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[Jackal904]

Mondo47 wrote...

Or you discover she has, like, feelings! Shock horror! I thought she was just gonna ride the Cole Train with me! What a p*ssy - she has a heart under it all!

I've seen a few comments like that where people are say, "I liked Jack until she got all emotional. I thought she was this super tough badass chick." I want to say to them, "Buddy, you're playing a freaking BioWare game. This isn't Gears of War. Jack is not a female version of Marcus Fenix. It's called character depth, look it up." And the thought that tough women can't have emotions is just completely idiotic.

But you're probably right about BioWare intentionally falsifying Jack's character by labeling her a psychopath. Although I'm sure part of the reason for labeling her a psycho is because it sounds "sup3r b4d4ss!!1", and they wanted ME2 to look more EXTREME!!!


@Epantiras

Lmao . I love that look on Jack's face.

Modifié par Jackal904, 08 août 2010 - 04:14 .

[NICKjnp]

adriano_c wrote...

Epantiras wrote...

I'd experiment on that, if I had the skills/tools :-(

Yeah, I know what you mean. I looked into modding stuff several months ago, managed to figure out a few things, took some screen caps...

...and promptly forgot how to do all of it. Not even sure what program is required anymore. Right now I'd like to be able to give Jack the Blackstorm and/or Cain.

Anyone know if that's possible?

You just have to use the gibbed save editor.  Replace one of her weapons with it... watch out though because heavy weapons fire harms squadmates as well.  I gave her the grenade launcher once but had to switch her back to the pistol because she kept killing Miranda (and Shep) on Horizon.  The Cain would really cause problems.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 08 août 2010 - 04:28 .

[axl99]

The first half of Jack's reveal trailer was awesome, from the first sentence and the first shot of the tattoos and the scars till the YMIR explosion. That spoke volumes to me.

Modifié par axl99, 08 août 2010 - 05:43 .

[NICKjnp]

I'm fatally attracted to all women... I don't have preference. However latina women seem to be attracted to me... and I like curves (so I'm fine with it).

[Urdaniel]

Great comic, Epantiras.  Like a lot of other folks, I love Jack's expression in panel 3.  Make all you want, we'll take it all. 

Mondo's most-recently posted motivational led me to think about something not-strictly-Jack-related.  With Mordin aboard, Chakwas seems to get pushed to the back burner/second fiddle position.  But from everything we know about her, she's staggeringly competent in her own right - maybe not in an academic sense, but certainly in a practical one.  Strikes me as being a bit of a shame, as I find her a more than decent enough character.  I mean, she shouldn't just be relegated to being Joker's personal caregiver, despite her stated reason (one of them anyway) for following Shep and co. across the galaxy.  And I can certainly see her filling a mother confessor/older sister position on the ship (as Mondo demonstrated in her Jack/Chakwas quickfic) for at least some members of the crew.


EDIT: And speaking of Mondo, that latest bit of analysis you did on Bioware's marketing campaign just makes too much damned sense not to be true.  It's times like this where I feel irredeemably shallow/superficial.  

EDIT 2: @Nick - have you ever tried experimenting with the Collector Particle Beam or the Arc Projector?  Haven't done it myself (otherwise I'd answer my own question), but it strikes me that a lot of the problems associated with giving AI squaddies AoE weaponry might be solved by using something less indiscriminate.  Come to think of it, that might rule out the Arc Projector too....

Modifié par Urdaniel, 08 août 2010 - 06:44 .

[Pacifien]

Aw, I missed the chance to chime in on the psychopath discussion again.

The Illusive Man --> Psychopath

Jack --> All Powerful Biotic Bitch

[Pacifien]

Urdaniel wrote...
EDIT 2: @Nick - have you ever tried experimenting with the Collector Particle Beam or the Arc Projector?  Haven't done it myself (otherwise I'd answer my own question), but it strikes me that a lot of the problems associated with giving AI squaddies AoE weaponry might be solved by using something less indiscriminate.  Come to think of it, that might rule out the Arc Projector too....

You know what this reminds me of?

*cough*sig*cough*

I have to be shameless for a few days, sorry.

[NICKjnp]

Urdaniel wrote...

Great comic, Epantiras.  Like a lot of other folks, I love Jack's expression in panel 3.  Make all you want, we'll take it all. 

Mondo's most-recently posted motivational led me to think about something not-strictly-Jack-related.  With Mordin aboard, Chakwas seems to get pushed to the back burner/second fiddle position.  But from everything we know about her, she's staggeringly competent in her own right - maybe not in an academic sense, but certainly in a practical one.  Strikes me as being a bit of a shame, as I find her a more than decent enough character.  I mean, she shouldn't just be relegated to being Joker's personal caregiver, despite her stated reason (one of them anyway) for following Shep and co. across the galaxy.  And I can certainly see her filling a mother confessor/older sister position on the ship (as Mondo demonstrated in her Jack/Chakwas quickfic) for at least some members of the crew.


EDIT: And speaking of Mondo, that latest bit of analysis you did on Bioware's marketing campaign just makes too much damned sense not to be true.  It's times like this where I feel irredeemably shallow/superficial.  

EDIT 2: @Nick - have you ever tried experimenting with the Collector Particle Beam or the Arc Projector?  Haven't done it myself (otherwise I'd answer my own question), but it strikes me that a lot of the problems associated with giving AI squaddies AoE weaponry might be solved by using something less indiscriminate.  Come to think of it, that might rule out the Arc Projector too....

They still might end up hitting you... enemies have a tendency to swarm Shepard.  I might give Jack the Particle Beam next time around but the other weapons are a little too unforgiving to give to squadmates.  I almost gave Grunt the Cain but I figured he would end up using it on himself since he like to run up into enemies faces.

[Mondo47]

I only went for Mordin really because he offers to set the broken bones that are in the post when he has the "birds and bees" talk with a male Shep regarding Jack (and I only saw it again last night as I finally finished off Marcus Shepard's adventures on the Normandy). Also, Dr Chakwas is almost certain to have a pretty close friendship with Shep; they've been through a lot of sh*t together, it's almost certain he'll look on her with a certain air, perhaps being a sort of favorite aunt to him. So, just think of it from a male perspective for a second; you've just done yourself a fairly serious mischief having sex with your girlfriend - are you really going to go to her to get it fixed up?

Dr Chakwas: I'm still left wondering, Commander... you've not been off the ship in two days, and yet you've managed to dislocate your shoulder and your hip, tear a ligament in your left leg, break your nose and slip a disc. How on earth did this happen?

Shep: Erm... I... er... I fell down some stairs?

Dr Chakwas: (not buying a word of it) Of course you did, Commander...

[Urdaniel]

@Pacifien: Ach, is this one of those peanut butter/chocolate things?  Did I just step into the middle of something (yes I clicked on your sig so I'm thinking I did)?  My bad.    Seeing as how I only ever visit this one thread, I really can't speak from experience re: Bioware's handling of thread categorization/separation, so I'll take your word for it.

[NICKjnp]

Shep: Grunt was giving me a lesson on how to hit the weak spots on humans.



Dr Chakwas: Uh-huh... so when should I be expecting Jack?



Shep: I told her to wait an hour or two.

[Urdaniel]

@NICK - I see.  Thanks for the quick answer.  I personally take the lazy way and just switch around regular-weapon loadouts for the squad (though I'd love to be able to give squaddies more than just two weapons).  Never seriously considered giving any of them a heavy (though I suppose unlimited heavy ammo is a major attraction).

Good addition to the Shep/Chakwas exchange, btw.

Mondo47 wrote...

I only went for Mordin really because he offers to set the broken bones that are in the post when he has the "birds and bees" talk with a male Shep regarding Jack (and I only saw it again last night as I finally finished off Marcus Shepard's adventures on the Normandy). Also, Dr Chakwas is almost certain to have a pretty close friendship with Shep; they've been through a lot of sh*t together, it's almost certain he'll look on her with a certain air, perhaps being a sort of favorite aunt to him. So, just think of it from a male perspective for a second; you've just done yourself a fairly serious mischief having sex with your girlfriend - are you really going to go to her to get it fixed up?

Dr Chakwas: I'm still left wondering, Commander... you've not been off the ship in two days, and yet you've managed to dislocate your shoulder and your hip, tear a ligament in your left leg, break your nose and slip a disc. How on earth did this happen?

Shep: Erm... I... er... I fell down some stairs?

Dr Chakwas: (not buying a word of it) Of course you did, Commander...

Actually, that exchange rather illustrates why I might (and I stress MIGHT) go to Chakwas anyway.  When your favorite aunt is that non-judgmental/naggy/what have you, I wouldn't personally have a problem bringing stuff like that to her.  Of course, that might just be me.


EDIT: added some stuff to the @Nick part

Modifié par Urdaniel, 08 août 2010 - 07:03 .

[Pacifien]

Didn't mean to pick on you, Urdaniel. I've discussed strategy plenty in the Jack thread. Just starting my own personal revolution, but promoting it on the character threads seems heavy risk. Only mentioned it here 'cause I know you love me. Even if I haven't discussed Jack in over a week or something.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Yes, I didn't like that Dr. Chakwas was rendered practically obsolete by Mordin.  Have both characters, if you must, but don't have her there only so you can buy her booze, and then later pull her out of a Collector pod.  Is nostalgia a good enough reason to have her character in the game?

I hadn't seen the FFTL trailers until after I beat ME2, so I didn't have my perception of Jack's character biased by Bioware's advertising.  It is deliciously ironic that her character ended up appealing mostly to people who can look beyond the badass toughgrrrrrl front.  I doubt that that was Bioware's intention, though.  That's many layers of psychological advertising.

As an aside, holy ****, David Bowie is in "The Prestige".

Playing Tesla no less!

But yes, as an aside on this subject, to be able to talk to Dr Chakwas about the crew, much the same way you do with Joker and Kelly, but with a medical bent (Miranda's genetic tailoring, Garrus's injuries post-Omega, Jack's implants, Grunt's "perfection", etc.) would have been a great touch and made her a part of the f*cking crew as opposed to fuel for my Helen Mirren fantasies

[Goat_Shepard]

Mondo47 wrote...
Ah, the ol' "Psychopath" label again, eh?

The more people like to regurgitate that from the advertising, the more I think it was a very deliberate and actually quite clever move on the part of BioWare.

You make a good point. Advertising at it's finest. Deception was key, since the other trailers were as cheesy as you would expect as well, even though they were more in-character. You even said so yourself that Subject Zero's intro made you think "Romance for renegades", and I thought that too. Miranda seemed like the paragon LI, she's got a soft accent and is even wearing white like some kind of angel. Jack does have a renegade path (two?) but she's proven to be much more than that. And I'm definitely walking the paragon path in this upcoming playthrough, and the truthiness says you will be right.

So, we can all pat ourselves on the back for being good little boys and girls and taking the path that BioWare wanted us to take. The dummies all drove straight around the bend because of that detour sign in the middle of the road.

Ya know, it doesn't help that Jack is physically detoured from the ship My first playthrough I think took me some time to find her, then I go downstairs and "WHOA there you are, Jack!" as Shepard leans over with his hands on his knees sweating and panting.

@Johnny
Nice avatar. Coincidence's are awesome, like my Jack Shepard.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 08 août 2010 - 07:06 .

[Pacifien]

You know, I think Miranda is really more of a romance for renegades. Depending on how you play your renegade, I guess. Miranda is a results at all cost in the name of the mission, which is a big part of being a renegade in ME. Jack might like her ultraviolence, but I really don't think she goes out of her way to cause shit. She just makes sure those who try to mess with her first end up regretting it. Wait, I guess that's renegade, too. Well.... does that make Tali the paragon romance then?

[NICKjnp]

In my ME universe there is no Tali romance.... ever. Jack is paragon and Miranda is renegon/paragade.

[Goat_Shepard]

yorkj86 wrote...
 I doubt that that was Bioware's intention, though.  That's many layers of psychological advertising.

Deception and advertising I guess can be called the same   It's like, Bioware wanted you to think Jack was a guy, but then they come out with the trailer. Idk, that always confused me.

Bioware loves Jack. Putting the badassery and the renegade pounce on display will gather an audience, and I really am surprised people will choose to avoid her. She isn't THAT extreme that you can't even talk to her after Purgatory. It's quite funny, really. It's just a game!

Pacifien wrote...
You know, I think Miranda is really more of a romance for renegades. Depending on how you play your renegade, I guess. Miranda is a results at all cost in the name of the mission, which is a big part of being a renegade in ME. Jack might like her ultraviolence, but I really don't think she goes out of her way to cause shit. She just makes sure those who try to mess with her first end up regretting it. Wait, I guess that's renegade, too. Well.... does that make Tali the paragon romance then?

I'm pretty sure "Oggle my body" and "I just want to get you in bed" and sex in Engineering is as renegade as you can go not counting the renegade pounce. You make a good point, though, "this isn't the time for love" and then getting in a relationship always struck me as odd. If you didn't mutiny in ME1, I'd say the same thing about Ashley's regs v.s fraternization.

Tali doesn't have a renegade "path", so it seems likely.

NICKjnp wrote...
In my ME universe there is no Tali romance.... ever. Jack is paragon and Miranda is renegon/paragade.

Cool story bro?

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 08 août 2010 - 07:25 .

[Pacifien]

Well, really, the choices in each game is that ME's universe for that single game. The fact I romanced one character in one game and another character in another game doesn't mean I have cheated on that character. Or saving the Council in one game and killing them in another means one decision overrided another. I never understood why I could mention going a certain route in a game and someone responds "How could you possible do that?!" Uh... 'cause it's a game? And it's not like I didn't do it another way in another game. Excuse me for not extending my devotion to a fictional character or morality choice. Unless we're talking the entire Firefly crew, I have much devotion to them. And despair. Not really.

Modifié par Pacifien, 08 août 2010 - 07:26 .

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...
Unless we're talking the entire Firefly crew, I have much devotion to them. And despair. Not really.

Only crew that could compare with the Normandy SR2. Truth.

And indeed you are right. I only get mad when people say they did something bad on their canon playthrough, and try to glorify it, because I have much devotion to these characters. I don't care that they killed them in their playthrough because it has no effect on me, but this dude sent me a link in a message chat to a screenshot of Jack dead and I RAAAAGED!!111!one

But only cuz he was a friend.

[NICKjnp]

Wash and Shepherd Book... RIP.

[Pacifien]

I killed Jack! 200 times! I'm surprised every time I say that in various character threads, they won't even consider how I did it all FOR SCIENCE! 'Cause creating the ultimate guide to the suicide mission is pointless, you should let everyone live every single time.

[NICKjnp]

I prefer just to watch the videos. If I want them dead... I'll just use the gibbed save editor before i import. But if you did it FOR SCIENCE... then it is ok I guess. I never kill Tali eventhough I like to mess with people about it. I actually like her... just not the romance they have for her.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 08 août 2010 - 07:39 .