20813 réponses à ce sujet

[adriano_c]

Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Molly from Neuromancer

Great character, that.

[Bourne Endeavor]

@Crunchy
Indeed, I have often pondered that very thought myself. She is initial portrayed as an immense borderline god mode character, and upon acquiring her, she barely ranks above Tali and Kasumi on the defensive side with little to compensate. Personally, I would abandon Warp Ammo in favor of a Biotic Punch not unlike the one she uses in cutscene. Consider it an exaggerated throw fused with a shotgun. The punch pushes the enemy forward and upon mastery can launch a single enemy flying. The damage could potentially be scaled to only marginal hold superiority to Throw and completely outclassed by a traditional shotgun blast but with the added bonus of breaking through protection. The more protection an enemy possesses, the weaker the overall damage.

To me this would reinforce the "glass cannon" concept that had seemingly been the original design intention. Enough power to be partially thought overpowered yet incapable of extended firefights. Coincidently, Kasumi adheres to this instead as Shadow Strike is broken but she is not about to survive for more than a few seconds.

Warp Ammo can be tossed on Thane, whose bonus skill is more or less worthless anyhow.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 18 décembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Epantiras]

Even if I agree that Jack is a "glass cannon" and may not be very usefu in combat, especially compared to Miranda who i really designed to be the best support squad mate ever, I believe that most people hate Jack because they don't like her as a character (shaved head, attitude, blah blah blah).

[Loki330]

I always found Jack quite useful myself. Then again I've modded my game so that powers aren't randomly stopped by armour, which makes absolutely no sense in any shape, way, or form.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Epantiras wrote...



Even if I agree that Jack is a "glass cannon" and may not be very usefu in combat, especially compared to Miranda who i really designed to be the best support squad mate ever, I believe that most people hate Jack because they don't like her as a character (shaved head, attitude, blah blah blah).

I like Miranda quite a bit, but my god they could not of said "YOU SHOULD USE THIS CHARACTER!" any more than if they just forced her into your party the entire game. Unfortunately, Jack does fall into the "she's mean, no like" category. Bioware even conceded they imagined her character would be controversial with the fanbase. Personally, I found it intriguing and her romance is easily the most in-depth and rewarding in the series.



I must admit though, there are a number of pictures with Jack having hair that are indeed impressive.

[axl99]

Jack's abilities go a long way during the easy and normal modes, but the higher up you go, all that extra enemy protection pretty much tempts you to swap her out for someone else.



Which pretty much sums up the idea that there are gameplay balancing issues that still need to be addressed for every character. Another thing I've noticed is that while you can micromanage squaddie abilities in combat to your favour, the squaddies themselves never really "work" together. They're all loose cannons, barring the loyalty factor.



They're all loyal to Shepard, but none of them are really loyal to each other without their favourite commander on the citadel.



So imagine that each character was specifically coded to actually collaborate with other teammates in combat, the more they get along, the better they work together [although this can vary on the type of relationship]. They can then fuse their abilities to execute new ones for offensive/defensive purposes.



We kinda get that out of Jack and Grunt, Tali and Legion - depending on how we choose to rotate our squaddies to suit combat situations.



There's already a system in place where a squaddie will tell you where certain enemies are gonna pop up on the playing field [in areas that aren't scripted]. Maybe in ME3 they can take it a step further.



I'd love to see Jack's biotic bubble and the use of charge put to some good use. Or if she could use pull on environmental objects - like a ceiling - to put the drop on enemies from far away.



Open combat is something that could be suited for certain characters, but little things like guerilla warfare or basic infiltration could be suited to others. The collector mission was an interesting example of spreading out your forces to complete tasks, although you never really get to see them do their thing.

[Loki330]

Love the modified avatar axl99. I am now imagining Jack in a santa outfit. (Tempting design optional! )

[Epantiras]

axl99 wrote...

Jack's abilities go a long way during the easy and normal modes, but the higher up you go, all that extra enemy protection pretty much tempts you to swap her out for someone else.

Which pretty much sums up the idea that there are gameplay balancing issues that still need to be addressed for every character. Another thing I've noticed is that while you can micromanage squaddie abilities in combat to your favour, the squaddies themselves never really "work" together. They're all loose cannons, barring the loyalty factor.

That's why I play only on normal mode. Making enemies tougher to kill is not fun, it's tedious and frustrating. And it makes some squadmates nearly useless :-(
I agree with you, those game modes show the gameplay balancing issues of ME2. Hopefully Bioware will fix them - they seem to be quite open to fan feedback when it comes to combat mechanics.

The "working togheter" idea is awesome... it would be cool to see that in ME3. You can acheive something similar in DA: O with tactics, but I doubt that the average Mass Effect player will sit down and go through lists of "if X happens, do Y".
I assume that ME2 squadmates have some kind of scripted behaviour, for example using a certain power on enemies who have a certain protection - but I doubt they are scripted to use power combos (for example, warp+any biotic power or concussive shots on floating enemies).

[adriano_c]

axl99 wrote...

So imagine that each character was specifically coded to actually collaborate with other teammates in combat, the more they get along, the better they work together [although this can vary on the type of relationship]. They can then fuse their abilities to execute new ones for offensive/defensive purposes.

Considering Bioware's failure to include any sort of NPC interaction whatsoever, I'd even settle for vocal acknowledgements (during combat) of one another at this point...i.e., Jacob says "You're in my L.O.S. Jack! Move!" or something along those lines.

Either way, that'd be cool. A "familiarity" bar between the various squad members that increases the more they're used in tandem, raising their effectiveness in the process. Too bad ME's combat is so simplistic.

[adriano_c]

Epantiras wrote...

I doubt that the average Mass Effect player will sit down and go through lists of "if X happens, do Y".

The tactics setup is one of the few good things about DA.

[Epantiras]

adriano_c wrote...
Considering Bioware's failure to include any sort of NPC interaction whatsoever, I'd even settle for vocal acknowledgements (during combat) of one another at this point...i.e., Jacob says "You're in my L.O.S. Jack! Move!" or something along those lines.

I remember squadmates were (are?) supposed to make comments on the death of other squadmates. I'm not sure if this feature is still in the game or if it has been cut, I've never heard it in-game but I know the files are there.
Someone analyzed Jack's comment something like 100 pages ago on this thread... like "the assassin has been assassinated" said about Thane and "who's the biotic b*tch now?" said about... Samara? Miranda?

[Loki330]

I think it was ultimately purged, which is a shame. As I understand ME2 narrowly squeaked by on 2 discs for the Xbox. I bring this up because apparently MS start charging big-time royalties once it hits the 3+ for DVD's... maybe alot got the axe because of it. A scripting system would be handy though, allowing you to set up the Pull+Throw/Warp/Concussive shot combos.



For something different: if you could (which you can with the PC IIRC) change Jack's powers ingame, what would you change them to? I double I'd change much myself. Shockwave's great for flushing things out of cover and Pull's great for shutdown and setting up helpless targets.

[adriano_c]

Wouldn't really make sense to "cut it down" if it still remains on the disc, no?



I'd swap warp ammo with biotic charge, if anything. The same power as whatever that NPC boss had from the last DLC. From what I can tell, it functions exactly like shadow strike, so it shouldn't be a problem to put in or whatever.

[Loki330]

As someone who's done some modding for games, I assure you that it can be much easier to simply remove the triggers for things than remove them entirely. That can create all sorts of weird hissy fits and sulky-pouts from games for no obvious reasons. Besides, it depends on what else is being cut-if removing the sounds doesn't make enough room for extra content then... yeah. Why bother removing the sounds?



And yes, that was a biotic charge. There was a few moments pause from me the first time I was playing that as my 'main' femshep before I went '...Oh. Wait. *I* can do that too!' Don't think it would really work for an NPC though. If I had to ditch the biotic ammo, I'm probably go for Warp myself.

[adriano_c]

Don't see why it wouldn't work.



Kasumi does the same thing now, essentially, albeit with a different visual style.



A --> B --> hit opponent --> A.



Seemingly bypasses obstacles like crates or cover (as the NPC's charge), too, so no pathing issues.

[MHRazer]

Loki330 wrote...
For something different: if you could (which you can with the PC IIRC) change Jack's powers ingame, what would you change them to? I double I'd change much myself. Shockwave's great for flushing things out of cover and Pull's great for shutdown and setting up helpless targets.

My reverse-charge to a biotic punch idea. Rip the enemy towards you at charge-speeds, then biotic punch them forward into shotgun range when they reach you. It would work on so many levels.

[Epantiras]

MHRazer wrote...

Loki330 wrote...
For something different: if you could (which you can with the PC IIRC) change Jack's powers ingame, what would you change them to? I double I'd change much myself. Shockwave's great for flushing things out of cover and Pull's great for shutdown and setting up helpless targets.

My reverse-charge to a biotic punch idea. Rip the enemy towards you at charge-speeds, then biotic punch them forward into shotgun range when they reach you. It would work on so many levels.

In terms of gameplay, what Jack really lacks is a good protection-stripping skill: forget warp ammo, since she does not have it from the beginning! I mean something like warp. On the other hand, in terms of roleplaying, protection-stripping skill are for cheerleaders and p*ssies like Shepard: Jack is a living weapon who destroys everything that gets in her way! So my vote goes to the biotic punch

Grunt can charge enemies (it's a pleasure to see him charge husks and tear them into pieces) so I think it's quite possible to make Jack punch enemies in-game.

[LordHelfort]

Jacks pretty useful whenever a level happens to be cramped. I think Jack suffered not from cutscene powers issue but mostly from the brute nerfing Adepts underwent in the second game (necessary, but a bit overdone).

[Epantiras]

A crazy thought just came into my mind

Epantiras wrote...
Grunt can charge enemies (it's a pleasure to see him charge husks and tear them into pieces) so I think it's quite possible to make Jack punch enemies in-game.

is it possbile to mod Jack into doing Grunt's charge? That would be beyond awesome.

And yes, I've just quoted myself. I can be that narcissistic.

[adriano_c]

I'm sure it's possible. How it's done? No idea.

[LordHelfort]

Eh, given your art and story work for Jack, I dont think anyone will call you on it.

I think if you simply replaced Grunt with Jack (like they do to make weird Tali-Legion romance scenes) youd get what your looking for.

Modifié par LordHelfort, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:45 .

[Loki330]

Animations would be almost certainly be a trainwreck though

[SlottsMachine]

Does anyone feel that the geth shotgun has significantly increased Jack's usefulness on harder difficulties?

[adriano_c]

Yeah, every shotgun user got a major upgrade with that.