people are disregarding or aren't aware of the details and are over-simplifying.

EDIT for revelation.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 28 juillet 2010 - 10:33 .

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

Hey, wait a minute...do the Jackolytes even have a Fast-Response Character-Defense Squad?

What does this even mean?

[Goat_Shepard]

yorkj86 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Hey, wait a minute...do the Jackolytes even have a Fast-Response Character-Defense Squad?

What does this even mean?

A group of people who are united by, and obsessed with, the defense of a character they like, on an online forum.  They feel as if they have let the character down by not making sure everyone knows that their opinions are wrong, in their interpretation of a character.

And they must be first on the scene of any character bashing, but only if it's their favorite.

Jack could definitely use one, I've read stuff more awful than from any other hate group. Then again, sometimes I don't want to say anything because of how moronic it is.

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

A group of people who are united by, and obsessed with, the defense of a character they like, on an online forum.  They feel as if they have let the character down by not making sure everyone knows that their opinions are wrong, in their interpretation of a character.

smh

[Goat_Shepard]

yorkj86 wrote...
Nah, we don't need one.  Do you think they would be convinced, no matter how well we argue?  There's a difference between being a fan of a character, and letting that character's fandom define one's self as a fan of that character.

EDIT: Jackolytes seem to understand

Well, by all appearances you would send them into denial, but no matter what, people will think twice. There's always the silent lurker who truly learns something, as well.

If you don't write your own story, someone else will write it for you. When that happens, you get this. It's sad that the character's dialogue and actions don't speak for themselves, but a little edumacation seems to be needed around this "community".

Otherwise you end up like Johnny with migrains

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Does anyone consistently factor roleplay in to their process of choosing squadmates?

I will admit that I always bring Jack with me no matter the situation. No matter the difficulty, no matter what Shepard I'm using, no matter the mission, I always bring Jack with me . But it's not just because she's my favorite character, with active squad power usage off, she is very useful with pull. Once I went active-squad-power-usage-off I never went back. I wish I had a capture card because then I'd make a video that shows how useful she is, even on higher difficulties (of course Samara could do the same, and she has an assault rifle). Jack's usefulness in combat is severely underrated.

And for the record, Jack is no "squishier" than any other squadmate (besides Grunt of course) in combat. It's just that when she uses the shotgun she becomes aggressive and suddenly loses all sense of self-preservation. Having her use the pistol makes her less likely to turn into Rambo. The decrease in firepower from the shotgun to the pistol isn't that big of a deal anyway. Unless a squadmate is using a sniper rifle, their weapon damage is pretty insignificant. Her ability to use pull often is all that really matters.

As for the other squadmate that I bring, it's usually either Grunt or Garrus. Which one I choose depends on the class I'm playing as.

Mondo47 wrote...

More guns and armour?

Jeez, BioWare, the guns we have do the bastard job already! Give us some more alternative costumes so we can play dressup some more!

Erm... I didn't say that, ok?

Well if they give us an awesome pistol (which it looks like they're going to) I'll welcome it. Maybe then Jack could do some decent weapon damage. But I would also like a new alternate appearance pack, and I think what I would like from it is obvious.

Goddamn that visor....

Dominus5412 wrote...

No, we're too busy not giving a ****.

^ Very much this.

Modifié par Jackal904, 28 juillet 2010 - 11:11 .

[Goat_Shepard]

Jackal904 wrote...
I will admit that I always bring Jack with me no matter the situation. No matter the difficulty, no matter what Shepard I'm using, no matter the mission, I always bring Jack with me . But it's not just because she's my favorite character, with active squad power usage off, she is very useful with pull. Once I went active-squad-power-usage-off I never went back. I wish I had a capture card because then I'd make a video that shows how useful she is, even on higher difficulties (of course Samara could do the same, and she has an assault rifle). Jack's usefulness in combat is severely underrated.

I think it's easy for people to play one mission with someone, not understand how to use and direct them in combat, and then pan them as "bad" or even useless. While it's true some squaddies have an advantage on certain levels, all it takes is time, and I find you can develop a familiarity with their style and you can sync with them so they become exponentially more useful. That's what I hope to do in this next insanity run with Jack.

And for the record, Jack is no "squishier" than any other squadmate (besides Grunt of course) in combat.

Grunt served me well for long time, but after awhile of Insanity he is arguably more squishy, since he melee charges anything and everything and gets mauled.

It's just that when she uses the shotgun she becomes aggressive and suddenly loses all sense of self-preservation. Having her use the pistol makes her less likely to turn into Rambo. The decrease in firepower from the shotgun to the pistol isn't that big of a deal anyway. Unless a squadmate is using a sniper rifle, their weapon damage is pretty insignificant. Her ability to use pull often is all that really matters.

Indeed. On higher levels, those squaddies are limited to pretty much a Carnifex. Even without a shotgun, though, Miranda likes to play Rambo as well. Lots of power-wheel directing is required on my part, but to find that sync is a hell of a reward, since Shepard really would have a hard time commanding these misfits.

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Damn tension migrain.
I had an icepack on the back of my neck for an hour, and it did no good.  I just took a steaming hot shower, and I'm about to put the ice back on.  I'm going to get rid this SOB.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

I honestly don't know what a migrain feels like lol pretty care free over here. I hear a good neck massage does wonders, as well as meditative music. Even got some suggestions

And in order to not help your migrain, I know I should just shut up and try the romance, but if you do Jack's romance the right way, you are pretty much the only person who was offered sex from her and refused, right? So the comment in that quote doesn't seem to make sense at a very basic level.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 29 juillet 2010 - 12:37 .

[NICKjnp]

Mondo47 wrote...

More guns and armour?

Jeez, BioWare, the guns we have do the bastard job already! Give us some more alternative costumes so we can play dressup some more!

Erm... I didn't say that, ok?

Sorry but just like with academia's phrase: what is learned can not be unlearned..... What is posted on the Internet can not be unposted.

[axl99]

If pacing was an issue some people had with Jack's romance, wouldn't an extra scene showing even more development between her and Shepard ease the transition?

[NICKjnp]

I like the pacing for Morinth's romance. 

[Dominus5412]

Morinth is my favorite romance.

[Mondo47]

NICKjnp wrote...

Sorry but just like with academia's phrase: what is learned can not be unlearned..... What is posted on the Internet can not be unposted.

I challenge that statement! What is learned can be unlearned if I belt someone around the skull a few times with a 10lb lump hammer. Capice?

JohnnyDollar wrote...

http://social.biowar...ndex/2063268/20

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...
The worst of them all, though, is Jack. Again, I adore
her as a character, but the transition from "I'm a dangerous, angry
head-case" to "oh god, I'm so vulnerable, Shepard, hold me and protect
me with your mighty penis" is shockingly abrupt. I don't understand why
it's so slapped together. BioWare's writing staff usually excels at
pacing.

This poster appears to have totally missed the Jack character, imo.

I find these comments to have a touch of misandry in them, actually.
Where does this thinking come from?  Is it from a misandric or radical feminist point of view, that no women should be portrayed as vulnerable, and that any relationship that a women has with a man, cannot be affected by that relationship, and it is only superficial?

Well, there are a couple of ways to read this statement... one is that she'd be happier if "magic vagina" was in there too. Fair point to make, but still, you can't always get what you want. I think Tali would make a lovely shy little fledgling lesbian. She ain't one though. I'm not pissing and moaning about it like it totally destroys the character. She's not written that way, Jack's not written that way (regardless of how butch she might look).

Another is the timing of it all. Sorry, but every single relationship in the game is abrupt. Four or five short chats, and Tali's willing to risk death to play hide the sausage with me, Miranda has (almost) ceased to be a total cold fish to the point where she opts for sex in a public place, and Jack goes from projecting her iron-hard facade of unfeeling meanness to opening herself up to someone and risking being hurt all over again despite a lifetime of pain. They're all rushed because, hey, there's only enough space in the damn game. It's not like we can play shrink for Jack and actually help her get over her problems. This isn't DA:O where I can spend hours on end shooting the breeze with Leliana before I even get her remotely interested in scissoring. Zev's the only abrupt romance in that game, and he's a bit of a man-wh*re, so it doesn't count. ME2 is a shorter game, with a more truncated communication system because of the demands of central character recorded dialogue. It's that short because of game mechanics and data storage. Simple as.

Or it's the fact that Jack softens up to a man. This has to be the most worrying of all (personally, I think it's the timing she's talking about though, Johnny). I mean, for a woman to be rendered weak and pathetic because she chooses a relationship with a man? Yeesh, Valerie Solanas is in the house. Well, I am vulnerable at times, and sometimes I don't deal with my vulnerabilites myself; I turn to a man to strengthen me. I could turn to a woman too, for that matter, but that's not the point here. The point is, if that makes me weak, then I'm proud to be guilty as charged. And I've been profoundly affected by relationships with members of both sexes, and based on my own personal experience, I can't say either offers superior support to the other. It's about the same, because aside from superficial physical differences and variance in personality, intelligence and experience, we're all the same species. We're not really from Venus and Mars, you know?

Like I said, I really think this poster was talking about the timing of Jack's turn from stone cold b*tch to cuddlebunny. It is abrupt, yes, but so is everything else in the game. It's not just Jack it effects.

[NICKjnp]

Non ho capito!