axl99 wrote...
Personally I chalk it up to denial. The more you say you really hate a fictional character, the more you show you really care.
Ha!
Now I have to blow the dust off this beauty...
Into the Bad Girl: Jack Fans
Débuté par
Average Gatsby
, févr. 05 2010 03:24
#14826
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 04:23
Mondo47
-
- Members
- 3 485 messages
Ha!
Now I have to blow the dust off this beauty...
Retour en haut
#14827
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 05:03
axl99
-
- Members
- 1 362 messages
And don't forget these too -
Spreadin the love.
Spreadin the love.
#14828
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 05:48
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
"Everyone's dead. Just how I like it." That's one of Jack's spoken lines when Shepard tells the squad to holster their weapons. Do any of the other characters have as many spoken, non-dialogue lines as Jack?
#14829
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 06:20
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
-
- Guests
Hello Jack lovers and devotees!
I've just created the following poll, which asks users to vote for the romance which is not necessarily their favourite, but the one that they believe to be the most well-written. Any contributions or votes would be very much appreciated:
http://social.biowar...08/polls/11209/
Thank you!
#14830
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 06:54
Epantiras
-
- Members
- 1 389 messages
GodWood wrote...
Saw this quote in the Miranda thread...Made me laugh.Honestly
I think if push came to shove Miranda would beat Jack in a fight. I
don't think I'm necessarily biased in thinking this but simply because
Miranda would be able to out think her.
Jack is predictable, she goes
for maximum force all the time. Jack is like a claymore to Miranda's
rapier.
Honestly I think the turian
councilor would beat Miranda and Jack in a fight. I don't think I'm
necessarily biased in thinking this but simply because the turian
coucilor can dismiss them out of existance.
End of discussion. ;-)
Speaking seriously, I'm glad that Jacklytes don't engage other fans in wai-fu battles! The last thing we need here is a forum civil war.
yorkj86 wrote...
"Everyone's dead. Just how I like it." That's one of Jack's spoken lines when Shepard tells the squad to holster their weapons. Do any of the other characters have as many spoken, non-dialogue lines as Jack?
Oh noes! I've never heard that in-game - probably because my Shepards always run around waving guns under people's noses.
#14831
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 08:42
Mondo47
-
- Members
- 3 485 messages
Now sorry if I'm rehashing things we've gone over before, but I just went and tossed my ten cents in on that poll that was mentioned earlier, and reading the comments this nugget comes up; Jack's romance feels like Shep is coercing her into it.
Now sorry, but this baffles me. What? He's coercing her because he's just being nice in order to get laid? Or he's coercing her by actually chasing while she runs away? He's coercing her because she's "vulnerable?" Is anyone else getting this?
I cannot get this. At all. Shep can only be coercing Jack into a relationship if you think of it as coercion... and you could apply that logic to all the other romances (Shep coerces Liara because she's naive, Shep coerces Tali because he knows she has a crush on him and she'll happily gamble her health on him batting his eyelids for some p*ussy, Shep coerces Miranda because she's obviously gasping for a male figure in her life, Shep coerces Jacob because he's obviously still got a little bit of rebound torch for Miranda - easy lay there, Shep coerces Thane because he's just as "vulnerable" and so on, and yeah, I'm being deliberatly objectionable because it seems that romancing Jack is more morally murky than we though before). Am I wrong in thinking you need that baggage to see it? Plus if Shep is the sort of person that says one thing to get another, surely he'd just jump at Jack's Renegade f*ck and use someone a little less volatile... plus, you think someone with Jack's past can't spot a user a mile off? Jack might not need, or really be emotionally ready for a relationship by our estimation, but you cann only make Shep's attemt to romance her creepy if you actually have those creepy thoughts beforehand.
Am I just short-sighted here, or is this what it seems like to me - people trying to score moral points on the internet... which could be read equally as "I'll say this to appear all sensitive to women's needs on the internet... chicks dig that stuff heh heh heh."
Actually, it seems an even creepier statement now
Now sorry, but this baffles me. What? He's coercing her because he's just being nice in order to get laid? Or he's coercing her by actually chasing while she runs away? He's coercing her because she's "vulnerable?" Is anyone else getting this?
I cannot get this. At all. Shep can only be coercing Jack into a relationship if you think of it as coercion... and you could apply that logic to all the other romances (Shep coerces Liara because she's naive, Shep coerces Tali because he knows she has a crush on him and she'll happily gamble her health on him batting his eyelids for some p*ussy, Shep coerces Miranda because she's obviously gasping for a male figure in her life, Shep coerces Jacob because he's obviously still got a little bit of rebound torch for Miranda - easy lay there, Shep coerces Thane because he's just as "vulnerable" and so on, and yeah, I'm being deliberatly objectionable because it seems that romancing Jack is more morally murky than we though before). Am I wrong in thinking you need that baggage to see it? Plus if Shep is the sort of person that says one thing to get another, surely he'd just jump at Jack's Renegade f*ck and use someone a little less volatile... plus, you think someone with Jack's past can't spot a user a mile off? Jack might not need, or really be emotionally ready for a relationship by our estimation, but you cann only make Shep's attemt to romance her creepy if you actually have those creepy thoughts beforehand.
Am I just short-sighted here, or is this what it seems like to me - people trying to score moral points on the internet... which could be read equally as "I'll say this to appear all sensitive to women's needs on the internet... chicks dig that stuff heh heh heh."
Actually, it seems an even creepier statement now
Modifié par Mondo47, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:45 .
#14832
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 08:52
royceclemens
-
- Members
- 968 messages
Yes. Jack is doing things that she normally wouldn't do to identify with someone who may have designs on her. She consistantly breaks from her set behavior to get closer to a charismatic figure that holds sway over how she thinks. Thankfully, the best and brightest psychological and medical minds in the world have come up with a technical term for such a horrible, debilitating condition.
It's called "Falling in Love."
Seriously, Jack was in a cult. She'd know coercion if she saw it.
It's called "Falling in Love."
Seriously, Jack was in a cult. She'd know coercion if she saw it.
Modifié par royceclemens, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:53 .
#14833
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 08:53
Mondo47
-
- Members
- 3 485 messages
Thank Christ I'm not losing my marbles there, Uncle Royce!
Modifié par Mondo47, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:54 .
#14834
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:00
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
He's chasing her. I wouldn't call it coercing, though. The game doesn't really allow an LI to turn you down, unless you're just an ass with them. In that case, it's assumed that you don't want to romance them, so it stops. If you want them though, you've got them. Jack can't tell Shepard that she's not interested, or that she has a headache. She can't tell Shepard that she's not looking for a rebound, or whatever. So, reality doesn't apply here. It's role playing in a fictional universe, where you can't apply the same principles that we actually live by. Whoever made that comment, is trying to apply reality to a game. You can't have it both ways.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:13 .
#14835
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:03
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
Some of the lines are, admittedly, really poor. Meer does really make Shepard come off as a sleaze in some of them. At one "step" in the romance arc, there are a series of lines where Shepard sits down next to Jack on the cot. The upper-right option is repulsive. Shepard really does say that Jack doesn't know what she wants, and he's telling her what she wants. The middle option is a little more palatable, with Shepard asking Jack why she is making this difficult. That's the line to which she responds, "This is supposed to be easy. Why aren't you easy?"
I didn't particularly like any of those lines.
I didn't particularly like any of those lines.
Modifié par yorkj86, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:04 .
#14836
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:08
royceclemens
-
- Members
- 968 messages
This, york, I shall give you. The neutral options are give-and-take, old school Howard Hawks style. The Paragon options, in some cases, seem like Chad the Football Star hitting on the one girl who takes Metal Shop.
#14837
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:21
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
It's about like the "cheating" bs, that so many members argue over. You're in Liara's office, and you can't discuss the relationship with her? You've been dead for two years. People don't come back from being dead, after falling through a planet atmosphere, and landing on the surface, in reality. People communicate with one another about their relationship. You're going to tell me it's cheating? BS! It's an unrealistic relationship, with unrealistic circumstances surrounding it. You can't apply realistic principles.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:25 .
#14838
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:31
Gethforceone
-
- Members
- 620 messages
I agree with you on the top line, it just doesn't sound right.yorkj86 wrote...
Some of the lines are, admittedly, really poor. Meer does really make Shepard come off as a sleaze in some of them. At one "step" in the romance arc, there are a series of lines where Shepard sits down next to Jack on the cot. The upper-right option is repulsive. Shepard really does say that Jack doesn't know what she wants, and he's telling her what she wants. The middle option is a little more palatable, with Shepard asking Jack why she is making this difficult. That's the line to which she responds, "This is supposed to be easy. Why aren't you easy?"
I didn't particularly like any of those lines.
But I like the middle line its the only one that makes sense there.
#14839
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:39
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
I think that some people can't understand that Jack can show her interest in Shepard (provided that he doesn't take the Renegade Thrust option), just in a way that isn't Tali adorably taking Shepard's hand in the engine room, or Liara stumbling over her words (I'm not insulting either of those two romance-arcs).
If she really wasn't in the slightest bit interested, she would tell him to "f**k off". Instead, she humors him, and then finds that he may not be a user, after all. Then, it's Jack who betrays herself. We get an actual glimpse of her interest in Shepard when she asks him if he has feelings for her. Italics! It's Jack herself who eventually goes after Shepard.
If she really wasn't in the slightest bit interested, she would tell him to "f**k off". Instead, she humors him, and then finds that he may not be a user, after all. Then, it's Jack who betrays herself. We get an actual glimpse of her interest in Shepard when she asks him if he has feelings for her. Italics! It's Jack herself who eventually goes after Shepard.
Modifié par yorkj86, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:41 .
#14840
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:43
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
All of the LI's are interested in Shepard. How do you coerce someone that can't refuse you? How does that work? I'm not asking you directly york. I'm just asking the question.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:44 .
#14841
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 09:56
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
JohnnyDollar wrote...
All of the LI's are interested in Shepard. How do you coerce someone that can't refuse you? How does that work? I'm not asking you directly york. I'm just asking the question.
"Women in Bangladesh receive food aid only if they show a card confirming that they have been sterilized." Poor women are coerced in to sacrificing their reproductive freedom in order to receive the means by which to support their families. They cannot refuse the aid, because their children will starve. They are coerced in to accepting the terms of the agreement.
Like that?
#14842
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 10:05
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
I was talking about the game. None of the LI's can refuse Shepard in the game. How can Shepard coerce a LI, who can't refuse Shepard to begin with? However, those women that you speak of, have the choice to refuse. Therefore, they can refuse.yorkj86 wrote...
"Women in Bangladesh receive food aid only if they show a card confirming that they have been sterilized." Poor women are coerced in to sacrificing their reproductive freedom in order to receive the means by which to support their families. They cannot refuse the aid, because their children will starve. They are coerced in to accepting the terms of the agreement.JohnnyDollar wrote...
All of the LI's are interested in Shepard. How do you coerce someone that can't refuse you? How does that work? I'm not asking you directly york. I'm just asking the question.
Like that?
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:08 .
#14843
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 10:18
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
She can refuse, but she cannot win. That's coercion. She is presented with two unfair and unacceptable outcomes.
Your argument seems contrary to the spirit of roleplaying. Or, are you saying that the pretenses of roleplaying are completely eliminated by the scenario?
Your argument seems contrary to the spirit of roleplaying. Or, are you saying that the pretenses of roleplaying are completely eliminated by the scenario?
#14844
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 11:20
Weiser_Cain
-
- Members
- 1 945 messages
Not all the LI's can't say no...
As for Jack I wanted to be more... aggressive and still get the 'good' ending.
As for Jack I wanted to be more... aggressive and still get the 'good' ending.
#14845
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 11:37
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
The question was, how do you coerce someone that can't refuse. She can refuse.yorkj86 wrote...
She can refuse, but she cannot win. That's coercion. She is presented with two unfair and unacceptable outcomes.
Your argument seems contrary to the spirit of roleplaying. Or, are you saying that the pretenses of roleplaying are completely eliminated by the scenario?
Whether or not she wins, is irrelevant. What she is presented with, is irrelevant. Whatever the possible outcome is, is irrelevant, She can refuse, period. LI's can't refuse. If your Shepard wants one, he/she's got one. The Samara relationship, is not a romantic relationship, as far as I know. There is no romance scene with Samara, just prior to going through the Relay.
My argument is not contrary to the spirit of role playing. Only that I'm aware of it's limitations. I'm trying to be consistent. You can't apply realistic principles to unrealistic scenarios, and then turn around and dismiss them as limitations forced onto the player, whenever it's convenient. It's just like the Paragon/Renegade/trust scenario. You tell me that Jack has to be with someone that she can trust, and is not compatible with a renegade. Then I point out that a Paragon Shepard has no business romancing a criminal and murderer. That doesn't sound so good, though. So you dismiss it, by telling me that Shepard is a criminal by default, aboard a ship full of criminals, and it's forced on the player. Isn't that contrary to the spirit of roleplaying?
The logic "Bioware forcing Shepard to be a criminal, aboard a ship full of criminals", can be applied in the coercing scenario. How do you coerce a LI that can't refuse you? You don't. It's a limitation in the game. Realistic principles don't apply here. Just as realistic principles don't apply to a Paragon Shepard in a relationship with a thief, murder, exconvict, etc., right?
You can apply it to "cheating" also. There is no way of communicating, or ending a prior relationship, after being dead for 2 years, no less. It's a limitation put on you by the game.
Either it's a limitation of the game, and how it's forced on you, or it's the spirit of roleplaying. One or the other, not both.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:42 .
#14846
Posté 21 septembre 2010 - 11:50
Gethforceone
-
- Members
- 620 messages
Mondo47 wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
No, because my waifu is better than your waifu!
<_<
You know, I went over there to see how the land was lying after GodWood's "claymore vs. rapier"... and I see a entry that starts something like "Jack annoys me so much I'm not gonna talk to her until I do the Suicide Mission and let her die"... and I just have to thank the f*cking Gods above you lot are not quite so creepy, sweaty-palmed obsessed with Jack. I'm glad I was driven out of making any comment in the place all those months back.
Hello... fictional characters...
I don't really see whats creepy or obsessive about that statement.
Modifié par Gethforceone, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:50 .
#14847
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 22 septembre 2010 - 12:05
Guest_yorkj86_*
Guest_yorkj86_*
-
- Guests
The waifu statement is creepy. Having a waifu is creepy.
#14848
Posté 22 septembre 2010 - 12:12
Therion942
-
- Members
- 213 messages
yorkj86 wrote...
The waifu statement is creepy. Having a waifu is creepy.
You don't have a waifu? I have a waifu, I think you're just jealous because you don't have a waifu. Have I shown you my waifu? I have a pillow with my waifu on it.
#14849
Posté 22 septembre 2010 - 12:15
Mondo47
-
- Members
- 3 485 messages
Gethforceone wrote...
I don't really see whats creepy or obsessive about that statement.
Maybe it's just me here, but despising a character because they don't get on with your favorite character, to the extent where you actually stack the odds of the game to ensure they die, that seems a bit OTT to me. You can sacrifice a pawn as a game strategy that furthers victory, sure, but allowing it to be taken because you don't like its colour?
I dunno, maybe it's just me here Gethforce?
#14850
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 22 septembre 2010 - 12:17
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
-
- Guests
Isn't Mondo a teacher? Maybe she should start a thread called "class in session. Role playing vs reality. Fiction vs non fiction ".Gethforceone wrote...
Mondo47 wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
No, because my waifu is better than your waifu!
<_<
You know, I went over there to see how the land was lying after GodWood's "claymore vs. rapier"... and I see a entry that starts something like "Jack annoys me so much I'm not gonna talk to her until I do the Suicide Mission and let her die"... and I just have to thank the f*cking Gods above you lot are not quite so creepy, sweaty-palmed obsessed with Jack. I'm glad I was driven out of making any comment in the place all those months back.
Hello... fictional characters...
I don't really see whats creepy or obsessive about that statement.
One thing I like about teachers, you do something wrong, they make you do it over again.
I'll bet york knows what movie that came from.Edit: Testing...1 2 3. Some freaky stuff going on with the formatting here.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:27 .
