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[tommyt_1994]

yorkj86 wrote...

Does anyone remember if Jack actually, verbally accepts that some of the other children at Teltin had it worse than she did?

I don't believe she ever does accept that they had it worse. She does say something along the lines of "yeah they had it bad" later on in the mission though, I think.

[Pacifien]

tommyt_1994 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Does anyone remember if Jack actually, verbally accepts that some of the other children at Teltin had it worse than she did?

I don't believe she ever does accept that they had it worse. She does say something along the lines of "yeah they had it bad" later on in the mission though, I think.

Can't quite remember, but I think her dialogue upon meeting Aresh is "maybe the other kids had it bad, but what you're doing is just messed."

And thinking about that dialogue, I'm reminded of Jack's tone upon finding out that Cerberus planned to piggyback onto the Ascension Project. She sounds genuinely worried that they could be doing the same thing somewhere else to someone else.

[Pacifien]

Posted the following to the Samara thread, but since not everyone I know will look at that thread, repost:

There's enough overlap between the people I see in both the Samara and Jack threads to make me wonder what draws the same people to these two characters. Then I learn they were the domain of the same writer. He's not with Bioware anymore, though. Wonder what that means for the two characters future, if capturing their voice is easy for the other writers.

[GodWood]

Does anyone else pair Jack off with a renegade Shepard (still paragon romance though).
If so how do you play their romance out?

Pacifien wrote...
There's enough overlap between the people I see in both the Samara and Jack threads to make me wonder what draws the same people to these two characters. Then I learn they were the domain of the same writer. He's not with Bioware anymore, though. Wonder what that means for the two characters future, if capturing their voice is easy for the other writers.

****, I hope this doesn't result in some Liara effect where shes past off to someone who clearly doesn't get the character.

Modifié par GodWood, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:06 .

[Therion942]

GodWood wrote...

Does anyone else pair Jack off with a renegade Shepard (still paragon romance though).
If so how do you play their romance out?

Pacifien wrote...
There's enough overlap between the people I see in both the Samara and Jack threads to make me wonder what draws the same people to these two characters. Then I learn they were the domain of the same writer. He's not with Bioware anymore, though. Wonder what that means for the two characters future, if capturing their voice is easy for the other writers.

****, I hope this doesn't result in some Liara effect where shes past off to someone who clearly doesn't get the character.

I don't think there will be a situation created where the player will need to be encouraged to cheat on his past love interest in ME3.
This is all assuming that the team gets carried over in to ME3.
Yes I'm one of those tinfoil hat sorts when it comes to the Virmire Survivor/Liara derptasticness.

[Pacifien]

GodWood wrote...
****, I hope this doesn't result in some Liara effect where shes past off to someone who clearly doesn't get the character.

I think they did good damage control on Liara's character with Lair of the Shadow Broker, though. Her role was so small in the main game, whoever had to write that portion didn't really get an opportunity to seriously think about who she is supposed to be. Or I'd like to think that's the reason, but now I'm thinking about how she was written in Redemption...

[adriano_c]

Pacifien wrote...

Posted the following to the Samara thread, but since not everyone I know will look at that thread, repost:

There's enough overlap between the people I see in both the Samara and Jack threads to make me wonder what draws the same people to these two characters.

Yeah, this has come up before, actually. Still no real answer, laf...

[GodWood]

Pacifien wrote...

GodWood wrote...
****, I hope this doesn't result in some Liara effect where shes past off to someone who clearly doesn't get the character.

I think they did good damage control on Liara's character with Lair of the Shadow Broker, though. Her role was so small in the main game, whoever had to write that portion didn't really get an opportunity to seriously think about who she is supposed to be. Or I'd like to think that's the reason, but now I'm thinking about how she was written in Redemption...

What I gathered from the Liara threads was:
Mac wrote Liara in the comics and in ME2.
Patrick Weekes wrote her in LotSB.

[adriano_c]

This expression was somewhat amusing to me.

[Pacifien]

GodWood wrote...
What I gathered from the Liara threads was:
Mac wrote Liara in the comics and in ME2.
Patrick Weekes wrote her in LotSB.

Yeah, I'd read that as well. I was going to go "Patrick Weekes for head writer," but then I remembered he wrote somewhere that he didn't particularly like the character of Jack. I mean, as an actual person, he didn't like the type of person Jack was. He might be able to write a character like Jack with no problem. Mark of a good writer, I suppose, is to write a character that you personally don't like and write the character well.

Given a writing team of several people, I'd hope that each character get a written treatment from each writer and they decide who was best able to capture the voice. Take Mondo: she writes a great Jack and a great Kasumi. But does Mondo write a good Kelly? Hmm...

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...
*snip*
This expression was somewhat amusing to me.

That image really does have me hearing her go "Heeeeere's JACKIE!" with an axe in her hands.

[adriano_c]

That concept art doesn't really imply 'master of guns' to me, more so just graceful and acrobatic (which she can be, according to the surveillance footage, as opposed to just some ball of hate and destruction or whatever the quote is).

[Pacifien]

You know, I used to think of Samara as being a graceful biotic while Jack is a brute biotic, but I'm starting to think of Samara as a methodical biotic while Jack is an acrobatic biotic. Trying to describe the difference, a graceful biotic is one who is very sweeping in biotic mnemonics and nuanced in its application. While a brute biotic would be one who puts power behind the application of one's biotics. Think of Samara as being able to entrap through clever use of biotics while Jack focuses on the kill.

But after watching the surveillance videos, Samara may be graceful in her walk, but she seems a bit deliberate in her actual use of biotics. She moves only as is necessary to use her biotics with little flourish. But Jack is a spectacle of biotic power. She defies gravity, whips it around, brings it crashing behind her. It's like watching Samara is watching a painter, but watching Jack is watching a dancer.

[adriano_c]

@Pacifien,

I like the breakdown, for the most part. Samara has a very purposeful but fluid way of moving, with little wasted motion. Meanwhile, Jack's the perfect storm, laf.

[Epantiras]

GodWood wrote...

Does anyone else pair Jack off with a renegade Shepard (still paragon romance though).
If so how do you play their romance out?

Pacifien wrote...
There's enough overlap between the people I see in both the Samara and Jack threads to make me wonder what draws the same people to these two characters. Then I learn they were the domain of the same writer. He's not with Bioware anymore, though. Wonder what that means for the two characters future, if capturing their voice is easy for the other writers.

****, I hope this doesn't result in some Liara effect where shes past off to someone who clearly doesn't get the character.

What!? Oh noes, I hope whoever will write Jack and Samara will be up to the task
And maybe they should take a look here in the forums for tips.

I agree that Liara didn't get enough screen time in vanilla ME2, same for the Virmire survivor. Unluckily, the Visur had a "fixed" role in the plot, they both had to say "I hate you because you're a cerberus dog now", all the writers could do was choosing the right words.
I liked Liara's developement in Lotsb... because I absolutely hated her in ME1 :-) but I think that kind of  "character developement" is decided by someone high in the developing team hierarchy, not by a single writer.



EDIT: Sweet Lord of Murder! Did you see those custom Mass Effect figures here social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/4863185 ? There's Jack too

Modifié par Epantiras, 17 octobre 2010 - 09:02 .

[AntiChri5]

Samara is watching a painter, but watching Jack is watching a dancer.

Thats really well put.

[Weiser_Cain]

I get paint in my mouth every time I pick up a brush, so I'm confused by that statement.

[Mondo47]

When it comes to the writing of Jack in the next episode, I think that if someone else is holding the reins we do always have one ace left in our hole - Casey loves Jack. I doubt he'd let her stray too far from what he likes about her. As for Weekes not being keen on Jack... well, it's obvious he's a decent writer, so maybe, based on his comments at least, what he dislikes about Jack is either she's no fun (based on the field day he had with Mordin), she'd be outside his writer's comfort zone, or it's her score on the Clicheometer.

Basically, her appearance isn't really cliche - it's not overdone like some other "badass" tropes like black leather costumes or an inability to crack a smile... that much ink on a gal isn't really ingrained in the cultural psyche yet. The "Angry Abuse-du-Jour Survivor" is however; how many times have we seen a Jack, who has endured whatever violations, mutilations and depredations required by the plot to just arise as some scarred phoenix determined to make everyone pay until some good guy comes along to hug her all better and make her back into a normal vulnerable pop-culture-acceptable female? It really is as old as the hills. And it's usually handled dreadfully. Not so in Jack's case, but usually these angry women suck on the page. I really don't like them for the same reason, and the reason they usually suck is because they're written so often by men (not meaning that in a sexist fashion, no, just that your average male writer doesn't know a lot about the female condition to really translate it to the page well - there are many exceptions to this, but largely these characters seem paper-thin plot devices). Maybe Weekes thought there wasn't much chance of him doing the part justice? I don't know, but I think I can understand the apparent issues with Jack from a writer's perspective... characters like Jack can be like doing a Rubix cube with only one hand.

It'd be like me trying to write Kelly No, seriously, I think I could make Kelly interesting to me at least, but she'd probably stop being Kelly then, who I can't read as anything other than one-dimensional and extremely unprofessional... talking window dressing.

Epantiras wrote...

EDIT: Sweet Lord of Murder! Did you see those custom Mass Effect figures here social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/4863185 ? There's Jack too

Those do look quite nice, but damn - someone feed Urz!

[AntiChri5]

some good guy comes along to hug her all better and make her back into a normal vulnerable pop-culture-acceptable female?

I really hope this isnt the way things end with Jack. Her with long flowing locks in a nice dress with flowers on it.....

~runs off to vomit~

[axl99]

I wouldn't mind her in this dress