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[Errationatus]

While we're on the subject of Sheps and pictures thereof:

Do y'all have specific "looks" for your Shepards intended to woo our lovely Ms. Nought?

I gave her my favorite canon renegade:  Victor.




Although I've wooed the girl six times with six different Sheps - but Victor there is my favourite.  He just looks so badass to me.

Jack deserves badass.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 18 septembre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Mr Plow]

Blimey...  I wouldn't want to meet Victor in a dark alley

[GodWood]

Mondo47 wrote...

Aside from the terrible hair-cut thats a pretty good looking Shepard.
Face code plzles?

[Mondo47]

GodWood wrote...
Aside from the terrible hair-cut thats a pretty good looking Shepard.
Face code plzles?

I have many, many fine Shepards - most with Face-Codes in the comments below them - in my Shepard Gallery. That was the first and last time I'll be using that haircut on a Shep

As for who I paired up with Jack... erm... it's a lot in my case. I have an in-progress gallery of my ME2 romance choices (I wasn't intending to collect lots of mooshy screengrabs)... and Jack seems to turn up there way too often

[Mondo47]

JakeMacDon wrote...

While we're on the subject of Sheps and pictures thereof:

Do y'all have specific "looks" for your Shepards intended to woo our lovely Ms. Nought?

I gave her my favorite canon renegade:  Victor.




Although I've wooed the girl six times with six different Sheps - but Victor there is my favourite.  He just looks so badass to me.

Jack deserves badass.

Badass, yeah, but damn, the boy looks like he just staggered out of Night of the Living Dead. She deserves a guy who isn't hot on Tuchanka

[GodWood]

Mondo47 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Aside from the terrible hair-cut thats a pretty good looking Shepard.
Face code plzles?

I have many, many fine Shepards - most with Face-Codes in the comments below them - in my Shepard Gallery. That was the first and last time I'll be using that haircut on a Shep

As for who I paired up with Jack... erm... it's a lot in my case. I have an in-progress gallery of my ME2 romance choices (I wasn't intending to collect lots of mooshy screengrabs)... and Jack seems to turn up there way too often

Ahh thankyou (snagged up the code to Anastacia Shepard's face too)

Regarding the topic of what type of Shep we ship with Jack, I dunno why but I can never romance her with either an older looking or manly looking Shepard.
Instead I tend to pair her up with a more young clean cut Shep. 

[Xilizhra]

I really, really wish Jack was a romance option for both genders. Not only would it seem to fit more, it'd make her romance be less creepily Nice Guy Syndrome-y.

[GodWood]

Here we go...

[Mondo47]

Xilizhra wrote...

I really, really wish Jack was a romance option for both genders. Not only would it seem to fit more, it'd make her romance be less creepily Nice Guy Syndrome-y.

I wouldn't say that Nice Guy Syndrome was endemic to men... you could have a Good Girl trying to do the same thing with Jack; trying to lift her up to a "better place" out of some sense of helping her get on the right track. I've walked this before, but I still think (even though I know a lot of people that want a Femme-Shep/Jack romance, and I do think it would be nice) that not taking that route with Jack was a breath of fresh air... it would have been way too easy to make her the badass bi-gal or toss out the butch/femme dynamic and play right into a stereotype. So as short-changed as some people feel, I think BioWare took the high road here and in many respects I'm glad they did.

[Xilizhra]

But she's no less a stereotype here, just a more annoying one; a woman who's badass on the outside but is only so because she's broken, and requires healing via the hero's magic ****. Also, when the only homosexual relationships in Mass Effect involve a race that doesn't really have "sexes" at all (not that I can complain about them) and one very abridged fling with a secretary, I question the notion that leaving more of them out is the "high" road.



To clarify, I'm not condemning Jack. I just think her romance could have been handled better.

[NICKjnp]

Xilizhra wrote...

I really, really wish Jack was a romance option for both genders. Not only would it seem to fit more, it'd make her romance be less creepily Nice Guy Syndrome-y.

I think it would be nice if they actually had gay romances for gay players... tailored to gay players rather than to straight mens fantasies.

I think in ME3 there should be both a M/M and F/F option.  To ignore that and just leave in the F/F option just makes it seem like the option availabe to have a little fantasy for teenage boys who have dreams about lesbians.

As for Jack... no.  The romances are now set.  We don't need another Tali situation where Bioware changes the character in order to appease certain fans.  If there are going to be M/M and F/F romances then have those romances be with new characters and have those characters only be for M/M and F/F romances.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 18 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Xilizhra]

I think in ME3 there should be both a M/M and F/F option. To ignore that and just leave in the F/F option just makes it seem like the option availabe to have a little fantasy for teenage boys who have dreams about lesbians.

I agree completely. I think Garrus should have been bi, as should either Thane for actual romantic content, or Jacob if men also want to laugh about being priiiizes.

[GodWood]

I'm all for gay romance.

But god I hate it when people want to turn every character gay/bi.

[Mondo47]

Xilizhra wrote...

But she's no less a stereotype here, just a more annoying one; a woman who's badass on the outside but is only so because she's broken, and requires healing via the hero's magic ****. Also, when the only homosexual relationships in Mass Effect involve a race that doesn't really have "sexes" at all (not that I can complain about them) and one very abridged fling with a secretary, I question the notion that leaving more of them out is the "high" road.

I think you're reading too much broadfaced sexual politics into this. Ok, she has a male preference, so it's very easy to take the route that it's a penis that's doing the healing when it's actually the relationship itself. So if it was a woman, there'd be no room to level the same argument at a magic vagina? There's nothing to stop this kind of reading being levelled at the relationship for either gender, so making Jack bi/lesbian solves nothing. The accusations just come from another quarter, and are no less facile.

Just because Jack displays moments of insecurity and tenderness as the relationship develops does not make her only tough on the outside; Jack must be tough on the inside to survive the horrors she has been through. She's not so much broken as stuck back together after being smashed so many times, but she has put herself back together every time... there are cracks, but she's still whole. It's finding someone that cares about her that starts to make the cracks less obvious. It's love that does it (as hippy-dippy as that sounds), and it doesn't matter whether it comes from someone who has a penis or someone that doesn't - it's not an organ doing the magic here, but something much more intangible... and if showing vulnerability to someone that cares about you is a sign of percieved weakness... yeesh. I've always called that trust. So I just can't agree with this particular point of view.

I do agree with you though on the point of homosexual relationships in the game. Yes, it could be represented much better in the game... I think Tali would make a really sweet f/f relationship, personally. But, it's just not to be. The game wasn't written that way. I think homosexuality really has a long way to go before it gets the representation it deserves in videogames as an emerging and important artistic medium, but in general I think BioWare is going in the right direction; much moreso than many other development houses.

[Xilizhra]

I think you're reading too much broadfaced sexual politics into this. Ok, she has a male preference, so it's very easy to take the route that it's a penis that's doing the healing when it's actually the relationship itself. So if it was a woman, there'd be no room to level the same argument at a magic vagina? There's nothing to stop this kind of reading being levelled at the relationship for either gender, so making Jack bi/lesbian solves nothing. The accusations just come from another quarter, and are no less facile.

If gender roles were more equalized in society, I'd agree with you and probably wouldn't be talking about this at all, but the romance does seem to play directly into a particularly irritating and primarily male fantasy (common fantasies are segregated somewhat by sex, probably for biological reasons). Not that I think Bioware is deliberately sexist; one of the other two female romances is decent in a dull sort of way, and the last is really sweet.

It's love that does it (as hippy-dippy as that sounds), and it doesn't matter whether it comes from someone who has a penis or someone that doesn't - it's not an organ doing the magic here, but something much more intangible... and if showing vulnerability to someone that cares about you is a sign of percieved weakness... yeesh. I've always called that trust. So I just can't agree with this particular point of view.

I was exaggerating a bit with my "magic ****" line, and I apologize if I misrepresented myself. The problem isn't that she shows vulnerability; that's fine and inevitable. The actual reason is... come to think of it, saying it would go back on my earlier promise not to condemn Jack, so I'll just stop talking now and wish you luck in finding people with more positive things to say.

I do agree with you though on the point of homosexual relationships in the game. Yes, it could be represented much better in the game... I think Tali would make a really sweet f/f relationship, personally. But, it's just not to be. The game wasn't written that way. I think homosexuality really has a long way to go before it gets the representation it deserves in videogames as an emerging and important artistic medium, but in general I think BioWare is going in the right direction; much moreso than many other development houses.

It's not the world's most terrible direction by far, but everything can always be better, and we should be encouraging it to make itself better. Of course, if it's "not meant to be," we always have fanfiction.

[Pacifien]

I'm getting ready to head out, so I haven't read whatever it is that we're talking about in any detail. I just wanted to say as a semi-regular poster/supporter to the Jack thread, I totally wish Jack was a bisexual option in the game. Still do for ME3. Discuss it later after the discussion has probably moved on to an entirely different subject.

[Xilizhra]

Behold specificity much more articulate than I am:

http://ferretbrain.c...les/article-563

Also, read the comments. The author's a bit... passionate in the article itself, but comes off as more balanced there.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 septembre 2010 - 04:03 .