20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

Pacifien wrote...
To those discussing the Geth: since there's a new Legion thread, I think I'll take some discussion there if I get around to it.

I got around to it. Work on rewrite/destruction argument later.

[adriano_c]

"...and give fans from Mass Effect 1 the chance to continue a relationship with Liara."



So, I wonder if this indicates there'll be a reaction if Shepard's now with Jack, or whatever other character.



Oh, and 10 USD? When the game can be picked up new for like 20? Bioware's funny.

[Pacifien]

Jack wonders why the hell they're going after the Shadow Broker when entire human colonies are being taken by the Collectors. Or why Shepard is exerting so much energy into taking this particular information broker down when the Illusive Man is a better target. Jack wonders if she can slap Liara down on her ass in a biotic showdown. Samara uses her own biotics to put Jack and a Liara in a bubble and telling them that they have to go sit in the corner until they learn to behave like adults.

Modifié par Pacifien, 23 août 2010 - 06:32 .

[Pacifien]

Hey, Jack thread. I have a poll up. Just curious to know what people think.

[The Uncanny]

Hi. I just thought you peeps might be interested in this. As cosplay goes, I think this looks pretty awesome:

[Pacifien]

The Uncanny wrote...

Hi. I just thought you peeps might be interested in this. As cosplay goes, I think this looks pretty awesome:

Whoa, that is cosplay? That is beyond awesome. Was wondering when someone would do it.

[Mondo47]

The Uncanny wrote...

Hi. I just thought you peeps might be interested in this. As cosplay goes, I think this looks pretty awesome:

Well wow! It's been a few years since I messed about with the theatrical stuff, but I think I could improve those scars a little still... I once extended my surgical scars up into my chest for a laugh with dilute collodian and sealant, so it looked like I'd been put back together by Frankenstein, and my friends still remember that stuff as being absolutely horrifying. The ink though is the absolutely awesome part - that must have taken hours of freehand work.

[The Uncanny]

Mondo47 wrote...

Well wow! It's been a few years since I messed about with the theatrical stuff, but I think I could improve those scars a little still... I once extended my surgical scars up into my chest for a laugh with dilute collodian and sealant, so it looked like I'd been put back together by Frankenstein, and my friends still remember that stuff as being absolutely horrifying. The ink though is the absolutely awesome part - that must have taken hours of freehand work.

I'm not certain... but isn't that a wrinkle at the shoulder? I figured the red lighting was masking the fact that the tats are achieved with a body suit?

[Mondo47]

Either way, it would have taken a lot of work to detail and shade. Doing it on the skin with some waterproof acrylic-base industry paint like PAX... that would be awesome. Painting it onto a suit would be a lot more user-friendly, but if your model didn't mind lying around for a day (or to speed it up you could bodycast her then make some vac-form stencils and airbrush all the lines in and leave the little bits to hand-detail) you could do it the hardcore way... you could even appliance up the scars like that.

Sorry, SFX-talk, I'll hush now!

[Epantiras]

Pacifien wrote...

Jack wonders why the hell they're going after the Shadow Broker when entire human colonies are being taken by the Collectors. Or why Shepard is exerting so much energy into taking this particular information broker down when the Illusive Man is a better target. Jack wonders if she can slap Liara down on her ass in a biotic showdown. Samara uses her own biotics to put Jack and a Liara in a bubble and telling them that they have to go sit in the corner until they learn to behave like adults.

Priceless


Oh, and that cosplay is cool: I actually had to read the description, otherwise I could have dismissed it as a render or a fan art - yeah, I didn't see that thing in "full view" but only in "thumbnail size".

[Errationatus]

Mondo47 wrote...

Just to briefly touch on the fuzzy-cuddly geth debate, *SNIP*. By our considered standard for judging artificial intelligence, the geth fall a little short of passing the Turing Test anytime soon due to a lack of humanlike flexibility of expression.

Tricky, this bit.  Legion would probably pass the Turing test, but is that because it's actually aware or because it understands the concept and provides the appropriate response for the situation?  Don't forget that Legion said itself that the geth monitor organic transmissions to better understand how "to model our behaviour" - to comprehend how we act and why we act that way the better to understand us.  The best way is to imitate us and then interact with us.  Legion's geth are not trying to be anyone's friends, nor are they trying to become 'alive', I don't think it's a goal.  They want information - data - like any sophisticated machine would.  Their ultimate goal is to be basically one big program in the galaxy's largest HD.  Even then, they are still only going to be trillions of individual programs working together to simulate something more complex.

But, and I say but, there's no reason why they shouldn't eventually. *SNIP* ...does it not at least simulate us?

Simulation is not being.  To imitate us is not being us.  To imitate life is not living.  This is like that stupid hologrammatic doctor in the abysmal Star Trek: Voyager.  They fight for his "rights" at one point, when they should have been fighting for the ship's computer's "rights", since the computer was simulating and projecting this copy of a living being.  All he was was a set of very good programs that did a helluva job in picking the right responses - like the conglomeration of geth called Legion.  If I write a program for 'randomness' - not impossible - and that gifts Legion with the ability to abstract, one fundamental flaw remains - It's still a program, and Legion still won't be live'n.

The geth have access to the extranet... they must have read Frankenstein by now. Now, when we read that story, do we judge the creature as alive?

Why wouldn't we?  The Monster is alive.  It was always composed of organic components, it had the potential for life because it was a conglomeration of living things to begin with, it was never a truly dead thing.  Unlike a machine.

*SNIP*. But, if we think about it... a good question to ask Legion would be why the geth maintain the quarian homeworld so diligently?

Simple:  they were programmed to clean up after themselves. They were designed to maintain Rannoch.  What else would they do after they drove the quarians off?  That was simply self-preservation.  There was no intent other than that.  Logically, to preserve themselves, the quarians had to go.  No malice.  Not hate.  Simple logic.  It is also simple logic to clean up after because that's what they're for - back to the basics.  Attack a geth, it reacts.  Leave it alone, it doesn't.  That's why for 300 years, no one saw them.,  They didn't care, because they had no need to care.  The "Heretics" were altered from this, by a software glitch.  They went from "Not being attacked, do not retaliate" to "Retaliate before being attacked."  Kinda like going from sense to the Bush Doctrine.

It's also pity the quarians were too stupid or shortsighted to hardwire something like the Three Laws of Robotics into the geth.  It would have saved them a lot of problems.

They don't require those things to be done to survive there - *SNIP* Could their actions be accepted as "guilt"? And can that not be accepted as being the feeling of a living being?

A software glitch is a software glitch is a software glitch.  Like I said, cleaning up is what they were originally designed to do.  So they did it.  Like Legion intimated:  they likely slaughtered the quarians because "4 is greater than 3", or something similar.  No guilt.  Guilt is an empathic reaction.  The geth do not regret what they did.  They were preserving their own existence.  If the quarians had simply talked to them instead of overreacting violently, they would still be on the homeworld and not the whiny gypsies they've become.

Humans are funny critters.  We have the ability to empathically project ourselves onto practically anything - on cold days we beg our cars to start and we apologize if we yell at them.  My wife refused to discuss buying a new car whilst sitting in the old one - malfunctions can happen if the car feels rejected, y'know.  (I'm not saying she actually believed this would happen, but it is a good example)  We like to think our pets think of us as mommy and daddy, and understand English with comprehension and precision, that they operate under the same emotional motivational complexities that we do - and for the same reasons, when it is factually ludicrous.  No matter how well you train the dog, it won't stop being a dog.

Taking Jack along with a Shep to the geth station doesn't really sway me in either direction;*SNIP* she certainly has no issues seeing them as "alive" - and I would have actually taken her as the person most likely to see them as little more than jumped-up pocket calculators.

Personally, I don't think Jack sees them as alive.  She's projecting the situation on herself, and talking about how she would react, which is understandable, given how self-centred she is - she will naturally judge everything by how it could potentially or theoretically affect her.  Nothing wrong with that - human nature.  On the derelict reaper, she displayed no such altruism toward Legion.

Obligatory Jack content!  We are still talking about Jack! 

I would, for now, feel no more guilt in rewriting the Heretics than I would performing surgery on a childhood toy; I'd not be taking anything from them other than a programming subroutine. *SNIP* And once that happens, who is able to judge which is more real - our feelings or theirs? The geth are not alive, no, but I think the statement should be the geth are not alive yet. And chances are, they will be sooner rather than later.

The geth, unless they undergo a very radical change, will never be alive.

My emotions are based on organic processes.  Indeed, they are outcomes of organic processes, almost a byproduct of our brain's evolution.  We have emotions because they have survival value to us as an organism.  The geth don't require emotions - emotions impair efficiency.  It's one thing to understand emotional responses, but I doubt geth will ever require them, so they won't be chosen for, evolutionarily-speaking.  Even then, all they would be doing is simulating them, regardless of how well they understand the concept - it will never be anything more than a concept for the geth.

You make a good case, Mondo, but your argument seems to hinge on the geth wanting that outcome.  That they are actively seeking true sentience beyond what they have, to attempt to achieve via software what organics do neurologically.  They don't need to, so they won't want to, so they won't.  Being alive is not something they require to function. 
It's our projection that thinks we've achieved something by being "alive". 

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 23 août 2010 - 07:35 .

[Errationatus]

That cosplay?  Now that's love of a character. 

Wow.  Just wow.

Who knows?  Maybe Jacks will eventually outnumber those sad Klingon wannabes at conventions. 

[Mondo47]

Sorry, I'd have to dress up as Wrex - excuse to headbutt people, right there!

[Jackal904]

I started classes back up recently so I haven't the time anymore to keep up with the thread, but I can still check it out once in a while.

adriano_c wrote...

"...and give fans from Mass Effect 1 the chance to continue a relationship with Liara."

So, I wonder if this indicates there'll be a reaction if Shepard's now with Jack, or whatever other character.

This is the first thing I wondered when I found out about being able to continue your relationship with Liara in the DLC. It will probably be something lame like, "I see you moved on Shepard, oh well, no hard feelings." But what I would prefer is an all out cat fight . Jack vs. Liara, that would be pretty awesome. And if there isn't an actual fight, at least some smack talking would be entertaining .

[Pacifien]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
So, do we have any cosplayers in the Jack thread?  Come on...admit it, tell us who you dress up as.

Let me guess:

Mondo - Miranda
Pacifien - Jack
Epantiras - Tali

That's cool. I can make out with Mondo.

[Mondo47]

Sensational. We end up with a huge crowd of nerds taking our picture for "private use" late... ugh. I think I need a shower now...

[Goat_Shepard]

Rogue Unit wrote...
Wait, so in your opinion, Tali's romance was less shallow than Miranda's? Lmao.

We're all entitled to our opinion. Tali only went on and on about ways to have sex with Shepard. When talking with Miranda she never once mentions anything about sex except the "admire my body part" if you can count that.

All the romances were shallow, really, because they all came to Shepard with nothing but sex on their mind, save Thane and Jack.

I get it though. Live today for tommorrow we die.

You're confusing this whole sex thing. You make it sound like Tali wants to tie Shepard up and screw him 12 ways for all the time they lost. Sex with a quarian is sort of a big deal, she could die, which shows how much she cares for Shepard. Nobody risks killing themselves and failing a mission just to lose their virginity. So yeah, it's gunna be talked about in the romance. And Tali held out a hell of a lot longer than Miranda.

I like Thane and Jack all the same, but that's a pretty shallow observation there as well. All the romances are deeper than they appear, they have to, because we only get a handful of conversations with these people. None of them are perfect, but neither are they as simple as you're making them out to be.

[Shadow555r]

I can't wait to see a cat fight between Liara and Jack. I'm sticking with Jack:D