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[MHRazer]

yorkj86 wrote...

From a writing standpoint, was that done particularly well, the way the writers went out of their way to avoid revealing to the player who/what Jack is?  Until she pops out of cryo, we have no idea what to expect.  If Bioware hadn't released those trailers of Jack before the release of the game, would the in-game reveal have been that much better?

It was done well. Having not seen the trailers before playing the game, I was completely shocked. The that's Jack? reveal was a very large factor in what got me interested in her character in the first place.

Also the reason I'm going to try my best not to watch any squadmate/follower trailers for both ME3 and DA2.

[Epantiras]

I've just realized something - I apologize if it has already been mentioned on this forum and I didn't pay attention ;-)

During the romance scene, Jack's mascara flows away with her tears. Well, that heavy makeup make her look aggressive, doesn't it? It's part of her barrier/mask to keep other away, isn't it? So... flowing mascara = Jack's mask disappearing!? Does Mass Effect really have metaphors?
Ok, it's a stupid theory ;-)

Aaaaannnndddd yes, I'll try to avoid squadmates trailers for ME3 and DA2 as well.

Modifié par Epantiras, 29 octobre 2010 - 09:23 .

[Mondo47]

Yep, the game does have metaphors up the wazoo, Big E - you ain't mad!

[Mondo47]

The really sad thing is, a lot of people don't. It's not so bad now, mind you... I think with passage of time, more people completing multiple runs through the game, etc. that Jack is actually being looked at by people that may have ignored her due to her not fitting a particular feminine ideal, disliking her attitude, getting their fingers burned by the Renegade sex scene or siding with Miranda, just plain completionism, whatever. People are beginning to look at her with less tinted eyes (hey, I'm the first to say I wasn't keen on Miranda, now I have developed a lot more empathy for the character... I might not be a huge fan, but I'd not toss her out the airlock for arguing with Jack anymore). More people are "getting" her now, and sure, some people will still be bemused as to how a woman crying fits into a love scene, but I think everything will make sense eventually for everyone. All the people coming to Jack with new perspectives will take what they want from the experience - all a good thing if you ask me.

And the people that just don't like her because she shaves her head and has too many tattoos... eh, who cares about them?

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Mondo47 wrote...


And the people that just don't like her because she shaves her head and has too many tattoos... eh, who cares about them?

I'm going to reiterate something that I wrote in response to one of the pics in the motivational thread... I really like Jack. I think that she has a really good character, and she would be my top romance choice, hands down. However. I really, really, really dislike her clothes (or lack thereof). The secondary clothing option does not change the fact that the default one is there, and I personally think that her lack of a shirt really detracts from her character's appeal personally. I understand where the devs were coming from in wanting to show as many tattoos as possible and making a statement about her character (and I really like her tattoos!), but I think it just turns out wrong, which is really a shame. <_<

As for her baldness, personally I do value looks in a romance -I think it's easy to say most people do- and I just don't like it. I'm willing to overlook it though, since it doesn't irk me that much. But I just can't overlook her outfit for the life of me.

[Gethforceone]

yorkj86 wrote...
But seriously, whenever someone tells me that the crying turns them off to the Jack romance arc, it makes me wonder if they fully understand Jack's character.

Out of all the reasons of I've heard of people hating Jack, that's one of the dumber ones.

[Pacifien]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...
*snip*
As for her baldness, personally I do value looks in a romance -I think it's easy to say most people do- and I just don't like it. I'm willing to overlook it though, since it doesn't irk me that much. But I just can't overlook her outfit for the life of me.

I don't have a problem with people who find these sort of things that turn them off a character or a romance. Little personality quirks do make or break relationship possibilities.

The following is in no way directed to EffectedByTheMasses, I just used his post as the jumping off point for a much broader rant. Probably influenced by the infamous Isabela discussions of the Dragon Age 2 boards. But I have to add the disclaimer, because I can imagine him reading the rest of this wondering "where the **** did that come from and why is it directed at me?!" It's not, I swear.

I don't like it when people then say those little details should have been changed to then make the character more acceptable. That idea if only BioWare did just a few things differently, it would have been enough to meet the person's standards. I just have a feeling that it's a disappointment the player has to learn to accept. Some relationships are close enough but no cigar. You either then learn to accept what turns you off in order to get into the meatier details of the relationship or you decide it's a deal-breaker and no relationship occurs.

Thing about the different characters and relationships is that they're running the gamut of the various types of relationships you can have in real life. Not every possible relationship that one can have in real life is going to be your cup of tea, so you simply don't have those types of relationships. Same with games, if the character isn't written in the manner that your comfortable with to pursue the romance path, you just don't do it. Or you learn to roleplay it as is the appeal of roleplaying games.

When you find yourself thinking "Jack is great, but if only they had done this with her, then I could have romanced her" then you're not really accepting the character as she's presented to you. It's the person who starts a relationship with a guy thinking she can change his horrible dressing habits after they start dating. Yeah, no one should go into a relationship already thinking about ways to fix the other person to suit you better.

[NICKjnp]

axl99 wrote...

What? G.I Jane?

Are Jack's tats seriously the first thing most people remember seeing of her? I saw the surgical scars underneath them in the closeups about 10 seconds into her reveal trailer. She's seriously scarred all over!

I think one of the first things I remember about ME2 is that it was turned into Boobs Effect 2.  Every female squadmate had their boobs focussed on in some way.  It just seemed odd how there was such a shift from the first game in that sense.

[tommyt_1994]

NICKjnp wrote...

axl99 wrote...

What? G.I Jane?

Are Jack's tats seriously the first thing most people remember seeing of her? I saw the surgical scars underneath them in the closeups about 10 seconds into her reveal trailer. She's seriously scarred all over!

I think one of the first things I remember about ME2 is that it was turned into Boobs Effect 2.  Every female squadmate had their boobs focussed on in some way.  It just seemed odd how there was such a shift from the first game in that sense.

I think the EA partnership and the success of ME1 were the main factor's of the "dumbing down" of ME2. The relationship between EA and Bioware is reminiscent of the relationship between Lupe Fiasco and Atlantic Records. If anyone here got that reference I'm proud, very very proud. Basically, Atlantic Records wanted Lupe Fiasco to dumb down his newest album and make it more mainstream. There was this huge debate and 2+ years later, Lupe (Bioware in this analogy) won. I think EA did the same with Bioware. Only difference is, Lupe Fiasco held out and won his battle, unlike Bioware. Did EA play ME2, and make Bioware simplify it? No, but I'm sure they gave their opinions. Like Atlantic, money was the biggest factor here, not the fans.

PS: I just realized that all of those "dumb it down" references I was making, probably flew over everyone's head. It's a song by Lupe Fiasco, wherein he addresses that very topic. Most. Complex. Song. Ever. Only if you can look past the hook, which is in fact quite intentionally ironic. I suggest youtubing it or something, definetly worth it.

Ohh back OT: The only thing I particularly dislike about the Jack romance has nothing to do with Jack herself. I hate how Shepard has this whole "I know you want this" attitude throughout the whole thing. Jack kept pushing him away but Shepard kept coming back like a creepy stalker. Not at all Jack's fault of course, just Bioware's. It pushes me away from a fantastic character.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 30 octobre 2010 - 02:35 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

I was glad that Jack/Subject Zero was a much more rounded and interesting character than either of her teaser trailers made her out to be. In fact I believe all the teaser trailers were meant to get the 14 year old FPS kiddies out there stoked for the game. I think it's a valid point that the Subject Zero reveal would have been much better if done entirely in game. By BioWare doing all those teaser trailers there was no big discoveries or surprises, we already knew who was coming onboard.



I really liked the full CG render of Jack though, just didn't care for the silly monologue that plagued all the teaser trailers.

[RocShemp]

I'm so glad I never saw any of the teaser trailers for Mass Effect 2. The first time I saw Jack was when I played the demo of ME2.



Well, technically the first time I saw her was when I saw the launch trailer for ME2. But for some reason the image of her didn't stick with me. It sure did when I first played the Purgatory level, however.



She's such a deep and wonderful character. I hope Bioware delves more into her personality in ME3.

[adriano_c]

Knowing Bioware, she'll be reduced to a cameo (pumping gas on Omega or something), to "make room for a new and exciting cast that everyone can enjoy equally."

[RocShemp]

I hope not. I was seriously pissed when the bulk of the ME1 cast were reduced to cameos. Given ME3 is meant to end the saga of Shepard, I hope all these people that were important in his/her journey will all get ample time to grow and shine in ME3.

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

Knowing Bioware, she'll be reduced to a cameo (pumping gas on Omega or something), to "make room for a new and exciting cast that everyone can enjoy equally."

They do something like that, then I at the very least will be out. The Reapers can be coming for bloody ever for all I care. I'm not quite so pessimistic, but if they toss all this setup out the window... well, they're dumber than I thought. And I stopped giving greedy idiots money roughly the same time I stopped playing World of Warcraft

[Barrendall]

Mondo47 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

Knowing Bioware, she'll be reduced to a cameo (pumping gas on Omega or something), to "make room for a new and exciting cast that everyone can enjoy equally."

They do something like that, then I at the very least will be out. The Reapers can be coming for bloody ever for all I care. I'm not quite so pessimistic, but if they toss all this setup out the window... well, they're dumber than I thought. And I stopped giving greedy idiots money roughly the same time I stopped playing World of Warcraft

^ ^ This. 

[Skyline_Stanza]

Forgettable characters?!

IN MY ME?! Travesty, I say! Utter blasphemy!



.....Don't reduce any of the squad to cameo status, Bioware. I want them ALL BACK, Jack included.

[Barrendall]

yorkj86 wrote...

I'd like to imagine that Bioware will create some mess for the player to endure if he cheated on Jack, or if he went from Liara to Jack and back to Liara, but...I don't know.  I'm almost scared to think about how that mess would play out.  It wouldn't be pretty, nor should it be 

It definitely would be interesting however.  I've kept one playthrough loyal but I'm not sure what order I'll play it through when MEIII comes out.  Most of them I've went with Jack.  I've done Tali's and Miranda's once. 

[Epantiras]

adriano_c wrote...

Knowing Bioware, she'll be reduced to a cameo (pumping gas on Omega or something), to "make room for a new and exciting cast that everyone can enjoy equally."

[Dominus5412]

I swear I'm the only one who wouldn't mind a new cast of characters.

[adriano_c]

Yes, you're the only one.



Other possible explanations for Jack in a cameo-only role? Busy having joined the Chantry in Lothering? Tied to a stake in the Athkatla Government District?

[Loki330]

Mondo47 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

From a writing standpoint, was that done particularly well, the way the writers went out of their way to avoid revealing to the player who/what Jack is?  Until she pops out of cryo, we have no idea what to expect.  If Bioware hadn't released those trailers of Jack before the release of the game, would the in-game reveal have been that much better?

In one word - YES!

If only they'd kept a lid on it... but then again, she was drafted into the marketing tool department to be the badass sexy alt-gal.

I was lucky enough to go into it blind; I had got ME1 in a steam sale But wasn't that itnerested in ME2. Then I was at a friends house and he was showing myself and some other friends what they'd modified (included adding Ye Vanguarde Charge) and when ME2 was released (I didn't pre-order it) I thought '....eh, sure, why not. It's Bioware and I enjoyed ME1, and ME2 certainly seems just as/more fun.'

Anyway, when I got to Purgatory I didn't have any expectations; I suppose I was already mentally expecting something either foulmouthed and agressive or more silence of the lambs style for a character going ff the Warden's buildup. Ultimately it was more grunt's reaction.

Robot claw's going through the motions
So, what's behind door #1, what am I getting...
Mist clears and it reveals a tatttoo covered girl
(Brings up Steam's ingame chat to talk to my friend who'd been showing the game off the day before) ...Okay. I wasn't expecting Jack to look like that.
3 YMIR mechs explode
(Steam IM again) ...I think I like this girl.
Goes downstairs to the see the hole punched in the wall and the warden screaming hysterically
(Steam again) I really like this girl.
Arrives at the first cell block and sees all the carnage
(Final steam message to my friend) Did I say I like this girl? I meant I *love* her!


The sheer mayhem she caused instantly got her a place in my heart. It made me think of my vanguard. =3

[Pacifien]

Dominus5412 wrote...
I swear I'm the only one who wouldn't mind a new cast of characters.

You're not the only one. I actually don't mind cameos for old characters if the cameo was done much as Wrex. Or if their role was played out much like Liara. I don't mind old squadmates being unavailable because they're busy doing something else.

I mentioned it kind of off hand in an older post, but the idea kinda grew on me that Jack would be at the Ascension Project in an unofficial capacity by ME3.