20813 réponses à ce sujet

[gneissguy2003]

Astranagant wrote...

Jack had potential, but they railroaded her into the cliche "tough girl/damaged goods" role rather than bothering to give her any depth.

We've already been trolled about this, and we're still here. Next!

[Mondo47]

Astranagant wrote...

Jack had potential, but they railroaded her into the cliche "tough girl/damaged goods" role rather than bothering to give her any depth.

To be fair, every single character has their cliche-quotient in ME2. Guess it all depends on how much a cliche can communicate with you as a part of the audience. Most of space-opera's boards are very well trodden these days.

[Nastrod]

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys do you think that Jack will have long or short hair in ME3?

You know what would suck if the people that had a paragon romance with her saw a change since she feels a little better and she is in love with Shep. She has dropped some of her wall so she grows her hair out and stuff.

The renegade or people that did not have her as a LI  she stays the same because nothing changed for her.

[gneissguy2003]

Mondo47 wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

Jack had potential, but they railroaded her into the cliche "tough girl/damaged goods" role rather than bothering to give her any depth.

To be fair, every single character has their cliche-quotient in ME2. Guess it all depends on how much a cliche can communicate with you as a part of the audience. Most of space-opera's boards are very well trodden these days.

Agreed. Miranda is the cliche super-human with an identity crisis; Thane is the cliche assassin/badboy with a moral conflict; Tali is the cliche young woman with the hots for her boss; Garrus is the cliche cop "gone bad" because he wants justice; etc., etc., etc.

If you want to perceive these characters as being shallow, then that's your own conscious choice which means you only have yourself to blame for not seeing any depth in them.

Edit:
Sorry... I'm coming off rather mean, I think. Just frustrated since we've been priding ourselves on making posts with actual content and not just one or two sentence long, baseless claims. My apologies.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 09 mars 2010 - 10:10 .

[Jackal904]

Astranagant wrote...

Jack had potential, but they railroaded her into the cliche "tough girl/damaged goods" role rather than bothering to give her any depth.

Is there anything in this world that someone won't label as cliche? You could label every character in any game as cliche without getting to know them. You look at the outside of a character and instantly try to label them as something you have seen before, which is stupid and displays how simple minded you really are. Just because there are some remote similarities in some other form, it does not mean something is cliche. It's like saying "Omg Commander Shepard is so cliche. Just another tough army guy trying to save a bunch of people." Well no **** but I could go on forever explaining how he is different from other tough army guys trying to save a bunch of people. What could they do to be 100% original? Make him some giant ugly squid who turns into a gerbil at night and shoots laser beams out of his nose? People need to quit throwing the word 'cliche' around because 99% of the time they are wrong and are making stupid generalizations without actually knowing anything about the character.

Jack has a ton of depth, and if you disagree with that then you are a troll.

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

Jack had potential, but they railroaded her into the cliche "tough girl/damaged goods" role rather than bothering to give her any depth.

To be fair, every single character has their cliche-quotient in ME2. Guess it all depends on how much a cliche can communicate with you as a part of the audience. Most of space-opera's boards are very well trodden these days.

Agreed. Miranda is the cliche super-human with an identity crisis; Thane is the cliche assassin/badboy with a moral conflict; Tali is the cliche young woman with the hots for her boss; Garrus is the cliche cop "gone bad" because he wants justice; etc., etc., etc.

If you want to perceive these characters as being shallow, then that's your own conscious choice which means you only have yourself to blame for not seeing any depth in them.

Edit:
Sorry... I'm coming off rather mean, I think. Just frustrated since we've been priding ourselves on making posts with actual content and not just one or two sentence long, baseless claims. My apologies.

Don't apologize. Because you are correct. If you want to stick every character in some kind of cliche role, then you are depriving yourself. But just because they may fit a similar role shown in some other video game or movie, it does not mean they are not unique. Sure Garrus plays the renegade cop role, but I think we can all agree he has a ton of unique qualities. And to lock him in this cliche role as a renegade cop, is stupid and simple minded, you are only hurting yourself.

Modifié par Jackal904, 09 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[revan11exile]

Hey i did not know that their was an renegade option for Jack is it good or bad for Shepard?

[Jackal904]

revan11exile wrote...

Hey i did not know that their was an renegade option for Jack is it good or bad for Shepard?

When she asks you if you're just talking to her for sex, you can say yes, and you'll have casual sex with her but then she won't talk to you anymore.

[revan11exile]

Thanks Jackal904 i will not be doing that option any time soon.

[Booglarize]

revan11exile wrote...

Thanks Jackal904 i will not be doing that option any time soon.

Kelly specifically advises you against it too, something about how Jack might make advances on you but that you should be wary of that if you want to earn her respect. 

[gneissguy2003]

The whole casual sex thing with Jack is actually a rather interesting choice for Bioware to have made. She's the only possible romance in the game, between both male and female LI's, that you can actually choose to do that with. I like to think that this particular option, in and of itself, is a testament to how different and unique they wanted Jack to be from the other characters you encounter.

[BobbyTheI]

I do like that BioWare is trending away from the tired, "Conversation, conversation, and then sex is the reward and the end of the romance." As much as I like the Jack romance, I almost wish it had taken more of an influence from the Dragon Age romances, where just because you knocked boots doesn't mean that there are no more conversations left (and I'm talking more about the Paragon romance; the Renegades getting the cold shoulder seems perfectly within Jack's character). But at the very least they tried something different, and I hope we see more of it in ME3 and other future BioWare games.

[gneissguy2003]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I do like that BioWare is trending away from the tired, "Conversation, conversation, and then sex is the reward and the end of the romance." As much as I like the Jack romance, I almost wish it had taken more of an influence from the Dragon Age romances, where just because you knocked boots doesn't mean that there are no more conversations left (and I'm talking more about the Paragon romance; the Renegades getting the cold shoulder seems perfectly within Jack's character). But at the very least they tried something different, and I hope we see more of it in ME3 and other future BioWare games.

While I haven't actually finished Dragon Age yet, I have heard a bit about the romances in that game. I think you're right that maybe Bioware should consider taking a similar route for Mass Effect. It would add an interesting level of depth to your relationship with a squad member knowing that you can either choose to romance them and stick together or, if you later find out you don't trust or like that person anymore, you can potentially persue something else that comes along... with different ramification depending on the squadmates involved. For instance, maybe you ****** them off enough that they say, "Screw you, jack***!" and then steal your shuttle and vacate the Normandy.

[Booglarize]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I do like that BioWare is trending away from the tired, "Conversation, conversation, and then sex is the reward and the end of the romance." As much as I like the Jack romance, I almost wish it had taken more of an influence from the Dragon Age romances, where just because you knocked boots doesn't mean that there are no more conversations left (and I'm talking more about the Paragon romance; the Renegades getting the cold shoulder seems perfectly within Jack's character). But at the very least they tried something different, and I hope we see more of it in ME3 and other future BioWare games.

I agree with you, but just wanted to point out that the Dragon Age approach isn't really new for BioWare. I'm thinking specifically of Baldur's Gate 2, where several of the romances really evolved over a long period of time and over a very large number of conversations. Viconia in particular comes to mind - not counting the expansion, the player character actually sleeps with her twice over the course of the romance, and she has plenty to say before and after that (and even between those two occasions, for that matter). 

Properly developed, I think Jack's romance has the potential to be somewhere in that league, more so than any of the other love interests. Also, I know that there are constraints what with having everything voice-acted and all, but I think BioWare really missed a trick by not having unique post-Omega 4 dialogue properly acknowledging the relationship and perhaps speculating on its future (this applies to them all, not just Jack). This little addition would have greatly enhanced my perception of this aspect of the game - as it stands, it just seems... incomplete. 

[Jackal904]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

The whole casual sex thing with Jack is actually a rather interesting choice for Bioware to have made. She's the only possible romance in the game, between both male and female LI's, that you can actually choose to do that with. I like to think that this particular option, in and of itself, is a testament to how different and unique they wanted Jack to be from the other characters you encounter.

I agree, I think it adds a lot of depth and uniqueness to her. I'm sure a lot of people were thrown offgaurd when she asks if you're just talking to her for sex. I know the first time she asked me that I wondered why she asked that. And I learned that she's only been exposed to people who want things. She's not used to people doing things out of compassion. Like if you do tell her it's just about sex, she says "Figures, everyone always wants something." And when you ask her to tell you something about her, she says, "You're only interested if it affects you, I've been through all this before." I was blown away by how deep her character is. Because I was one of those people who saw her reveal trailer and thought she was going to be some typical shallow badass chick. Man was I wrong.

And it really bugs me when people think she has no depth. If they think she has no depth then it's safe to say they haven't even give her a chance. Because you cannot go through the paragon romance with her and think she has no depth let alone think she's the deepest characters in the game.

Booglarize wrote...

I think BioWare really missed a trick by not having unique post-Omega 4 dialogue properly acknowledging the relationship and perhaps speculating on its future (this applies to them all, not just Jack). This little addition would have greatly enhanced my perception of this aspect of the game - as it stands, it just seems... incomplete.

I agree. I demand post-final mission LI dialogue DLC!

Modifié par Jackal904, 09 mars 2010 - 11:50 .

[Booglarize]

Jackal904 wrote...

I agree. I demand post-final mission LI dialogue DLC!

You know, I think BioWare may have stumbled upon a neat little business model here... make a game that's absolutely great, while ensuring that it has dozens of little pieces conspicuously missing - then sell them piece by piece as separate downloads.

Not sure if I'd necessarily approve of such a system, but I won't lie - I'd probably end up buying most of them. 

[Captain Chordata]

Booglarize wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I agree. I demand post-final mission LI dialogue DLC!

You know, I think BioWare may have stumbled upon a neat little business model here... make a game that's absolutely great, while ensuring that it has dozens of little pieces conspicuously missing - then sell them piece by piece as separate downloads.

Not sure if I'd necessarily approve of such a system, but I won't lie - I'd probably end up buying most of them. 

What, isn't that what MMO's called microtransactions?

[gneissguy2003]

Booglarize wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I agree. I demand post-final mission LI dialogue DLC!

You know, I think BioWare may have stumbled upon a neat little business model here... make a game that's absolutely great, while ensuring that it has dozens of little pieces conspicuously missing - then sell them piece by piece as separate downloads.

Not sure if I'd necessarily approve of such a system, but I won't lie - I'd probably end up buying most of them. 

Well, thankfully, the vast majority of it seems to be in the form of free DLC through the Cerberus Network. I have no hopes at all that it will all be that way, but quite a bit of it probably will.

[BobbyTheI]

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I agree. I demand post-final mission LI dialogue DLC!

You know, I think BioWare may have stumbled upon a neat little business model here... make a game that's absolutely great, while ensuring that it has dozens of little pieces conspicuously missing - then sell them piece by piece as separate downloads.

Not sure if I'd necessarily approve of such a system, but I won't lie - I'd probably end up buying most of them. 

Haha same here. I'd be screaming "Damn you BioWare!" as I buy a bunch of microsoft points.

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

Really? I didn't know they planned on doing that. That would be awesome. A bunch of episodic DLC leading up to ME3 would be pretty sweet. Of course they couldn't make it too vital to the story because not everyone who ends up getting ME3 will have access to or get ME2 DLC.

Modifié par Jackal904, 10 mars 2010 - 12:13 .

[Booglarize]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

Well, let's just hope that the writers for these expansions stay as far away from the Dragon Age people as possible - lest we end up with a game where your significant other and the rest of your friends have mysteriously disappeared, you can't start any new relationships and the only returning squad member is Jacob.

[Booglarize]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Well, thankfully, the vast majority of it seems to be in the form of free DLC through the Cerberus Network. I have no hopes at all that it will all be that way, but quite a bit of it probably will.

I imagine they'll go down the Dragon Age route - a few freebies and a new companion to whet the appetite, but content that really ties into the game's plot or history (like with Return to Ostagar or Warden's Keep) being paid for.

[Occams Razor 17]

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

Well, let's just hope that the writers for these expansions stay as far away from the Dragon Age people as possible - lest we end up with a game where your significant other and the rest of your friends have mysteriously disappeared, you can't start any new relationships and the only returning squad member is Jacob.

Heh, that's almost too true to be funny.

[Jackal904]

Occams Razor 17 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

Well, let's just hope that the writers for these expansions stay as far away from the Dragon Age people as possible - lest we end up with a game where your significant other and the rest of your friends have mysteriously disappeared, you can't start any new relationships and the only returning squad member is Jacob.

Heh, that's almost too true to be funny.

Jacob ain't all that bad. His heavy armour upgrade saves Jack. But that's the only good thing about him .

[hawat333]

Jackal904 wrote...

Jacob ain't all that bad. His heavy armour upgrade saves Jack. But that's the only good thing about him .

Hahah, true.
No, I like Jacob. He's a good guy. But well, not really interesting.
But indeed, his armor upgrade saves the day!

[gneissguy2003]

Jackal904 wrote...

Occams Razor 17 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well, from what I've heard, BioWare has said that they're going to keep the promise they... somewhat missed in ME1, and have expansions that bridge the gap between ME2 and ME3. Hopefully some expanded dialogue with the squad would come part and parcel with that.

Well, let's just hope that the writers for these expansions stay as far away from the Dragon Age people as possible - lest we end up with a game where your significant other and the rest of your friends have mysteriously disappeared, you can't start any new relationships and the only returning squad member is Jacob.

Heh, that's almost too true to be funny.

Jacob ain't all that bad. His heavy armour upgrade saves Jack. But that's the only good thing about him .

Oh fine! Since he made it possible for Jack to even have a chance of surviving the suicide mission, I guess we can let him come along for ME3. Yeesh!