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[Goat_Shepard]

Urdaniel wrote...
EDIT: I don't know why, but I can just see Jack calling Shep a pervert for some reason or another.  This despite
the fact that, on average, she's experienced a heck of a lot more of the seedier side of the galaxy than Shep ever has (except maybe Earthborns and/or Ruthlesses).

Indeed, unless she was playing a joke on him

Epantiras wrote...
"You did what? Pervert!"

:-P sorry, I could not resist. This screenshots is screaming "caption me".

Shepard: "What?"

Jack: "You DON'T do ass to mouth!"

"What!? I would never! Who told you that?"

"Haha, Shepard, you're so easy to fuck with".

yorkj86 wrote...

Adorably flustered Jack looks adorably flustered.

Again, no idea when this was taken

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 06 août 2010 - 06:49 .

[Mondo47]

Just so you know - I've not forgotten about my Jackfic for the day I promised yesterday... I'm in hormone-crash mode, though, and I'm not in the right frame of mind for writing an amusing Jack tale. I'll get to it in due course, worry not. I might write something else later on to make up for it, but it'll probably be a little more introspective and serious than what I was working on.



(wow... Jack really looks like she's gonna bite Miranda's nose off in this one; eeevil smirk, angry eyes...)

[Shadow555r]

Urdaniel wrote...

First off, thanks for all the kind words.  As a more tangible expression of my appreciation, I give you Day 5 of

Things Worth Keeping

Now, don't get TOO excited.  First off, the updating process is still  ongoing, so the changes to chapter 5 haven't shown up properly (and I may have to do some gerrymandering to get the update date to update properly [confused yet?]).

Second, it's part 1 of 2.  I explain in more detail in the author's notes, but the short version: chapter is pretty long, folks have been patiently waiting, thought I'd express my thanks by splitting it into two so there's something to read.  I think the initial part can stand on its own, and the break point isn't a cliffhanger, so I hope no one will complain too much about waiting for part 2.  'Nuff said.

Third, @Jackal: You may or may not remember that I hinted that Days 5 and 6 were going to be something of a change from those that preceded them.  One way that manifested itself was the length of Day 5 (unintended).  The other is that there's going to be more interaction with people outside their little apartment-world on those days (despite the visit to Pinnacle on D2, most of the interaction there took place off-stage).  It'll be most obvious on D5-2 and D6 (both of which, as I've said before, I hope land on their feet).

Finally, just to set myself up to get hoisted on my own petard, I already have the rough beginnings for something that takes place post-ME3.  No more details than that; I'm afraid I'm going to be in enough trouble already as it is.  TWK will be finished before that ever sees the light of day though; it's only fair to the audience.  And it may never see the light of day if I get skittish enough about it.

Couple more things:

a) I'd like to say Jack is a cat person, but I think they're too similar to get along for extended periods.

@Goat_Shepard: Do you have the full screenie where the avatar you were using just prior to your current one was taken from?  (I'm hoping that question made sense)  Seeing as how you posted the full pic where you got your most recent one, I thought I might beg you to post the other as well.  Thanks either way.

This is just EPIC, i read all 5 chapters that youve put up and all I can say is WOW, pulled on the heartstrings a little. Bravo man, you have tapped into Jack and made her real. Can't wait to see more

[Jackal904]

@Urdaniel

Chapter 5, was, amazing... It's difficult to pick out certain parts that I liked, because, well, I liked it all very much . But one aspect that I especially liked was Jack's concern over when they'll eventually return to business as usual on the Normandy. I hadn't even thought about it until you brought it up. I'm not sure what your plans are after Jack and Shepard's vacation is over in this fanfic (besides your post ME3 ideas), thus concluding it, but maybe some future ME2 DLC (mainly the supposed "bridging" DLC) could allow you to continue the story once their back on the Normandy. Like I said, I'm not sure what short term plans you have after this fanfic (if any), so I'm just throwing some ideas out there. Of course I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to take a break after you're finished with TWK.

Urdaniel wrote...

@Jackal: If ME3 invalidates the concept (heck, the Shadow Broker DLC might do that too - a hint!), then the story becomes an alternate-universe one where things shake out to let me have my fun.  

Haha, there you go .
 

@york:  Jack doesn't just seem needy.  I'll be honest - as I've written her, she IS needy.  In my opinion (and I could be dead wrong, in which case I fully expect all of the Jackolytes to call me on it), this fits in with her known character/is tempered by the following:

First - She only exhibits this in private, and then only with Shepard.  I think we can all agree that she'd die before letting anyone other than him see this side of her.

Second - What you said.  She has come or is slowly coming around to, the realization that Shepard is for real.  And that she wants to avoid the situation that happened with Murtock.  And that all of them - her, Shepard, even the cheerleader and TIM, may all be living on borrowed time.  There are also certain developments come Day 6 & 7 that play into this (more hints!).  Jack has always lived in the moment, albeit for different reasons before Shepard.  When something (or someone) this big and important shows up and proves to not be just another lie, I would fully expect her to want to live for every moment she could beg, borrow, steal, or kill for.

Third - As the passage you quoted implies, she's still not completely convinced that she could be this lucky.  She's never really gotten lucky before.  Everything she's gotten she's taken by force.  And here's Shepard who takes the first step, makes the first move, offers first instead of just taking or asking.  Her neediness is just one more facet of her trying to get the situation she's in with Shep to register in both heart and mind.  I see it along the lines of constantly pinching herself to make sure she's awake.

I completely agree. Based on Jack's actions and dialogue in-game, I also think this is how she would act and think. A key aspect is that she only acts needy when her and Shepard are alone, which like Urdaniel said, is reasonable considering her situation. Around others though, she'd whoop Shepard's ass before even hugging him. 

Another thing I like is the struggle Jack is having with simply trying to convince herself that her current situation is real. She has this constant 'too good to be true' feeling, which adds an interesting layer of depth to her relationship with Shepard.

My only gripe, and it's a small one, is Jack's apparent hatred of personal pronouns and the word "the" .
Examples:
"Got that part. Look, know I gave you **** before-"
"Anyway, time I got on your case about running around,[...]"
"Yeah. Wasn't just busting your balls for the fun of it. Not much, anyhow. Meant it."

It's fine once in a while. I think it just needs to be toned down a bit. She's definitely guilty of that kind of speech in the game, but only a few times.

Again, great job, and I look forward to future chapters .

[Urdaniel]

Thanks again for the comments, everyone.  Some quick points:

@Sundown:

Glad you're liking it so far.  Sorry I haven't read your stuff yet (it's saved to a file though), but apart from the fear of getting too influenced by other folks' work, there's the very real intimidation factor of reading someone else's stuff and thinking "Oh crap, my stuff looks like s--t compared to this."  Heck, it took a lot for me to post Day 1, what with all the creative, insightful minds inhabiting this thread.  You all know who you are.  I won't enumerate for fear of forgetting someone.

A lot of folks seem to like Day 4.  Quite apart from the RL problems that delayed Day 5, I wrestled most with the concepts in Day 4 before closing my eyes and just posting it.  I guess my instincts are still good sometimes.


@Jackal:

- Don't know what I'm doing post-TWK re: Jack/Shep.  Only thing I could think of is the post-ME3 thing which is far off enough that it's really a separate narrative that just happens to include our favorite pair.  Frankly, TWK is making me go winchester on ideas, even the ones that originated as gems of inspiration from all the posters on this thread.  Maybe I should resist the urge to cram lots of stuff into each chapter, but I never personally went in for the one page and out type of fic; as it stands, I'd rather be writing novel-length stuff, so TWK is actually pretty short compared to my usual preferences.  And no, I'm not a professional author, though I CAN dream about raking in as much money as Rowling and Meyer.  Money may not be everything, but it can sure make a lot of stuff less worrisome.  To get back on track, I'll see if Overlord (got it but haven't played it yet) and the Shadow Broker DLC give me some more stepping-off points.

- Jack's speech pattern is my attempt to make the dialogue less stiff.  Obviously a not-entirely-successful one.  It's kind of gotten into my head that using a lot of articles and personal pronouns makes her speech sound too "formal" (rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly).  Still trying to find a balance between the stilted dialogue of Day 1 and the rather too laconic dialogue of subsequent chapters.  I'll just try and keep in mind what Mondo and royce said about dialogue being the stumbling block of most writers.  Makes me feel better. 


And yes, I'm riding the thread while I'm waiting for a gd phone call.  Quick, someone post some better insights about Jack than mine so we don't get derailed any more than I've already done! 


EDIT: A-ha!  I just remembered that I MAY have an idea for post-TWK.  Now, call it the lazy/easy way out, but I have a bunch of scenes written that, for one reason or another, did not make it into the final cut(s) of their respective chapters.  I was tossing around the idea of posting them as something along the lines of a "Deleted Scenes" segment like on a DVD, with a little commentary to accompany them explaining why I dumped them or what I was hoping to accomplish with them but never managed to.  Some (okay, one) can actually be considered "alternate angles" for actual, published scenes, a bit of "what if" as it were.  But beyond that, I got nothing, sadly (for now anyway).

Modifié par Urdaniel, 06 août 2010 - 09:58 .

[Andaius20]

[kennyv217]

Hehe, brought Jack with me to Zorlus and when Jedore says "There is only one nature of success: kill or be killed" over the loudspeaker, Jack sais "I already wanna kills this person." Lol, she's awesome

[DarthCaine]

@Andaius20



Heh, it's amazing how much your DAO character looks like your Shepard

[Errationatus]

@Urdaniel -

Excellent stuff.  Enjoyed it immensely.  This Week of yours is shaping up quite well, in my opinion - for what that's worth. 

Doubting your abilities is the hallmark of anyone talented, Urdanny - keeps you sharp.  Keep at it.  People with ability always doubt anything.  Those who never doubt do nothing but cause trouble and write utter crap like Twilight.

I've finished PART FOUR of my dumb crapola, so it'll be a bit of a letdown after the excellent stuff being laid out here, but at least Goat will have something extra to read.  

EDIT: forgot a "y".

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 07 août 2010 - 03:03 .

[Urdaniel]

@Jake - Thanks for the vote of support, Jake.  Like I've said before, I'm just glad that folks like what I'm doing.  And as far as I'm concerned, every opinion is important - except those of obvious trolls and flamers.

And I apologize for not reading your fic (yet).  As I mentioned to Sundown, it's the whole not wanting to be influenced/intimidated thing.  What little I've allowed myself to skim from all the recently posted stuff looks damn good from where I'm sitting.  Guess it just means that I'll have a pleasantly large amount of backlog to read through when I finish up TWK.

@ Andalus - I have to second DarthCaine on that.  I personally have loads of trouble replicating faces in the generators (I believe I mentioned way way back in the infancy of this thread that Gabriel ended up looking like a younger Mel Brooks), so what you've achieved is pretty impressive.  And if I haven't said it before, thanks for all your screenies (and thanks of course to everyone else who's ever posted anything of theirs - screenies, fiction, original art, all of it).  Can never have too much of Jack.  Now if I only had the sense of timing and composition to contribute some of my own. 

[Jackal904]

@Sundown

I really liked that last fic. Again, I like how Jack wants so much to help Shepard with his past like he helped her. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when they get to Torfan .

Urdaniel wrote...

Maybe I should resist the urge to cram lots of stuff into each chapter, but I never personally went in for the one page and out type of fic; as it stands, I'd rather be writing novel-length stuff, so TWK is actually pretty short compared to my usual preferences.

Damn, that's short for you? I love the length each chapter of TWK has been so far. They're lengthy yet still maintain my interest through the whole chapter. You could always write lengthy chapters and just split them into parts like you are with chapter 5. Or you could simply write long ass chapters as one part .

- Jack's speech pattern is my attempt to make the dialogue less stiff.  Obviously a not-entirely-successful one.  It's kind of gotten into my head that using a lot of articles and personal pronouns makes her speech sound too "formal" (rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly).

Yeah I completely understand what you were trying to do. The dialogue is very good though. I just think a little overcompensation was the problem.

A-ha!  I just remembered that I MAY have an idea for post-TWK.

Woot . I don't know how you come up with so much great material. I'm the kind of person who just barely reaches the minimum page requirement for school papers .

[MHRazer]

Urdaniel wrote...
Maybe I should resist the urge to cram lots of stuff into each chapter, but I never personally went in for the one page and out type of fic; as it stands, I'd rather be writing novel-length stuff, so TWK is actually pretty short compared to my usual preferences.

Personally, I like the length you've been doing. It's not prohibitively long, and cutting it too short would be unfortunate. I'll say that not once have I read one of your chapters and thought "Damn, when is he gonna wrap this up?"

Urdaniel wrote...
- Jack's speech pattern is my attempt to make the dialogue less stiff.  Obviously a not-entirely-successful one.  It's kind of gotten into my head that using a lot of articles and personal pronouns makes her speech sound too "formal" (rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly).  Still trying to find a balance between the stilted dialogue of Day 1 and the rather too laconic dialogue of subsequent chapters.  I'll just try and keep in mind what Mondo and royce said about dialogue being the stumbling block of most writers.  Makes me feel better. 

Again, for me if you're going to err one way or the other, I'd lean toward the too informal route. Jack speaking too formally/sophisticated even once in a fic jumps out of the page at me much more than a little extra casualness. Of course you should try and nail it, but I think it's safer to lean toward the informal.

That being said, it's not like you're far off. As far as I'm concerned you don't need to change a thing in how you've handled the conversation. But I'm easily pleased 

[Urdaniel]

Jackal904 wrote...
Woot . I don't know how you come up with so much great material. I'm the kind of person who just barely reaches the minimum page requirement for school papers .

Oh it's easy.  And no, I'm not being facetious; just giving credit where credit is due.  Which is to say, I'm crediting the people on this thread for a lot of what I've done.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: it often starts with a gem of inspiration (for example, Mondo's motivational that referenced the cushion and wheelchair or Razor wondering about what would happen if they left the apartment) which I then flesh out.  So in that sense, my job is easy.  And I'll say this again: without the folks on this thread offering their encouragement and insight (and not to forget the people giving me positive reviews on FFN) I could never have gotten this far.  Like Gabriel says: Can't do it alone.  And frankly, wouldn't want to do it alone either.  So every time any of you read something of mine that you like, or that provokes you in a good way even if you don't strictly like it per se, don't just praise me.  Pat yourselves on the back too.  

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Urdaniel,

I'm looking forward to seeing how you will write Jack trying to reconcile her desire to spend as much time as she can with Shepard, while having her acknowledge that letting their relationship become too passionate and centered around spending time with each other runs the risk of burning the relationship out.  You'll probably accomplish that, or bypass having to do that, by having them let go of one another, only to return to one another, later.

. I don't recall Urdaniel saying, or even hinting that that's going to happen. In fact, from what I've gathered, the last thing Jack would be concerned with is burning out their relationship.

[Urdaniel]

@JD - Glad you liked my interpretation of it.  The idea for that little scene came, of course, from this very thread.  Don't remember who posited it first, but I'm grateful they did.

@york & Jackal:

You both raise good points.  Essentially, I agree with Jackal that Jack might not have the foresight or restraint to rein herself in so they don't burn out.  Or she may simply not care, given her perception that their time is limited (coming from both her personal history/baggage as well as the extremely dangerous nature of the task ahead of them) and her consequent desire to waste as little of it as possible.  However, that in no way means that they WON'T burn out; it's certainly a possibility, although it may not be one that I decide to tackle, given my love of unicorns, moonbeams, and happy endings.  And even if I do, I may get around it in the manner york suggests.  After all, once they return to the Normandy, there are plenty of perfectly plausible reasons for them to not spend excessive amounts of time together, even though they're still together (in the relationship sense) and still on the same ship.

In fact, I have Jack treat this as a near-certainty.  She knows the stakes and she knows Shepard won't be a goldbricker (and she'd never want him to be one anyway), which is why the prospect of their time on Intai'Sei drawing to a close makes her sad.  She knows there may never be another chance to be this close for this long with this little (relatively speaking) pressure from outside forces.  Additionally, she knows (or at least fears) that even a victory will come at no small personal cost to each of them, and may well cost some or all of them everything.  She is, obviously, most (if not solely) concerned about the personal cost to her and Shep; she would feel this especially keenly due to her own personal history and her belief that she destroys the things she touches, that she doesn't deserve happiness, that she's never gotten a break she hasn't taken for herself, etc. etc.  She may even decide to put up her old emotional armor again - placing a certain emotional remove between herself and her feelings just in case the worst-case scenario comes to pass.  I don't personally consider this possibility particularly likely within the context of my version of their story, however.  I tend to gravitate toward the opinion that when Jack finally lets herself believe in their relationship, she'll throw herself into it with as much verve and abandon as she did when she took out the YMIRs on Purgatory, regardless of what tomorrow might bring (in fact she'd probably do it BECAUSE of what tomorrow might bring).

That said, york's suggestion of having them let one another go, only to return to each other later, actually somewhat echoes something I was playing with for use in my post-TWK timeline.  Oh noes!  More portentous hints!  


EDITed in an attempt to organize my thoughts better.  Not sure if it worked.

Modifié par Urdaniel, 07 août 2010 - 08:20 .

[StefanBW]

So I was thinking the other day about how romance confrontations can turn out in ME3. We all know that Jack doesn't get along very well with a Cerberus cheerleader. Think she will get along better with an Alliance one? 

[The Questioning Motive]

Think Jack will be written out of the entire story? I really hope not. I love her too much. D:

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

stefanbw wrote...

So I was thinking the other day about how romance confrontations can turn out in ME3. We all know that Jack doesn't get along very well with a Cerberus cheerleader. Think she will get along better with an Alliance one? 

That's a good question.  I don't know how Jack would get along with Ashley.  They are both very strong and fiercely independent.  Jack doesn't seem to have much respect for organizations, though, since they tend to make a habit of using people, one way or another.

If there was a romantic conflict between Jack and Ashley in ME3, Jack and Ashley might realize their common traits, and decide that Shepard is a manipulative sociopath, who likes to play with the emotions of strong women.

I'd prefer that they would fight eachother because that would be more entertaining . Not like an actual brawl because well, that would end quickly with a certain tattoo'd girl obviously achieving victory. But a fight similar to Jack and Miranda's arguement, but a bit lengthier, would certainly be interesting.

But I also don't think Jack would be a fan of an Alliance "cheerleader." I don't think she would be a fan of the Alliance in general. After all, (although she may not know this) Cerberus was part of the Alliance but they ended up going rogue, yet the Alliance has done nothing about them.