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[Mondo47]

And damn is that crappy motivational getting torn a new one in there! And not just by Jackolytes!

Our girl is turning into a real underground success around here

[Barrendall]

Mondo47 wrote...

And damn is that crappy motivational getting torn a new one in there! And not just by Jackolytes!

Our girl is turning into a real underground success around here

Feed him to the Sharks!  Wait...oh yeah that's us huh?  Scratch that.  

[Gokuthegrate]

Jack seems like an intersting choice for LI in ME2. Dont understand why Femshep wasnt allowed to romance Jack.

[Isaidlunch]

Mondo47 wrote...
Our girl is turning into a real underground success around here [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Definitely, I was surprised to see how much support she got in the Miranda vs Jack thread!

I just completed Overlord the other day and I wondered how Jack would have reacted if she saw what happened to David Archer. Would she have stepped in and done something if Shepard left him with his brother? His situation reminds me a lot of Jack's and I don't think Jack could just leave him there knowing what would happen to him.

Gokuthegrate wrote...

Jack seems like an intersting choice for LI in ME2. Dont understand why Femshep wasnt allowed to romance Jack.

I'm guessing Bioware wanted to avoid getting unwanted attention for making a stereotypical lesbian LI (or at least what everyone perceives the stereotype to be).

Modifié par Kazanth, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:09 .

[Gokuthegrate]

Kazanth wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Our girl is turning into a real underground success around here ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

Definitely, I was surprised to see how much support she got in the Miranda vs Jack thread!

I just completed Overlord the other day and I wondered how Jack would have reacted if she saw what happened to David Archer. Would she have stepped in and done something if Shepard left him with his brother? His situation reminds me a lot of Jack's and I don't think Jack could just leave him there knowing what would happen to him.

Gokuthegrate wrote...

Jack seems like an intersting choice for LI in ME2. Dont understand why Femshep wasnt allowed to romance Jack.

I'm guessing Bioware wanted to avoid getting unwanted attention for making a stereotypical lesbian LI (or at least what everyone perceives the stereotype to be).

Sorry but whats the stereotype?
I think they just didnt want FOX on them again

[Collider]

The FOX news controversy had nothing to do with homosexual content though. Only the fact that there was "nudity" in the heterosexual romance scenes (as well as ridiculous lies like that Shepard can sleep with whatever woman he wanted in the game in any way he wanted) They never brought up the lesbian romance that was possible and maybe didn't even know about it.

[Mondo47]

Kazanth wrote...

I just completed Overlord the other day and I wondered how Jack would have reacted if she saw what happened to David Archer. Would she have stepped in and done something if Shepard left him with his brother? His situation reminds me a lot of Jack's and I don't think Jack could just leave him there knowing what would happen to him.

I think she'd take one look at David and put a bullet in him. And then twist his brother's arms and legs off really slowly. That was at least my gut reaction the first time I finished it; he was never going to be normal again after what was done to him, and death would probably have been a mercy (though the game never gives the option for a mercy-killing, I really wish it had been there) and have ended any chance of his further exploitation right there and then. I can see that as a fairly Jack-ish reaction.

[Gokuthegrate]

yorkj86 wrote...

Gokuthegrate wrote...

Sorry but whats the stereotype?
I think they just didnt want FOX on them again

That all women who appear as Jack does, and who behave as Jack does, are homosexual, or bisexual.  Jack could play in to many, many stereotypes simultaneously, but she defied a lot of people's expectations (apparently) by turning FemShep down.

To bad. Jack would of been interesting as a LI.

[RocShemp]

What's interesting is that Jack alludes to being bisexual in her talks with my male Shepard. I'm surprised the female Shepard can't romance her.

[axl99]

Just because Jack used to be bisexual doesn't necessarily mean she wants to stay that way forever. It's interesting how she prefers just being friends with a female Shepard.

If you do hunt around on youtube you can find a vid of Liara and femme Shep after the Shadow Broker mission where they talk about Jack. The dialogue is pretty much the same as what's there for the male Shepard, but the main point is that Bioware did at one point consider Jack as a an optional female LI. This is the same thing they pulled with femme Shep and Ashley in ME1 and to some degree Tali in ME2. The voice tracks are there, just not used in game.

Modifié par axl99, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Gethforceone]

Mondo47 wrote...

And damn is that crappy motivational getting torn a new one in there! And not just by Jackolytes!

Our girl is turning into a real underground success around here

I hope so.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I suspect it's the third one personally. Or something involving the content originally being there but not in the final cut of the game. Because I've heard the audio files. Just like Ashley and Kaiden. It kind of bothered me a bit. In retrospect, it probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference for my games, because the only female Shepard I had lined up in the immediate future that would have romanced her was a renegade and would have taken the renegade sex scene but still...



But the principle irritated me more than it might have with another character because A) There's still references to her possibly having sex with women left in the game and Not unlike Garrus INSUFFERABLE calibrations, Jack's dialogue closes off rather sharply if you do not romance her, and that includes all female Shepards because they can't.



It's sorta like if Bioware basically had this scene play out:



Jack: I may have a harsh exterior but, don't worry, you'll still have a chance to get to know me better.



Female Shepard: Oh, good. Really?



Jack: No.

[GodWood]

From this thread.

Getorex wrote...

On the subject of sorts...what's up with Jack? Hell, you head down and make a play for her and she jumps you just fine. She has a good time, YOU have a good time. Good times had by all. After that it's all attitude. "You had your fun, now it done" kind of crap.



Oh yeah Jack? YOU had YOUR fun too, as I recall. YOU were moaning and groaning right there with me. I know you got off a couple times so I know this wasn't a "chore" or drudgery but now you have a problem with it and pretend you didn't enjoy the ride too? Don't want to do it again? WTF is the matter with you? Is this another "issue" from your torturous childhood? GET OVER IT.

[Mondo47]

GodWood wrote...

From this thread.

Getorex wrote...
On the subject of sorts...what's up with Jack? Hell, you head down and make a play for her and she jumps you just fine. She has a good time, YOU have a good time. Good times had by all. After that it's all attitude. "You had your fun, now it done" kind of crap.

Oh yeah Jack? YOU had YOUR fun too, as I recall. YOU were moaning and groaning right there with me. I know you got off a couple times so I know this wasn't a "chore" or drudgery but now you have a problem with it and pretend you didn't enjoy the ride too? Don't want to do it again? WTF is the matter with you? Is this another "issue" from your torturous childhood? GET OVER IT.

And sometimes I really wonder how any teenaged boy ever managed to get in me... <_<

[axl99]

Read that post among others yeah. "Friends with benefits?" "Bedwarmers?" Bodies aren't the only thing people bring to bed with them.

[SpiderFan1217]

Such a hurtful post in the moivationals thread. I always thought my standards were a little too high.

[Mondo47]

Ah, it's no big deal... some people still just can't get over the hairdo. Their loss

[Epantiras]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
It's sorta like if Bioware basically had this scene play out:

Jack: I may have a harsh exterior but, don't worry, you'll still have a chance to get to know me better.

Female Shepard: Oh, good. Really?

Jack: No.

^^^^^ this ;-)

Maybe Bioware chickened out or maybe they thought that following the "badass butch bisex girl" cliché was... well a cliché. And don't forget that some Biodude (was it Chris Priestly?) stated that "there is no homosexuality in the Mass Effect games" (and pigs can fly).
I wonder what they'll do with Isabela in Dragon Age 2 9_9

Modifié par Epantiras, 28 octobre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Collider]

Wait, someone's complaining about the casual sex option? lol

[Mondo47]

I don't think he's complaining about it per-se, just that a woman can get some and then tell him to f*ck off... heaven forbid that women use sex as a weapon or simply change their minds about you once they get the measure of you or they just plain decide your dick just isn't that impressive. Heh heh heh heh heh...

Modifié par Mondo47, 28 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .

[RocShemp]

Epantiras wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
It's sorta like if Bioware basically had this scene play out:

Jack: I may have a harsh exterior but, don't worry, you'll still have a chance to get to know me better.

Female Shepard: Oh, good. Really?

Jack: No.

^^^^^ this ;-)

Maybe Bioware chickened out or maybe they thought that following the "badass butch bisex girl" cliché was... well a cliché. And don't forget that some Biodude (was it Chris Priestly?) stated that "there is no homosexuality in the Mass Effect games" (and pigs can fly).
I wonder what they'll do with Isabela in Dragon Age 2 9_9

The funny thing is that Jack doesn't come across as butch to me.  Having met plenty of butch lesbians myself, Jack is practically a girly girl by comparison.

[Mondo47]

The butch thing is more of a visual thing than an actual demonstrable behavioural thing. Sure, Jack is sexually assertive, but she's not dominant sexually because of her ambivalence to sex insofar as the Renegade sexual encounter; sure, she might get some pleasure from it, but all it is is a means to an end to reveal the true intentions of this irritating, full-of-questions Shepard guy. And while she's tough, she's feminine enough not to render her character's more steretypically-expected female characteristics moot (as in she displays strong emotions like romantic attraction, sorrow, remorse - all "weak" and thus "feminine" emotional aspects - stupid I know, but there it is) . I think the butch tag comes from a very lazy visual stereotype of what makes a bull ****** (in itself a pretty outmoded label): little more than Jack having a "masculine" hairstyle, and peripherally the way she presents herself visually (half-naked in a way that isn't presented as a way to accentuate her femininity, and displaying masses of body art - something which is only now beginning to become meaningless as a sexual signifyer in our new global culture, thanks in no small part to our embracing of "modern primitivism"... tattoos are no longer for sailors  ).

As you say, it doesn't really fit Jack, but once a label is applied - regardless of where it came from - it enters the dialogue attached to the labelled thing... in this case our favorite bad girl.

[Elyvern]

 Butch-types try to set themselves as opposites of femme-lesbs and part of that culture involves hiding or de-accentuating feminine parts of their body. In no way does Jack reflect that kind of mentality. I'd say Jack is entirely a class of her own. Despite her shaved head, I think the biggest factor is how she uses her body as an almost sexually-neutral presentation vehicle for her tatoos. That really takes away the sexual factor of her exposedness for me personally.The only gripe I have that is remotely sexual or gender-tinged is how unrealistic a chest-strap is.