20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Urdaniel]

Thanks heaps axl.  You too, Mondo.  Btw, very interesting point about different ways of using mass effect fields.  Jack might not be the most acclaimed poet, but maybe her creativity is really rooted in the ways and means of mayhem.  Of course it got me to thinking: would she actually do something so precise as stopping individual projectiles (as opposed to just putting up a personal or area barrier) given how much more concentration that would likely require?  Admittedly a more widespread shield would suck up a lot more raw power than stopping projectiles would, but biotics use has always struck me as something of a tug of war between output and control.  There's also the question about whether anyone (even folks as heavily-modded as Jack and post-Lazarus Shep) would be fast enough to notice incoming rounds and react accordingly (which could account for why barriers tend to be all-coverage affairs - no Borg-style active shields for these guys).

[Barrendall]

Howdy guys it's been awhile. Glad to see Jack's following hasn't diminished. I myself like Jack's LM clothes a bit better because no one in their right mind would voluntarily keep wearing prison/jail garb. (Speaking from personal exp.) Jack wearing armor however....Meh. Doesn't seem her style imo. I still see her only in the belt bra from the waist up, but even the most hardened would take a shower and some sort of change of clothing after being busted out.

[Therion942]

yorkj86 wrote...

Someone just made a pretty good point in another thread.  If only asari can wield any substantial biotic power without amps, then Jack must be "rigged" to be extremely powerful without amps, or her recruitment mission doesn't make sense.  If that's the case, then she would have been drugged up on inhibitors, even while in cryo.  Either way, her amp would have been confiscated upon entry to the Purgatory. 
More stuff that's illogical

Perhaps Jack's amplifiers are of the internal you-can't-remove-this-unless-you-crack-open-a-part-of-my-body type.

Perhaps Jack has more than one amplifier to make her even that much more of an exemplary example of human biotic power, an internal one and later an external one that meshes with all the upgrades you get.
However, my money's on that the damned game has a massive, perilous chasm between the writing and the gameplay, because explosions r gud.

[Mondo47]

Therion942 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Someone just made a pretty good point in another thread.  If only asari can wield any substantial biotic power without amps, then Jack must be "rigged" to be extremely powerful without amps, or her recruitment mission doesn't make sense.  If that's the case, then she would have been drugged up on inhibitors, even while in cryo.  Either way, her amp would have been confiscated upon entry to the Purgatory. 
More stuff that's illogical

Perhaps Jack's amplifiers are of the internal you-can't-remove-this-unless-you-crack-open-a-part-of-my-body type.

Perhaps Jack has more than one amplifier to make her even that much more of an exemplary example of human biotic power, an internal one and later an external one that meshes with all the upgrades you get.
However, my money's on that the damned game has a massive, perilous chasm between the writing and the gameplay, because explosions r gud.

Well there is some text somewhere (can't remember where it is offhand) that says something about "multi-core implants". Now these could be taken to either be amps set up like multi-core processors, in order to handle greater complexity of field manipulation, or there could be a single amp with multiple seperate "cores" for handling complex actions as needs demand; you want to perform more difficult tasks using the amp system, then plug in more cores to the whole.

Now logically, if you go with the former option, you end up with one big amp, which has to grow in size to accomodate the multiple cores in the implant. This would place all Jack's eggs in one basket in a way, meaning a doctor could just dig out the single large amp and render her more or less powerless in one fell swoop. But Jack comes out of Cryo in MDK-mode, so that's obviously a no-go. So, what if the amp was immovable; say built around her spinal cord or skull? Interfering with the amp could be potentially fatal; thus risking Warden Kuril's income for keeping Jack locked up, but that doesn't explain why no-one else prior to Purgatory wouldn't have tried to hobble Jack's powers. Also Jack does have scars and the circuit-board tattoos on her spine, but she has them in plenty of other places too, so in my book at least the one big amp theory doesn't hold up against the wind - a great biotic wind

Taking the latter modular option to me makes much more sense: it makes the system expandable, thus future-proofing it for further research, and spreading the system out makes it less vulnerable to damage. Most biotics though wear external amps as part of their armour. Jack's costume would seem to argue against that, as do the circuit-board tattoos... so, since she is a constructed super-biotic, why not make the amps part of her; lace them over bones, implant them in deep tissue, stick them in gaps in the body cavity, etc. which leads us back to the concept of Jack's amps being implanted. After all it reduces the chance of damage to the system as a whole, renders it invisible to the naked eye, and makes it more or less impossible to remove short of major invasive surgery. If Cerberus was wanting to make a fully-weaponised biotic, it's really the most logical choice to go with. And it's expandable - nex tech can just be grafted into the system as and when required. Plus it covers the majority of gaps in Jack's logic and design (where are her amps, why does she wear next to nothing, what do some of those tattoos mean, etc.). Shepard himself/herself is a walking mess of microchips and tech, so why shouldn't Jack be too?

As for Jack coming out of Cryo in MDK-mode even with internal amps (thus requiring inhibitors to stop her going berserk 24/7), there's a really simple explaination for that; biotics only function when you're conscious. Jack uses a respirator in poor atmospheres, so biotics obviously can't make a bubble that sustains atmosphere or give you magic breath-anything powers, so... knock the b*tch out and freeze her. Gas her ass and throw her in the icebox. Hell, just clonk her on the noggin. Or just put inhibitors in the food supply for all prisoners and leave it at that... that also holds up with Jack's stories of biotic use while in prison; she'd know the inhibitors were in the food or water, so if she needed powers for something, she'd just not eat for a day or two... not really all that good for your body, but considering the hard life she's had, sh*t like that would be a cakewalk. And it explains why she's always "on" otherwise, as her powers function when she's asleep and require (as per the missing dialogue from Samara's recruitment mission) her to load up on drugs constantly to stop her powers getting out of hand or damaging things via subconscious action... Jack might have masses of control when she's awake, but when her concentration is impaired, stand well back and make no sudden movements. I somehow imagine Jack has to keep a very careful watch on her intake of certain recreational drugs or even little things like alcohol; Jack in lets-get-drunk-and-fool-around mode could do someone a serious mischief. Off to Mordin to get those bones reset...

I think this angle covers most of the gaps and logic-issues with Jack's powers. Feel free to disagree, but it's the line I take in my little stories at least because it solves the majority of issues with "How Jack Works".

Modifié par Mondo47, 10 octobre 2010 - 01:16 .

[adriano_c]

Barrendall111 wrote...

I myself like Jack's LM clothes a bit better because no one in their right mind would voluntarily keep wearing prison/jail garb.

I don't think the belt bra is standard prison issue, though.

Regardless, it's gotta go for the sequel. Not only does it look ridiculous, but it runs contrary to the character's whole demeanour. Is Jack really squeamish about nipples?

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

Regardless, it's gotta go for the sequel. Not only does it look ridiculous, but it runs contrary to the character's whole demeanour. Is Jack really squeamish about nipples?

No, I doubt very much that Jack really has any issues with nipples. But based on what happened with Giants: Citizen Kabuto, someone obviously does *cough*AmericanAudience*cough*

[Epantiras]

Speaking of the belt bra, there's another reason why Jack isn't barechested: as far as I know, in both Mass Effect and Dragon Age heads are treated "separately" from the body, therefore there *must* be something around the neck to hide the seams. That would explain why *every* DA character wears a necklace when in underwear and why Miranda still wears that weird black collar around her neck during the love scene with Shepard.I guess the collar of Jack's belt bra is there to hide the seam between the head and the body.Still, the leather bra seen in the fftl renders (and Axl's fan art as well) looks better than the belt bra imo ;-)

[axl99]

The problem with the neck thing is that there's still clipping during animation. I've never seen it happen with Jack, but I have seen it happen with Aria during the really closeup shots. Samara on the other hand, because of the way the mesh is skinned to the skeleton, her necklace/neckbrace thing moves along with the head.



Another reason is to hide the difference in texture resolution between heads and bodies. Monkey from Enslaved is guilty of this, on a bigger screen you can see the head's much more detailed and sharp than the rest of his body.

[Godeskian]

I like Jack for the simple reason that I do enjoy her journey from bitter self-hating psychotic, to a bitter, not so self-hating psychotic heroine. Sheploo or Femshep, both can call her out on her victim mentality (it's a renegade convervsation option).



Jack rules. I have a few pages of notes written on her character (it's a hobby, I psycho-analyse videogame characters) and she is easily the most interesting of the female LI's.

[Gethforceone]

Godeskian wrote...

... I do enjoy her journey from bitter self-hating psychotic, to a bitter, not so self-hating psychotic heroine.

That's great! Mind if I use that in my signature?

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
No, I doubt very much that Jack really has any issues with nipples. But based on what happened with Giants: Citizen Kabuto, someone obviously does *cough*AmericanAudience*cough*

If only the Americans could be like the Europeans, it would be a perfect world.  Give me a f*ckin break.

Of course they wouldn't. Maybe if they were a little less hung up on kids seeing nipples and being permanently warped, meanwhile exposing them to extremes of violence is perfectly fine, things might be a little more balanced. That's my only issue. British censorship was until about 15 years ago even more c*ckeyed, so I'm by no means saying we're perfect. And considering my partner is American and I've experienced life on both sides of the pond, I feel like I can poke fun with perspective. So give me a f*cking break and ease off on the flagwaving. It's called poking fun for a reason... no harm done.

[thesnake777]

I will agree with you mondo. On one hand we love extreme violence but then people freak out the second there's any nudity. It's all a bit silly. But that's how it is

[axl99]

adriano_c wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...

I myself like Jack's LM clothes a bit better because no one in their right mind would voluntarily keep wearing prison/jail garb.

I don't think the belt bra is standard prison issue, though.

Regardless, it's gotta go for the sequel. Not only does it look ridiculous, but it runs contrary to the character's whole demeanour. Is Jack really squeamish about nipples?

Would you want your jugs bouncing around in a fight? Ok so maybe a belt bra isn't exactly the best example of support for mammary glands, but sometimes something is better than nothing.

Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack just walked around the sub engineering deck all naked while her clothes are in the wash. If she does any laundry at all.

[Epantiras]

I live in Italy, in the TV ads shown in my country we get to see nipples while advertising things that have *absolutely* nothing to do with sex (like mobile phones). Yet they censor Naruto and other anime in order to hide sex and blood splatter scenes. And an ultra-violent movie like Apocalypto has been rated "Everyone" because it's "a historical film". I think there's a lot of hypocrisy... everywhere, not just in Italy/Europe/England/USA.

However, Bioware has been heavily criticized for their asari side-boobs in ME1 and it's understandable that they may try to avoid controversy at all costs. A character wearing a belt bra is still unconventional/appealin to young teenagers/is an aggressive look/insert_your_explainaton_here, but it's still *not* a bare breast. Also, remember that Jack was wearing her loyal outifit in the FFTL spot (the ones aired on TV).

EDIT: people, please! Keep politics out of this thread

Modifié par Epantiras, 10 octobre 2010 - 07:48 .

[Mondo47]

Ok, maybe I was a bit heavy with that, and I know you like being challenging, Johnny, but that just feels uncalled for. Yes, I have an issue with that aspect of Jack's design because it's illogical; go with the design from the rendered trailers. That is why I feel strongly about it; it's not like I think the world needs my rack on show, and I'm by no means some radical feminist, but it's something that means a lot to me, but we're still sitting in a place where women breastfeeding in public still get sneered at. I don't expect everyone to agree, but I'd have thought by now you and everyone else would know where I was coming from (since I've walked this line a few times now as you say).

I've obviously hit a nerve with this, so I'm sorry - it's not what I meant to do and I hope you understand that, but if what you're wanting here is a fight, I'm not giving you one. I'm out.

[Pacifien]

Real life socio-political discussion does not work on a gaming forum. As is readily apparently, it's inflammatory and leads to an antagonistic atmosphere. If someone has said something on the forums that has offended you, you can bring the post to the attention of a moderator or take it to PM. Any further discussion on this issue will be deleted.

[Godeskian]

Gethforceone wrote...

Godeskian wrote...

... I do enjoy her journey from bitter self-hating psychotic, to a bitter, not so self-hating psychotic heroine.

That's great! Mind if I use that in my signature?

Feel free.