20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Epantiras]

Jackal904 wrote...
I've seen a few comments like that where people are say, "I liked Jack until she got all emotional. I thought she was this super tough badass chick." I want to say to them, "Buddy, you're playing a freaking BioWare game. This isn't Gears of War. Jack is not a female version of Marcus Fenix. It's called character depth, look it up." And the thought that tough women can't have emotions is just completely idiotic.

Well... I have to admit that the paragon romance has too many flowers and butterflies for my tastes, mainly because that's the last Jack centered dialogue you get and it makes you wonder "is she still a badass?". If we were shown another cutscene in which she goes back to her old "saylor mouthed" self, it would be ok. *IF* she's the biotic specialist, she'll unleash hell on the collectors and that's good, but Samara does the same, so it doesn't count.

I also don't like that she always cries whenever Shep calls her in his cabin... that's like Jacob taking away his shirt whenever Femsheps wants cuddles. Ack! I NEED EYEBLEACH!

yorkj86 wrote...

Oh, Epantiras, we need a picture of the disgusted-face Jack has in that picture, on a plain background.

[Jackal904]

Sundown Native wrote...

Ahem...
Let's chill with the flaming GOW, please?

Hey, I'm a big fan of Gears 1 (I hate Gears 2 with a burning passion). I still play it all the time. It's just that Gears happened to be a perfect example for what I was talking about. It's a good game, but character depth isn't one of it's strengths.

yorkj86 wrote...

It is deliciously ironic that her character ended up appealing mostly to people who can look beyond the badass toughgrrrrrl front.  I doubt that that was Bioware's intention, though.  That's many layers of psychological advertising.

That is really interesting. Everyone thought Jack (at the time, SuZe) was in the game to attract people who like 'super badass stuff and big explosions!' And BioWare's marketing of her only supported that idea. Yet she turns out to be, imo, the deepest character in the game, and she ends up attracting the opposite type of people that everyone assumed she would appeal to. In interviews before ME2 was released, Casey Hudson said Jack actually has probably more depth than all the other characters, and that what she displays on the outside, doesn't exactly match the inside. So I'm not really sure what BioWare's plans were with her marketing. It seemed counter-intuitive. They were marketing a deep and complex character to shallow audience. Oh well.

[Jackal904]

Epantiras wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...
I've seen a few comments like that where people are say, "I liked Jack until she got all emotional. I thought she was this super tough badass chick." I want to say to them, "Buddy, you're playing a freaking BioWare game. This isn't Gears of War. Jack is not a female version of Marcus Fenix. It's called character depth, look it up." And the thought that tough women can't have emotions is just completely idiotic.

Well... I have to admit that the paragon romance has too many flowers and butterflies for my tastes, mainly because that's the last Jack centered dialogue you get and it makes you wonder "is she still a badass?". If we were shown another cutscene in which she goes back to her old "saylor mouthed" self, it would be ok. *IF* she's the biotic specialist, she'll unleash hell on the collectors and that's good, but Samara does the same, so it doesn't count.

Well we have no real post-"sex scene" dialogue, so you can't really know for sure. You can talk to her after the sex scene of course, but it's just old dialogue. But I doubt she's going to radiate rainbows and flowers in ME3 if you romanced her. I'm sure still remain a tough biotic b*tch.

I also don't like that she always cries whenever Shep calls her in his cabin... that's like Jacob taking away his shirt whenever Femsheps wants cuddles. Ack! I NEED EYEBLEACH!

That sounds like a bug or something, because it doesn't happen to me. But I've heard it happening with others too.

Modifié par Jackal904, 08 août 2010 - 07:54 .

[Urdaniel]

Jackal904 wrote...
So I'm not really sure what BioWare's plans were with her marketing. It seemed counter-intuitive. They were marketing a deep and complex character to shallow audience. Oh well.

I'll go with Mondo on this one.  BW was trying to see which members of the ostensibly-shallow audience could actually find the gem inside the hype.  And frankly, since those of us who gutted it out were rewarded beyond (to me at least) all reasonable expectation for doing so, by a developer that's increasingly turned to pandering to the lowest common denominator lately, well, I'm just happy and - I hate to say it - smugly satisfied.

[axl99]

Still not a fan of how some of the ads played out. That's not the dev's fault per se. I blame it on their or EA's marketing department.

[Epantiras]

Jackal904 wrote...
But I doubt she's going to radiate rainbows and flowers in ME3 if you romanced her. I'm sure still remain a tough biotic b*tch.

Radiating rainbows is already my FemShep's domain

Jackal904 wrote...
They were marketing a deep and complex character to shallow audience. Oh well.

Bioware marketing never cheases to amaze me. It's like Ellen Ripley trying to kill the Alien Queen by bedding Predator. And actually managing to get the Alien Queen killed in the end!

[NICKjnp]

I think that if they were going to do a psychopath trailer than they should have used Morinth. I don't think they understood what a psychopath really is.

[Goat_Shepard]

Pacifien wrote...

I killed Jack! 200 times! I'm surprised every time I say that in various character threads, they won't even consider how I did it all FOR SCIENCE!

But...Jack.....Akuze....countless lives for science

[adriano_c]

That's all? No. Facial structure of a bulldog.

[Quaay]

At least they got this face right

[Goat_Shepard]

Sundown Native wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I remember reading comments on the old Bioware boards.  In this case, specifically Miranda, and how beautiful and hot she was in the videos.  Talking about what a knockout her model is.  I never saw it, and still don't. 

Nose. Teeth.

That is all.

Actually, many believe the showing of the bewbs was too much of a spoiler. It kinda ruined her before I even played the game. When I saw the Jack renegade pounce in that trailer it didn't seem as climactic as the undressing, so I figured it would be optional.

Yvonne is hot, and Idk how, but she wasn't destroyed until I played the game. Massive editing can disguise certain assets, I guess, but then I wasn't paying much thought to them. Jack was just "HOLY **** WOW".

Quaay wrote...

At least they got this face right

And body. I mean come on, it's all...proportional!

And Johnny, admit, my avatar rocks yours.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 08 août 2010 - 09:08 .

[Goat_Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Yvonne is hot,

Not where I come from.

You're from the Flotilla?

And Johnny, admit, my avatar rocks yours.

That's a big negative there ghostrider.

See, with mine, you have to look in her eyes. It's training, so that you're not looking at her mouth when she's talking, which is very hard to do.

"Hey, I'm up here, buddy"

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 08 août 2010 - 10:12 .

[Shadow555r]

Mondo47 wrote...

Ah, the ol' "Psychopath" label again, eh?

The more people like to regurgitate that from the advertising, the more I think it was a very deliberate and actually quite clever move on the part of BioWare. Think about the FFTL trail for a minute; we get to sit and talk to Jack for a minute and she tells us why she's tagging along with ol' Shep on his doomed quest. She tells us in no uncertain terms that she's got no interest in causes and reasons, she just wants to kill things because she's sooooo f*cking good at it, rah rah rah. Now, consider this as Jack talking to us; she doesn't know us from Adam, she doesn't trust us, so she puts on her game face and tries to make us think she's the biggest, baddest animal in the cage -  I'm Jack, don't f*ck with me or you end up dead, you p*ssy. We get a conception of Jack that Jack wants us to have. We get the same Jack that wasn't about to be rescued by some guy in a Cerberus frigate.

Then in the other trailer, we get more of the same mixed with a spike of casual sex - so not only is this girl a violence-loving lunatic, she's hot to trot without you getting all hearts and flowers with her. Bonus! Ok, she's a lunatic, but she puts out! Since when has that put guys off? F*ck, you could sleep with a rusty chainsaw you call Babydoll and have filed all your teeth to points, and some guys wouldn't give a damn if they were getting some.

Add to this a constant undertow of how "hardcore" Jack is, and we end up with a preconception that this woman is an unbalanced recidivist with a taste for killing anyone, anytime, anyplace. You might even get a wildcat sport-f*ck out of her too. She's good at killing, that's why she's there. She could be some convict soldier, some penal-corps trooper in any one of a thousand brain-dead, now-with-no-added-story, flailing in a sea of retarded juvenile masculine imagery FPS games oh-so-loved by, well, let's be honest for a minute here, juvenile males still harking back to their days playing soldier in the backyard... *cough* GearsOfWar *cough*

And then we play the game and get the truth... Jack is a wounded dove, forced to be an eagle because it's the only way she's survived so long, but secretly still wanting to be the dove she was born as all over again. You pick her up and care for her, and the facade melts to show us the truth. The Wizard was actually just a little man, and while Jack is certainly a force of destruction not to be trifled with, she has a heart, a soul, a conscience and feelings. You use her for sex, she knows exactly what kind of person you are - f*ck off. You toy with her feelings, f*ck off. You lie to her or abuse her trust, f*ck off. All you will see is the mask, not the woman behind it. Or you discover she has, like, feelings! Shock horror! I thought she was just gonna ride the Cole Train with me! What a p*ssy - she has a heart under it all!

Tuchanka might kill the weak, torment the slow and destroy the stupid, but so does Jack; BioWare build up one set of expectations, and then, if you're curious enough, you descover another underneath. You are made to think that all you're getting is a disposable, muderous madwoman with a penchant for strings free sex, and you discover by turns that all she does is give you abuse if you keep thinking that way. Or you are made to think that she is some impervious mountain of unfeeling iron-hard femininity, and you perhaps feel disappointed to discover that love makes her crumble (oh, the shame that heaps on those that think women can only be strong if they are always unmoved... tell that to any mother and prepare to be laughed to f*cking scorn). Either way, BioWare sets us up to be played with Jack, and the advertising really does help. We see it as kinda stupid because, well, we went on Jack's little journey and found out the truth - which is I think what BioWare wanted all along... fake us out, hook us into her. Does any other character have that kind of depth? Erm... no. The cheerleader stays the cheerleader, Tali is just Tali, Garrus has his problems, Thane is the standard spiritual murder-machine... with them, we get exactly what's on the tin, we have them pegged from moment one. Those with advertising have this theme bolstered; you watch Thane's FFTL trailer, and you already know he's not a regular assassin - he's thoughtful, articulate, spiritual, and has a touch of sadness. You get what you paid for. Not with Jack, and that has to be deliberate.

So, we can all pat ourselves on the back for being good little boys and girls and taking the path that BioWare wanted us to take. The dummies all drove straight around the bend because of that detour sign in the middle of the road, but we saw it for what it was (or just thought hey, why the f*ck not, and drove through it just like Jack would  ). I've said it before, I'll say it again; you must be this tall to ride Jack. If you still think she's a psychopath, or just a grade-a b*tch, well, come back in a few years kid... you might be tall enough then.

Mondo, after reading this all I have to say is I love you.

[Goat_Shepard]

yorkj86 wrote...

Wait, wait, wait.  People have trouble looking at Jack's eyes?

That ink....flowing around her skin like fire and smoke, begging the short-attentives to follow the patterns, wondering where and why each one was started, and what's at the end of them. Her meticulously shaved head, revealing her intricate head and neck tattoos. Golden translator earpiece glinting on one side but not the other. The way her lips move as she talks in that voice. Courtenay Taylor's voice making it difficult to do the simplest multitasking.

She's incredibly distracting, and thus a hazard. Especially in battle.

[Goat_Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
No.  Diverse gene pool.

Niiice. Well, that doesn't mean ya can't find Yvonne attractive. My point was that whatever she looked like, somewhere along the recipe someone used salt instead of sugar, then overcooked it and left it at room temperature for like a week.