20813 réponses à ce sujet

[BobbyTheI]

royceclemens wrote...

It's gotten to the point where the hair isn't really the issue anymore. Whether she gets hair or not is up to BioWare at this point. We have to think about why she has the haircut; namely that she likes it. If she found another haircut she likes more, that's not in our power, and we can yay-or-nay it when she shows up in ME3.

The fact of the matter is that Jack is bald because Jack wants to be bald. Not because they have shaved scalps in the Traumatic Backstory Starter Kit, ready to be grown back out again when she meets That Certain Special Someone. What you're proposing, Undertone, is that she change specifically for you because you romanced her. And that derails the character. If she gets hair, she gets hair. She shouldn't have the option to get hair just because you or me or anyone else got their cuddle on with her. Hair for all or hair for none.

I understand that you want a visible confirmation that you made a positive impact on someone's life. It's admirable, man, I like it. But what you're contributing to the discussion is that she do something she wouldn't do under any circumstance: Alter herself for some dude. Even though we assembled here may or may not be that "some dude." If that happens, then all those who think that "Jack needs the magical penis to fix her" have won, and they were right all along.

And if you really want a confirmation of your impact on her? She'll continue to be reasonably civil towards you. Never forget that this is Jack we're talking about, and we take what we can get.

I wrote and rewrote a couple versions of a post, but in the end, it was pretty much saying all the stuff that was said here.  I'm reminded of Persona 4 (yeah, I played a JRPG; I'm ashamed), where there's a female character you can get closer to, who spends most of the game dressing and acting like a boy.  If you make a comment to her that, "I wouldn't mind seeing you look more like a girl," she ends up dressing in a schoolgirl uniform for you.  I had liked the whole storyline up to that point, but seeing that kinda gave me a bad taste in my mouth.

If Jack grew out her hair, I wouldn't mind it, just as long as it came out of a mindset of, "Hey, think I'll let my hair get long again.  If Shepard doesn't like it, whatever, it's my personal style and I'll do what I want."  But if I see a scene in ME3 where Jack goes, "So... um... do you like it, Shepard?  Maybe a different color?" then I'm coming for the BioWare devs with a M-920 Cain.  

[V-rex]

Hey, already posted this on the comic strip thread but I thought you guys might like it:







Sorry if this one has been used already.

[royceclemens]

What I'm curious about is whether Undertone's understandable and completely reasonable impulse extends just to hair, or could it be something else? How about this?

The N7 tattoo.

If you romanced her she shows you that she got the N7 tattoo somewhere on her person that wasn't previously exposed. Like on her ankle or something. That should tell you plenty about what Shepard means to her. Her body is her autobiography written in code, every shattered hope, every angry misdeed, every great loss and minor triumph. It would be a hell of a lot more organic to her character to show him the tattoo than growing out hair because she's magically normal now that she has a boyfriend.

It hits all the hallmarks of Undertone's concerns without breaking the character. This I would be able to endorse and if you, Undertone, are true to the intent you've laid out, then you'd be able to endorse it as well.

Modifié par royceclemens, 08 décembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[axl99]

A while ago I drew Jack in several variations of a dress [the "Little Black Dress"] on a whim.
It'd never happen in all seriousness unless Jack were to go undercover at Donovan Hock's party as Shepard's companion that is. She wouldn't be too out of place considering she's a high profile criminal and her mugshot's plastered all over Illium's airborne freeways.



First things first. Jack still has the close-cropped hair. Jack's wearing relatively little.
AND SHE CAN STILL LOOK ATTRACTIVE.

I hope I made my point. That's as close to "girl-ify-ing" Jack as I ever dare to get.

Modifié par axl99, 08 décembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[Errationatus]

I think - and please correct me if I'm wrong here;

...that basically what Undertone is saying is that it's perfectly normal for someone - falling in love, say - to wanna "spruce up" a bit.  You want to look nice for your paramour. 

Would Jack grow her hair out?  Depends if she figures Shepard might like something to run his fingers through.

The "N7" ink seems more likely than hair, however, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility she could - on the off chance romanced - give pretty-ing up a shot.

BUT

It would probably be one of those awkward things she did because she was under the mistaken impression that it meant something to Shepard.  

The reason a lot of Jack fans get pissed at the hair discussion and the call for more of it on her is because fundamentally that call is rather shallow.  How many times have I read, "Ugh, bald chix is ugly!" "She looks like a dude lol!1"  "Give her hair and boobies if you want me to romance her!"  (Well, we don't so shut your pie hole. She deserves better'n you, chucklehead.)

The majority of the objections to Jack are for the most part almost completely superficial.  It's as annoying as hell, and personally I think it's irrelevant.

Here's a shock:  How Jack looks is nothing to do with who Jack is - personally, I'm more interested in who she is and what she may become, rather than how her "look" will morph because I romanced her.  Yeah, the romance is a plus, but a good solid relationship can last a long, long, time - much longer than your looks. 

Best hope there's more there than hair and ink, in that case.

[adriano_c]

royceclemens wrote...

What I'm curious about is whether Undertone's understandable and completely reasonable impulse extends just to hair, or could it be something else?

That's the question, really.

To be honest, from what I've noticed, most of the proponents for the "reflect Jack's internal change...externally!" idea always settle upon one thing - the haircut.

Sure, it might be one of the most readily apparent things you could do, considering her design, but there are plenty of alternatives.

Ones that smack less of being simple mollification for the "Jack is ugly and man-like" gang, at that.

[Undertone]

royceclemens wrote...

What I'm curious about is whether Undertone's understandable and completely reasonable impulse extends just to hair, or could it be something else? How about this?

The N7 tattoo.

If you romanced her she shows you that she got the N7 tattoo somewhere on her person that wasn't previously exposed. Like on her ankle or something. That should tell you plenty about what Shepard means to her. Her body is her autobiography written in code, every shattered hope, every angry misdeed, every great loss and minor triumph. It would be a hell of a lot more organic to her character to show him the tattoo than growing out hair because she's magically normal now that she has a boyfriend.

It hits all the hallmarks of Undertone's concerns without breaking the character. This I would be able to endorse and if you, Undertone, are true to the intent you've laid out, then you'd be able to endorse it as well.

Finally a reasonable post. Thank you. I meant to answer to your earlier post but I didn't have time unfortunately.

Perhaps I should have wrote my thread in the other sub-forum more in-depth rather then the one sentence statement. The thread was done rather spontaneous on a whim hence why it appeared as if I detest Jack and want her to conform.

This isn't about trying to conform Jack. I do understand her intention with her look is to drive people away. But since Shepard is in the picture - this obviously provides new things to ponder about whether she is romanced or not. Having a valuable friend (her first real friend at that) is equally as important as being her lover. I think both would bring about change in the way she rationalized things - she know understand the concept of puting oneself in danger for someone else (Shepard), protecting someone you hold dear.

And yes the hair is naturally the first thing I thought of but it can also be a tattoo related to Shepard or subtle but evident changes in her way of clothing. I am talking about a well-thought out character growth.

Modifié par Undertone, 08 décembre 2010 - 07:39 .

[royceclemens]

I understand your intent and I agree with it to a point. Personally, I think Jack would view anything big like hair or wardrobe changes to indicate inward happiness as a target on her back for fate to take it away from her. If anything has been made abundantly clear to Jack throughout her life, it's that she can't have nice things.



And I wish to thank you for coming to this thread and voicing your opinion, for it has been made clear to me through your view point how big of a pit Jack's writer could fall into. Change her too little and it's like she hasn't changed at all. Change her too much and she's not the same person. Trying to find the happy medium with the added pressure of not making it seem too cheesy or obvious would make many a writer crash under their own weight.

[Hyper Cutter]

BobbyTheI wrote...
I'm reminded of Persona 4 (yeah, I played a JRPG; I'm ashamed), where there's a female character you can get closer to, who spends most of the game dressing and acting like a boy.  If you make a comment to her that, "I wouldn't mind seeing you look more like a girl," she ends up dressing in a schoolgirl uniform for you.  I had liked the whole storyline up to that point, but seeing that kinda gave me a bad taste in my mouth.

That only happens once, on a special occasion...

[Loki330]

About the whole growing-out thing; flipping it around, it's not unheard of people cutting hair when a significant even affects them (or refusing to cut your hair until you get revenge for an event, like Augustus and the annihilation of the 3 legions in the germanic forests) so I can see why Jack growing her hair out is probably the first thing people think of to reflect a large character change. Personally I don't really give a monkeys; Jack is Jack and she always will be.

[Sinapus]

Undertone wrote...
Never have I stated I want Jack with long blond hair, pink dress and no tattoos + manners.

Does Mass Effect have the holographic imager technology similar to what Nightcrawler used in the X-Men comic books? I just thought up a funny scene.

Shepard walks in, sees Jack... with long long hair, a pink dress, and no tattoos.

Jack: Hi sweetie! *best Stepford wife smile*
Shepard:

EDI: Got the image.

Jack: Great. Shut down the imager. *reverts to normal look* The look on your face...

[Loki330]

I could see jack doing that; she strikes me as someone who might have quite a mischevious side to her.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

V-rex wrote...

Hey, already posted this on the comic strip thread but I thought you guys might like it:



Sorry if this one has been used already.

That actually was one of the ones that I found when I had that one unfortuante picture saving incident on devientart. It was definately one of my favorites.

[Epantiras]

Sorry to derail the conversation guys but... do you think that Bioware will release a Jack litho too? Grunt, Thane, Tali, Legion AND Cheerleader have them :-)

[adriano_c]

Wasn't this it?

[Captain Iglo]

probably in a bundle as well...maybe with Garrus.

[Epantiras]

adriano_c wrote...

Wasn't this it?

Uhm... your argument IS valid! She's already in a litho, maybe she won't get a new one

[axl99]

I certainly hope she does. I mean, all the other squaddies barring Garrus had the hyper-realistic litho treatment!

Modifié par axl99, 08 décembre 2010 - 05:03 .

[Gethforceone]

That litho is awesome, I don't really see a need for another.

[Barrendall]

Gethforceone wrote...

That litho is awesome, I don't really see a need for another.

Oh I don't know I'm always open to new art.  

[Epantiras]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

That litho is awesome, I don't really see a need for another.

Oh I don't know I'm always open to new art.  

Litho or not, I'm always open to new art :-)

[Barrendall]

This has been sort of stuck in my head in the last hour or so. Shepard breaking down Jack's walls allowing her to begin to trust again doesn't necessarily mean that things will work out between them. It might end badly and it might not. There aren't many npc's that I can think of that would be potential amours for her.

[Barrendall]

Epantiras wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...

That litho is awesome, I don't really see a need for another.

Oh I don't know I'm always open to new art.  

Litho or not, I'm always open to new art :-)

Wish I could draw 

[royceclemens]

Barrendall111 wrote...

This has been sort of stuck in my head in the last hour or so. Shepard breaking down Jack's walls allowing her to begin to trust again doesn't necessarily mean that things will work out between them. It might end badly and it might not. There aren't many npc's that I can think of that would be potential amours for her.

I've been thinking as such myself.  There have to be more hurdles thrown into ME3.  It's not like we can coast with Jack.  It'd be boring.

The thing is, though, you could say that abou tall the love interests.  But if I had to handicap the likelihood of the LI most likely to have an unhappy ending to their relationship storyline, Tali would be in the lead.  Not knocking the character, mind you, or wishing her fans any undue ills.  But that's how I see it.

In fact, I'd handicap Jack as one of the more likely to have a happy ending.  Again, that's just me.

[Collider]

Here's a question. Do you think Jack's background was over the top?