20813 réponses à ce sujet

[MHRazer]

yorkj86 wrote...

There's always room for more Jackolytes.  I just wonder if the novelty of a year-old game being released on a new platform will be able to attract anyone.  How long was it after the X-Box release of ME1 that it was released on the PC?

Long enough that I didn't hear about the PC launch, and am only now about halfway through my first ME1 playthrough. I'm pretty much making all the opposite choices of the pre-made Shepard I've had to use every time in ME2. 

And yes to more Jackolytes, please. We seem to have hit a large wall.

(Looked it up, it was 6 months between releases)

[Dominus5412]

Creepy.

[Razorsedge820]

yorkj86 wrote...

We've had this discussion before, but for the sake of bumping the thread, I'll bring it up again.

Is Jack's romance arc misogynistic?  Is it saying that all a tough, independent girl really needs is a good guy, in order to soften her up, and see who she really is?

Does Shepard force Jack in to a relationship by continuing to pursue her, even though she tries repeatedly to keep him away?  There's a difference between being persistent, and being creepy.  Does Shepard come off as the former, or the latter?

I would not say Jack hates women or is afraid to get involved with one, she just prefers guys thats all. Of course at first glance one would would think Jack is bisexual or homosexual because of her appearance.

When you sum it all up I think Jacks romance is simply a women who has been exposed to the bad side of love ( sex, drugs, abuse, exploitation) and thinks thats all their is to it which suits her just fine.  But when she is exposed to the other side of love like constant genuine conversation she becomes confused and scared since it is all new to Jack. So I would not t say it would take a "good guy"  to save Jack, all Jack requires is someone who she can trust and lead her in  the right direction.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Is Jack's romance arc misogynistic?  Is it saying that all a tough, independent girl really needs is a good guy, in order to soften her up, and see who she really is?

Does Shepard force Jack in to a relationship by continuing to pursue her, even though she tries repeatedly to keep him away?  There's a difference between being persistent, and being creepy.  Does Shepard come off as the former, or the latter?

I really react to this kind of questioning badly, despite the fact I can see and understand the logic behind it. For a start, we're only presented with a hetero-romance arc for Jack, so pissing and moaning about her love interest being male is as pointless as installing a condom machine in the Vatican - it's what we got; using it as a chisel to dissect the character is facile. Also, if you're so militant that a woman expressing sensitivity to a man is seen as a display of gender-oppression, or worse, as a sign of weakness on the part of the character... f*ck, you're pathetic. It's a romance - one based on a couple of pretty old tropes if you want to see them; you want to change things that have roots in stories thousands of years old, all the best building that time machine. If you're there for some kind of agenda, you ain't gonna find one in a video game; a medium made to appeal across very broad spectrums of age, race, gender, etc. And secondly, to think opening one's feelings to another (leaving gender out of this for a second) is a sign of weakness? That's just screwed up. Oh noes! Love makes you weak! If that's the case, bring it on - I'm weak and I'm proud of it.

Basically, it's not that it takes a man and his magic penis to open up Jack - it's that it's Shepard that does it. He's a prototypical hero; he slays dragons, rescues princesses, unites kingdoms and if need be melts the hearts of warrior maidens. It's not because he has a c*ck, it's because he's the bloody hero! A penis is not required to be a hero - Shepard just has one by proxy in this case.

As for Shepard's pursuit of Jack, to be honest the guy has never come off as creepy to me. Shep ain't dumb. He looks at Jack, listens to her talk, and just grasps that while she's certainly tough, capable, independent and as lethal as all hell, the face she presents is just that; a mask to hide the Jack inside. He doesn't buy her spiny exterior; he looks past it and sees the woman inside it, someone forced by life to try to be as vicious as possible to beat nature at its own game, to hurt it before it hurts her. So knowing its artifice, he pokes at it until it cracks, until Jack falters and shows enough of herself for him to see who really is in there. And in coaxing her out of her shell, she sees he is a man that will not use her, will appreciate her for who she really is, and yes, will give her some comfort from the huge burden of hurt she carries around on her back. Also not being scared to stand up to her probably earns some brownie points too. It is a seduction of sorts, but at the same time it's something a lot deeper; he's showing Jack that he's willing to take a risk on her, and in turn she sees she doesn't need her mask around him. They're exploring one another's boundaries... I find it really sweet to be honest.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Mondo47 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Is Jack's romance arc misogynistic?  Is it saying that all a tough, independent girl really needs is a good guy, in order to soften her up, and see who she really is?

Does Shepard force Jack in to a relationship by continuing to pursue her, even though she tries repeatedly to keep him away?  There's a difference between being persistent, and being creepy.  Does Shepard come off as the former, or the latter?

I really react to this kind of questioning badly, despite the fact I can see and understand the logic behind it. For a start, we're only presented with a hetero-romance arc for Jack, so pissing and moaning about her love interest being male is as pointless as installing a condom machine in the Vatican - it's what we got; using it as a chisel to dissect the character is facile. Also, if you're so militant that a woman expressing sensitivity to a man is seen as a display of gender-oppression, or worse, as a sign of weakness on the part of the character... f*ck, you're pathetic. It's a romance - one based on a couple of pretty old tropes if you want to see them; you want to change things that have roots in stories thousands of years old, all the best building that time machine. If you're there for some kind of agenda, you ain't gonna find one in a video game; a medium made to appeal across very broad spectrums of age, race, gender, etc. And secondly, to think opening one's feelings to another (leaving gender out of this for a second) is a sign of weakness? That's just screwed up. Oh noes! Love makes you weak! If that's the case, bring it on - I'm weak and I'm proud of it.

Basically, it's not that it takes a man and his magic penis to open up Jack - it's that it's Shepard that does it. He's a prototypical hero; he slays dragons, rescues princesses, unites kingdoms and if need be melts the hearts of warrior maidens. It's not because he has a c*ck, it's because he's the bloody hero! A penis is not required to be a hero - Shepard just has one by proxy in this case.

As for Shepard's pursuit of Jack, to be honest the guy has never come off as creepy to me. Shep ain't dumb. He looks at Jack, listens to her talk, and just grasps that while she's certainly tough, capable, independent and as lethal as all hell, the face she presents is just that; a mask to hide the Jack inside. He doesn't buy her spiny exterior; he looks past it and sees the woman inside it, someone forced by life to try to be as vicious as possible to beat nature at its own game, to hurt it before it hurts her. So knowing its artifice, he pokes at it until it cracks, until Jack falters and shows enough of herself for him to see who really is in there. And in coaxing her out of her shell, she sees he is a man that will not use her, will appreciate her for who she really is, and yes, will give her some comfort from the huge burden of hurt she carries around on her back. Also not being scared to stand up to her probably earns some brownie points too. It is a seduction of sorts, but at the same time it's something a lot deeper; he's showing Jack that he's willing to take a risk on her, and in turn she sees she doesn't need her mask around him. They're exploring one another's boundaries... I find it really sweet to be honest.

You know, I've had this argument with people all over the place. Each time, I've employed similar arguments to this but never so eloquent and well-constructed. This is great!

[Mondo47]

Maybe he just thinks she's the most physically attractive woman on the ship, and that snares him first? No need for it to be complicated as to why he starts talking to her so much.

[Dominus5412]

It's not possible to be sexist against men! Hah.

[Andaius20]

[tommyt_1994]

Andaius20 wrote...

I believe that's the paragon choice to the "You eye'in me up?" question right? I kinda hate it, its pretty douche-baggy. He might as well be saying "Yes I want to sleep with you, just not now. I would like to keep stringing you along first. Then I'll sleep with you sure". It's been discussed in this thread before, it just doesn't sit right to me.

Oh and on a completely un-related note, I found the point where I stopped following this thread ages ago. I pulled up the page on my phone so now I have basically in-depth Jack discussion on the go. I stopped around page 190 by the way, so I have about 280 pages to explore  (I started back again around 470). Yes it may seem strange to some of you that I've been following this thread for 60 pages now, but I mainly just lurk . I may try and become more of a common poster here though, a new laptop can help out with that.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 19 août 2010 - 04:08 .

[axl99]

To be fair, even if it's just that one line Shep says, he still needs to know how Jack ticks anyway. And she sure doesn't make it easy on him.

[tommyt_1994]

axl99 wrote...

To be fair, even if it's just that one line Shep says, he still needs to know how Jack ticks anyway. And she sure doesn't make it easy on him.

I understand and agree with what Shepard is trying to get at, that he is interested in Jack and wants to get to know her better but he doesn't want to jump the gun, but the line itself just seems off.

[Errationatus]

You know what intrigued Shepard about Jack initially?



THAT SHE DESTROYED PURGATORY DAMN-NEAR BY HERSELF!

*Cough*

Okay, maybe it's just me that finds that hot.   

[tommyt_1994]

I created a new Jack sig, anyone like it? It's only the second sig I've ever created, but it's definetly better than the first one . I just took that one Jack sig that most people here have, but shook it up a bit. it's kinda weird, and the inserted screenie is kindarandom, but I think i like it.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 19 août 2010 - 06:40 .

[Epantiras]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

I created a new Jack sig, anyone like it? It's only the second sig I've ever created, but it's definetly better than the first one . I just took that one Jack sig that most people here have, but shook it up a bit. it's kinda weird, and the inserted screenie is kindarandom, but I think i like it.

I like it