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[Booglarize]

Well, damn.



Reading that just felt so wrong, I actually went and loaded my "right-before-Omega-4" save just so I could go and do that scene over one more time with the non-douchebag option, which made me feel somewhat cleansed.

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

Well, damn.

Reading that just felt so wrong, I actually went and loaded my "right-before-Omega-4" save just so I could go and do that scene over one more time with the non-douchebag option, which made me feel somewhat cleansed.

Lol that's exactly what I did.

Edit: I'm currently trying to do the rejection thing again because I want to see if she remains loyal to you, and I'm having an extremely difficult time trying to get myself to do it again haha.

Edit2: Yep she's still loyal. Man I'm never doin that again. When she says "Maybe I'm just too much for you to handle", you can tell she is about to fall apart. It sounds like she's guna ball her eyes out and soon as she exits your cabin.

Modifié par Jackal904, 11 mars 2010 - 07:07 .

[procki]

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I see what you're saying, Procki... that for all Shep's great sucesses, handling a relationship well need not be one of them. Fighting AI dreadnauts, no biggie. Letting a girl down easy, impossible. It doesn't involve shooting things for starters...

I wasn't really trying to defend Shepards actions during the rejection scene (in the Tali rejection he at least show concerns over her health, which paints a much softer picture). I would never make my Shepard reject her.

In my  original post I just wanted to say that even though the scene is very heartbreaking I am at least somewhat happy that I have taken a look at it. This is because...

Many people have expressed the opinion that the Jack romance is special because she doesn't immediately fawn over Shepard and can be downright hostile to him. This leads to the Jack Romance being more meaningful because it feels like you have to put much work into it.

I just think this ties in nicely with the fact that after that little breakdown she allows herself to have ("How could you do this to me?", the tears) she immediately throws up her front again. She deals with this rejection in the same way she has dealt with other instances of betrayal. Showing a Shepard that rejected her that even though he has hurt her, he has not broken her because this is just another betrayal. To me her demeanor in that scene says:

"Hey Shepard, i thought you might be someone I could trust. Now you have shown me thats wrong. The cheerleaders might still obsess over you if you tried this with them, because you're some stupid hero who saved the galaxy. Well I never really cared about the galaxy and you should better start sleeping with your eyes open."

Of course I understand that this is not really a good state of mind for her to be in. And that all the betrayals may leave far deeper scars inside her than someone could ever imagine. The story about her partner who sacrificed himself is propably just scraping the surface of the inner turmoil she is going through for her whole life.

This is why I am so happy to see her pull up her front, her armor all around her in that scene because it gives me hope. This front has helped her cope with far greater tragedy. He may made her open herself up, maybe even made her phantasize about a little stability, but she has had that before: In the cult, where they just wanted to use her or in the outlaw colony, which was also taken away from her.

I just like the idea that Shepard is just another guy, he will not be her end. And even though the whole ordeal might leave yet another scar on her mind (a scar that if it were on her body Jack would just tattoo over with one giant **** YOU), the scar that Shepard leaves on her will not be the one that finally causes her fragile mind to collapse or make her give up. He is just another guy.

She will move on, hiding or armoring herself in that front she has put up her whole life. She is damnn good at this. And because I'm an optimist I think she may trust again. What is that little betrayal from Shepard compared to everything else people have done to her. She is a survivor.

One day she might find that person, that group of people or that place where she can at least try to trust once again.

I know this involves a lot of speculation about Jack and what makes her tick. I have always seen Jack als extremely strong. Even though she can break down during the romance I see her as totally in control of herself if the situation demands it.

I'm only trying to explain why I am at least somewhat happy about taking a look at the scene of Shepard rejecting Jack. It made me think about her character in a lot of ways I hand't explored before and at the very least it got my mind to work.

[Lord_Moose]

Firmijn wrote...

I wont.
I made the mistake of seeing the paper mache tali after being warned. Killed my lunch. It is not going to happen to me now. From now on, I will listen:innocent:

Damn it Firmijn it isnt a 'Tali' doll. The blog that was the source of the 'toy' was just a woman. the towel was hair and the guy that made 'her' puts a picture onto the face. It's even more disturbing then you think.

[Anoleis]

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Well, damn.

Reading that just felt so wrong, I actually went and loaded my "right-before-Omega-4" save just so I could go and do that scene over one more time with the non-douchebag option, which made me feel somewhat cleansed.

Lol that's exactly what I did.

Edit: I'm currently trying to do the rejection thing again because I want to see if she remains loyal to you, and I'm having an extremely difficult time trying to get myself to do it again haha.

Edit2: Yep she's still loyal. Man I'm never doin that again. When she says "Maybe I'm just too much for you to handle", you can tell she is about to fall apart. It sounds like she's guna ball her eyes out and soon as she exits your cabin.

Ok, I have not seen that yet, as I don't have the heart to reject her. I don't think I ever will, do you know if there is a youtube clip of this?

I need to see what happens when that heartless bastard Shep rejects her.

Modifié par Anoleis, 11 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[Jackal904]

procki wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I see what you're saying, Procki... that for all Shep's great sucesses, handling a relationship well need not be one of them. Fighting AI dreadnauts, no biggie. Letting a girl down easy, impossible. It doesn't involve shooting things for starters...

I wasn't really trying to defend Shepards actions during the rejection scene (in the Tali rejection he at least show concerns over her health, which paints a much softer picture). I would never make my Shepard reject her.

In my  original post I just wanted to say that even though the scene is very heartbreaking I am at least somewhat happy that I have taken a look at it. This is because...

Many people have expressed the opinion that the Jack romance is special because she doesn't immediately fawn over Shepard and can be downright hostile to him. This leads to the Jack Romance being more meaningful because it feels like you have to put much work into it.

I just think this ties in nicely with the fact that after that little breakdown she allows herself to have ("How could you do this to me?", the tears) she immediately throws up her front again. She deals with this rejection in the same way she has dealt with other instances of betrayal. Showing a Shepard that rejected her that even though he has hurt her, he has not broken her because this is just another betrayal. To me her demeanor in that scene says:

"Hey Shepard, i thought you might be someone I could trust. Now you have shown me thats wrong. The cheerleaders might still obsess over you if you tried this with them, because you're some stupid hero who saved the galaxy. Well I never really cared about the galaxy and you should better start sleeping with your eyes open."

I didn't feel that way from her reaction at all. I think her relationship with Shepard got far more deep than anything she has experienced, and that his "betrayal" was significantly more crushing than any other. The way she says "Maybe I'm just too much for you to handle," makes it clear that she wasn't able to just shrug it off. She sounds far more crushed than with the whole Murtock thing. I'd think it would be worse to get completely shot down by the person you thought cared about you, than for them to actually care about you and die trying to save you. I didn't feel like she felt "Oh here we go again, nothing new." It was indeed new to her because she never had such a deep and meaningful relationship before. It's like you lift her up so high and then just drop her.

Anoleis wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Well, damn.

Reading that just felt so wrong, I actually went and loaded my "right-before-Omega-4" save just so I could go and do that scene over one more time with the non-douchebag option, which made me feel somewhat cleansed.

Lol that's exactly what I did.

Edit: I'm currently trying to do the rejection thing again because I want to see if she remains loyal to you, and I'm having an extremely difficult time trying to get myself to do it again haha.

Edit2: Yep she's still loyal. Man I'm never doin that again. When she says "Maybe I'm just too much for you to handle", you can tell she is about to fall apart. It sounds like she's guna ball her eyes out and soon as she exits your cabin.

Ok, I have not seen that yet, as I don't have the heart to reject her. I don't think I ever will, do you know if there is a youtube clip of this?

I need to see what happens when that heartless bastard Shep rejects her.

I searched on youtube and google and I couldn't find anything. If you want to see it you have to do it yourself unfortunately. Yes the scene is very heart crushing, but it makes you appreciate her depth that much more. So in a way it's kind of a good thing to at least see it once. At least that's what I'm telling myself so that I feel like less of an **** .

Modifié par Jackal904, 11 mars 2010 - 07:29 .

[BobbyTheI]

I don't want to post it, but if you guys could hear the tone in that last line... you'd know that this isn't something she's just going to bounce back from.  It's very much like the guy who gets cruelly rejected by the girl he's crushed on for ages and says, "Yeah, well... I didn't think you were that hot anyway."  She's trying to sound like this hasn't affected her, but she's just had her heart stomped on.

God, I feel like I need to play through again and romance Jack one more time, just as penance for this.  

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I don't want to post it, but if you guys could hear the tone in that last line... you'd know that this isn't something she's just going to bounce back from.  It's very much like the guy who gets cruelly rejected by the girl he's crushed on for ages and says, "Yeah, well... I didn't think you were that hot anyway."  She's trying to sound like this hasn't affected her, but she's just had her heart stomped on.

Oh ya definitely. I'm very surprised she doesn't just quit the team right then and there let alone remain loyal. I understand why she stays with you and even remains loyal to you because of gameplay reasons. If you have the minimum number of squadmates required for the final mission, you can't just get rid of one right before it because that would just fundamentally screw up the final mission. You could end up not having someone left to "hold the line" at the end. And if Jack lost her loyalty then she might die and then no one would reject her if she would always end up dieing because of it (unless they want her to die). And just because they reject her doesn't mean they want her to die. But there is no way you can try to make sense of her remaining loyal plot wise. It's not like some plot hole that you can just make up your own story to try and explain it. There is no reason she should remain on your ship after the final mission if you reject her, let alone staying with you in ME3. You hurt her that much.

Modifié par Jackal904, 11 mars 2010 - 07:46 .

[Mondo47]

Should she survive the suicide mission, the rejected Jack should silently slip away next time the Normandy docks, never to be seen again...

And the next time Douchebag Shepard needs a huge biotic field or a space station ripping apart, he should think back, wonder what could have been, and promptly get his nuts shot off.

Karma. it's a ****

[royceclemens]

It is a moment that's just absolutely crushing. But the funny thing about it is that the moment is Courtenay Taylor's best acting in the whole game. So yeah, I'm glad I saw it, it just cost a whole lot for me morally.



Thank God I had a save of that moment after the suicide mission after I dumped Miranda, so I didn't have to wade through a disc change and an hour of gameplay to IMMEDIATELY reset my karma. Not that it wouldn't have been worth it.

[gneissguy2003]

Wow. Just... wow. What an absolutely atrocious thing to say. I think I'll just leave it at that. 

[BobbyTheI]

To lighten things up a bit, I had to snicker at some lines in the romance conversations when there's a conflict (I usually only pursue one LI and ignore every other eligible character to avoid that, so I've never heard these before).  Jack's line of "So don't pretend you coming down here is special.  You make a lot of stops" gave me a chuckle, and all the lines are good at portraying Jack trying to say, "I want you to be only focused on me" while still trying to convince Shepard that she doesn't care what he does.

Another classic "Shepard is a douche" line from that one:  "I make choices on the battlefield.  Not in the bedroom." 

[Booglarize]

Alright, I couldn't help myself - I went back to my save game, picked the douchebag line, and saw the scene for myself.



I think I'll just lie down for a while.

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

Alright, I couldn't help myself - I went back to my save game, picked the douchebag line, and saw the scene for myself.

I think I'll just lie down for a while.

Actually, this is all making me wonder, does Femme-Shep have any total douchebag lines if she plays the field a bit?

[The Governator]

Mondo47 wrote...

Should she survive the suicide mission, the rejected Jack should silently slip away next time the Normandy docks, never to be seen again...

And the next time Douchebag Shepard needs a huge biotic field or a space station ripping apart, he should think back, wonder what could have been, and promptly get his nuts shot off.

Karma. it's a ****

For a rejection?  You are evil.

[Raphael diSanto]

My current RenShep is romancing Jack. I may have to see this scene for myself, as heartbreaking as it is.. The 'canon' story for him is the 'good' ending with Jack, of course.... but that's what save games are for, right?

[Mondo47]

The Governator wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Should she survive the suicide mission, the rejected Jack should silently slip away next time the Normandy docks, never to be seen again...

And the next time Douchebag Shepard needs a huge biotic field or a space station ripping apart, he should think back, wonder what could have been, and promptly get his nuts shot off.

Karma. it's a ****

For a rejection?  You are evil.

PMS FTW

[gneissguy2003]

Mondo47 wrote...

The Governator wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Should she survive the suicide mission, the rejected Jack should silently slip away next time the Normandy docks, never to be seen again...

And the next time Douchebag Shepard needs a huge biotic field or a space station ripping apart, he should think back, wonder what could have been, and promptly get his nuts shot off.

Karma. it's a ****

For a rejection?  You are evil.

PMS FTW

If this scene is as bad as it's being said to be, then I wouldn't blame Jack at all for jumping ship at the next opportunity. Actually, as far as I'm concerned, knowing what we do about Jack... Shepard is lucky that his ship is still in one piece after saying that to her. I can imagine her promptly going down to the engine core and shredding it to all hell.

[Zhijn]

To all who saw the scene and are about to have a breakdown! A Jack quick fix.


Still havnt seen it myself. But will go have a look at it within the next hour.

[Mkrgross]

I was playing a Ren-Shep and was doing all Ren options, had no idea what I would get when I picked that line. I felt sooo bad, I went back to a previous save and picked a different line. That was harsh, I still feel bad about it.

[Firmijn]

Lord_Moose wrote...

Firmijn wrote...

I wont.
I made the mistake of seeing the paper mache tali after being warned. Killed my lunch. It is not going to happen to me now. From now on, I will listen:innocent:

Damn it Firmijn it isnt a 'Tali' doll. The blog that was the source of the 'toy' was just a woman. the towel was hair and the guy that made 'her' puts a picture onto the face. It's even more disturbing then you think.

Great, now not only lunch was wasted, but dinner as wel:(


But, thanks..sort of.. for the explanation:blush:

[Mondo47]

Bless him... even Grunt knows his battlemaster can be a ****** sometimes

[Geth Knight]

Jack is my second favorite character. Right after Tali. I am sorry to everyone who disagrees with me......please dont kill me.

[royceclemens]

Geth Knight wrote...

Jack is my second favorite character. Right after Tali. I am sorry to everyone who disagrees with me......please dont kill me.

Feeling's mutual, only reverse.  We're nice folks around here.

[Firmijn]

Geth Knight wrote...

Jack is my second favorite character. Right after Tali. I am sorry to everyone who disagrees with me......please dont kill me.

Dont worry. You wont find a crazy horde here, massive in its numbers, hellbend on preaching the character that pleases them the most.

No we are not like...... the example above:?