20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Gethforceone]

But its happening within the fiction.

To me. this is in the same league as fanfics or fan art, just being a fan of something.

Whats wrong with getting rid of a character you don't like in a game?



But if they start having fantasies of themselves with the fictional character or if it seriously impacts your life outside of entertainment, then I could see the problem.

[Therion942]

What's wrong with it is that it's done purely out of spite. There is no roleplaying justification.
Sure it makes sense if you're playing an extremely unbalanced character, but most of those people are probably doing it for the joy of being able to say "NYAH I GOT RID OF YOU BALDY"

Effectively what they've done is made their avatar act out of character to kill another character while said avatar goes on adhering to the archetype or morality or basic mien they've set up for it, except for that one occasion of temporary insanity (HAH). It's petty and as york said, contrary to the spirit of roleplaying.

I could also buy it if you were playing a HxC shoot first and ask questions later Renegade Shepard who thinks Jack was a serious risk to the mission and it was a mistake bringing her along, but the game never really gives us a chance to execute or dismiss squadmates on command.

Modifié par Therion942, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:43 .

[stewie1974]

I can't seriously romance Jack ..... friend sure... but relationship wise I know it's gonna turn into "She's Got Issues" by the offspring.




Basically playing nursemaid to jacks YEARS of psychological and emotional damage is kinda a full time job..
So is saving the galaxy....  I think shep is spreading himself too thin by persuing a relationship with Jack... trust me, damaged people are a LOT of work.....

And smart move sherlocks.... she tells you this story about this guy she loved who got himself killed....

You are
A. Going on a suicide mission.
B. Going on a suicide mission....

Just "imagine" for a moment it was possible for you to die and jack survive it ((we don't know In character that's not a possiblity))..... and just try to put it in to real life for a moment....

You'd basically be reinforcing that issue ALL OVER AGAIN.

Not to mention that shepard is not the "stay at home" type of person... his career is a particularlly violent one where death is only a stray bullet away...... what they would classify as a high risk job....given the thing that prevents her getting close to people is they end up dead or gone....

Jack has abandonement issues..... great choice of carreer there Shep...

Yeah , so maybe shep hasn't "coearced" her... but he's clearly not thought the decision through... 

Modifié par stewie1974, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

But its happening within the fiction.
To me. this is in the same league as fanfics or fan art, just being a fan of something.
Whats wrong with getting rid of a character you don't like in a game?

But if they start having fantasies of themselves with the fictional character or if it seriously impacts your life outside of entertainment, then I could see the problem.

If metagaming is affecting the fiction, it's bad roleplaying.  That's why it's wrong.

Okay,
1. You can get a character killed but you can't kill them (for most cases) so its not really OOC.
2.Its wrong in what way?   

[stewie1974]

To play devils advocate in the above argument.

Jack happens to be my favourite character in ME2...... so It's not something I would do... but.

You are shepard, you make decisions based on your own judgement. So maybe in character you chose the douche root with Jack.... and get them killed in character , Not doing their loyality mission you could decide in character, based purely on like or dislike.... after all you have chosen the douche conversation route with jack all the way through the game and clearly sided with others over her.

However sticking her in a "role" on the mission to which she's clearly not suited deliberately ...would be meta gaming. Unless you stuck her in the role with 100 percent clarity that she -was- suited to the role.

Modifié par stewie1974, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

Okay,
1. You can get a character killed but you can't kill them (for most cases) so its not really OOC.
2.Its wrong in what way?   

If the mechanism you use to remove a character from the narrative is to get them killed on the suicide mission, then it's not wrong, as long as your reason for doing so is not out-of-character/metagaming.  Just don't expect the narrative to accommodate your justification.

I just said why it's wrong.  The player's dislike of the character is getting the character killed, not Shepard's reasoning, as it could possibly fit within the narrative.  This is why I said that, unless Shepard is crazy, disliking a character is not a sufficient reason for getting it killed.

But if its only affecting the person playing, how is it wrong to you? 

[Gethforceone]

stewie1974 wrote...

To play devils advocate in the above argument.

Jack happens to be my favourite character in ME2...... so It's not something I would do... but.

You are shepard, you make decisions based on your own judgement. So maybe in character you chose the douche root with Jack.... and get them killed in character , Not doing their loyality mission you could decide in character, based purely on like or dislike.... after all you have chosen the douche conversation route with jack all the way through the game and clearly sided with others over her.

However sticking her in a "role" on the mission to which she's clearly not suited deliberately ...would be meta gaming. Unless you stuck her in the role with 100 percent clarity that she -was- suited to the role.

Not necessarily, not only are there a few logical ways to kill most characters.  But I'm sure someone could come up with a number of plausible reasons.

Modifié par Gethforceone, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:11 .

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

To play devils advocate in the above argument.

Jack happens to be my favourite character in ME2...... so It's not something I would do... but.

You are shepard, you make decisions based on your own judgement. So maybe in character you chose the douche root with Jack.... and get them killed in character , Not doing their loyality mission you could decide in character, based purely on like or dislike.... after all you have chosen the douche conversation route with jack all the way through the game and clearly sided with others over her.

However sticking her in a "role" on the mission to which she's clearly not suited deliberately ...would be meta gaming. Unless you stuck her in the role with 100 percent clarity that she -was- suited to the role.

As I said above, if the player wants Jack dead, and gives Shepard no adequate, sane reason (barring Shepard being quite crazy and/or deeply in to the ends-justify-the-means philosophy), then it is not a sufficient reason to get Jack killed.

"Jack is a ****ty character.  I'm going to get her killed."  Bad reason.
"Jack is a threat to the success of this mission.  I can't let let her recklessness potentially get in the way of me stopping the Reapers."  Good reason.

Isn't this somewhat subjective?

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

But if its only affecting the person playing, how is it wrong to you? 

It's not wrong to me, it's wrong in the spirit of roleplaying.  I couldn't care less what other people do in their saves, because their saves constitute separate realities.  I'm demonstrating that it's wrong, for roleplaying reasons, to kill Jack without having adequate roleplaying reasons.

The start of this argument was whether Or wot it was creepy or obsessive to dislike her hate a fictional character to the point of killing them or getting them killed within the fiction.
Not whether or not it was wrong from roleplaying standpoint.

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

The start of this argument was whether Or wot it was creepy or obsessive to dislike her hate a fictional character to the point of killing them or getting them killed within the fiction.
Not whether or not it was wrong from roleplaying standpoint.

Okay.  I think it is creepy and obsessive.

Well I don't,  so it looks like this debate is over, let's just agreed to disagree.

Modifié par Gethforceone, 22 septembre 2010 - 01:30 .

[Pacifien]

Any discussion about bumping the thread, page counts, "we're such an awesome thread," "their thread is the suck," etc. will get deleted. *Read This*

[axl99]

Creepy Jack is creepy. Funny you mention Hannibal now York.



When we got acquainted with Jack for the first time I was almost hoping for a Hannibal-esque encounter with her. Instead of us picking her brain apart, it'd be her doing all the picking. She'd outwit us, pick up on all our nasty little habits, delight us with her dark sense of humour, smile often enough to make us wrap ourselves around her little finger. I am talking about a full on renegade, scarier than renegade Shepard, Jack.