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[android654]

Mondo47 wrote...

I leave for five minutes and you go all pyramidal on me! Honestly!

Just to comment very briefly on the one element that spoke loudest to me in the past few pages - re. the pacing of Jack's sudden turnaround from f*ck you, f*ck Cerberus and f*ck your grandma too to please cuddle me - I personally attribute it to one thing (two if you include the almighty be-all-end-all fact that the game can only be so long so pacing has to suffer somewhat and it's the romances that suffer most - deal with it, smoochin' ain't what the game's about )... Mortality.

Jack knows all about mortality - it's taken away the few things she's cared about (albeit discovered caring for them postpartum). Everything for the characters - if not for us the players - says that the trip through the Omega 4 is not something they'll return from. This is it; the sands of the hourglass are running out. A romanced Jack has come to understand all that discomfort and weakness she feels around Shep is not a bad thing - it's just part of her she's felt the need to supress constantly to keep herself alive. Now big bad Mr Death is knocking on the door, and not even her consummate-survivor attitude can get her out of this. She's seen what the Collectors and the Reapers can do; Jack is not so arrogant or so dumb that she can't appreciate that she's nothing to their might... she's one woman, and these monsters devour whole civilisations. She's a grain of sand on a beach and the tide is coming in fast. No matter how tough she makes herself, she is gonna be moved right off that beach - whoosh. Game over. And as for her little rant about death being an on/off switch, I do not buy that for a second. That's another bit of Jack's front. Life means a lot to her (if it didn't, considering what she's been through she'd probably be dead already either through too many risks or actually just taking things into her own hands and killing herself instead of giving others the chance to end it for her through her actions), and it means as much to others.

Last time she had an emotional investment in someone, she missed her chance to voice it. Now, with the clock ticking, she has a chance to do something she in all honesty she probably throught about last time... I can't see Jack letting her facade get in the way of getting back in touch with that part of her she's kept so tightly wrapped for so long. Sure, Jack's tough, mean, superpowered to all hell and a survivor to the nth degree, but she's always been that fragile, feeling woman inside; one capable of love and allowing herself to be loved. She just hid it away from people that might take advantage, use it or abuse it. Time's running out, though. So she bites the bullet and takes a chance on showing who she's always been inside because she really believes that based on all she's been through in all her life, and everything she's seen while travelling on the Normandy, it's all about to come to an end. So the breaks come off and she risks it all - nothing much to lose either way, as she's going to be dead in a few hours.

I like to think that's why it's so sudden - it's just her time to let it all come out (and it marks anyone that ditches her at that point doubly evil and unworthy of human affection). And hey, it's better than it being because BioWare had to finish the game sometime

You know, I wanted to say something similar, but I didn't articulate it the right way. It's great insight to the character.

Modifié par android654, 28 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[android654]

yorkj86 wrote...

Someone was worrying that voice-work for Courtenay Taylor for ME3 wasn't listed on her IMDB page. They concluded that, because of this, Jack won't be in ME3. Recently, though, Tricia Helfer, EDI's voice-actress, said that she had started recording lines for her character, for ME3. She's not credited for this on her IMDB page, though. I'm not quite so worried. Yet.

Hale and Meer are the only ones listed as being part of the ME3 cast.

I'm trying to keep positive about Jack in ME3 --as she would be one of the major reasons to return to the game-- but a few other things are pissing me off about what we know about the production thus far. Then again we don't know much.

Typically how soon before a release title do we find out about cast lineups?

[pillbox joe]

i wish there were an option to allow jack to kill miranda jack hate miranda

[zewuok]

Recently I had a chat with my friend about possibility of having too many squaddies in ME3 (more than a Dirty Dozen, when you combine both previous games) and BioWare killing off some of them randomly/based on popularity. We're sure that Jack will be in ME3, because she's one of the few squaddies you have to recruit no matter what and she's a LI. From ME you'll be able to recruit VS and Tali, as she's vas Normandy now. From the first bunch of dossiers only Grunt is disposable, 'cause you can leave him in the tank. Kasumi and Zaeed are optional and you can send Legion to TIM. So you'll have Cerberus Couple, Jack, Mordin, Tali, Garrus and VS on board. We haven't tested if it's possible not to recruit Samara/Morinth and Thane, but even if you have to get them you'll end up with 9 squaddies, which is acceptable, so the devs don't have to kill our lovely girl to reduce the numbers of Shep's entourage.
Explanatory: we though of this brilliant "Jack-will-be-in-ME3" idea while imbibing ungodly amounts of alcoholic beverages so it may have few gaps here and there.

[Mondo47]

Well, since they've confirmed that it's a rally-the-forces situation for Shep in the final episode, I think my original idea of "farm off the team where they're the most use" still holds water - Legion can go back to the rest of the collective and prepare them for fighting alongside the Creators, for whom Tali might either become a potential admiral (based on flavour dialogue) or simply an advocate for teaming up with the Geth.

The Virmire Survivor could take a place in Earth's forces (though this potentially marginalizes their appearance more, so I expect them to crop up either as a familiar face that brings Shep in for buddying up with Cerberus in the "court-martial" situation, or encountered on Earth as they fight the Reapers head-on in the "just like old times" situation). Jacob could do this too potentially though his "old connections."

Grunt could take Wrex's place after the silly old bugger gets himself killed in some insane last-stand (or his brother if you were dumb enough to kill someone as awesome as the Big W). Garrus could go back to the turian millitary, though he's not a good turian, so it's a hard sell. Mordin could head back to the salarian homeworld and provide intel for them. Liara could do some good either as the Shadow Broker only can, or she could duck out to go back to her own people for the duration - either works. Samara could do this too possibly, though if you saved Morinth that has to be one hell of a hard sell, credibility-wise.

As for anyone else, their connections are a little too small or personal to farm them off the team to do good elsewhere in an all-out war - Miranda's got nowhere to really go to thanks to burnt bridges with TIM and her daddy, Joker flies the ship - that's who he is (same deal for Chakwas), EDI can't really leave, Zaeed might know a lot of mercs but I doubt he could raise an army of them, Kasumi works generally solo so there's no-one else to bring to the table, Thane has a network but is on borrowed time on one hand and works pretty much alone on the other, and Jack... she might have met a few colourful characters on her travels, but she flies solo too pretty much.

Basically, there are enough ways to trim the team down within a potential storyline without killing anyone - just send them where they can do the most good. If a reason seems too tenuous, they can stay, if it holds water, send them off to fetch the Riders of Rohan in time for the big finish. Some of the cast though just don't have enough connections out there in space to bring anything to the table in this scenario. So... unless Jack was secretly raised by the rachni, farming her off seems very unlikely to me... all good news for us if this idea holds water

[android654]

Mondo47 wrote...

Well, since they've confirmed that it's a rally-the-forces situation for Shep in the final episode, I think my original idea of "farm off the team where they're the most use" still holds water - Legion can go back to the rest of the collective and prepare them for fighting alongside the Creators, for whom Tali might either become a potential admiral (based on flavour dialogue) or simply an advocate for teaming up with the Geth.

The Virmire Survivor could take a place in Earth's forces (though this potentially marginalizes their appearance more, so I expect them to crop up either as a familiar face that brings Shep in for buddying up with Cerberus in the "court-martial" situation, or encountered on Earth as they fight the Reapers head-on in the "just like old times" situation). Jacob could do this too potentially though his "old connections."

Grunt could take Wrex's place after the silly old bugger gets himself killed in some insane last-stand (or his brother if you were dumb enough to kill someone as awesome as the Big W). Garrus could go back to the turian millitary, though he's not a good turian, so it's a hard sell. Mordin could head back to the salarian homeworld and provide intel for them. Liara could do some good either as the Shadow Broker only can, or she could duck out to go back to her own people for the duration - either works. Samara could do this too possibly, though if you saved Morinth that has to be one hell of a hard sell, credibility-wise.

As for anyone else, their connections are a little too small or personal to farm them off the team to do good elsewhere in an all-out war - Miranda's got nowhere to really go to thanks to burnt bridges with TIM and her daddy, Joker flies the ship - that's who he is (same deal for Chakwas), EDI can't really leave, Zaeed might know a lot of mercs but I doubt he could raise an army of them, Kasumi works generally solo so there's no-one else to bring to the table, Thane has a network but is on borrowed time on one hand and works pretty much alone on the other, and Jack... she might have met a few colourful characters on her travels, but she flies solo too pretty much.

Basically, there are enough ways to trim the team down within a potential storyline without killing anyone - just send them where they can do the most good. If a reason seems too tenuous, they can stay, if it holds water, send them off to fetch the Riders of Rohan in time for the big finish. Some of the cast though just don't have enough connections out there in space to bring anything to the table in this scenario. So... unless Jack was secretly raised by the rachni, farming her off seems very unlikely to me... all good news for us if this idea holds water

Makes most sense. I don't see Garrus convincing the Turian Military to help, he isn't a "good Turian." If you get Zaeed to complete his loyalty mission, he could lead The Blue Suns to assist in the final fight. Wouldn't Thane also have ties to other assassin's? In a large scale war, I imagine a small team of drell assassins could do sabotage missions. Mordin could also rally STG, but I assume their usefulness would be the same as drell assassins.

As for the others... Makes sense, and makes room for new members.

[zewuok]

Nyoka wrote...
EDIT: Yeah, I should probably read pages 30, 90, 150, 220, 380, 500, 530, and a few more to see people discussing the matter multiple times. It sucks to be a newbie.

People here won't be like "stfu u n00b" if you bring already discussed topic up. I've been reading this thread for a good while now (I'm on page 358, yay to me) and it never happened to anybody even when they were asking probably the most popular question: "So how old you think Jack is?".

Modifié par zewuok, 29 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[adriano_c]

Spoiler (I guess)...

After that lame DLC, I suppose Jack'll be busting Shepard out of jail as some figured long ago.

[zewuok]

Ah, so The Arrival didn't live up to the hype? Good news to me, 'cause this way I don't have to spend cash from my Upgrade-Old-Machine Fund.

And just to add to the 'rallying forces in ME3' posts- if BioWare makes "Dragon Age in Space" battle ending, I sure hope Shep won't survive it or at least ends up indoctrinated and gets promptly shot by his/her LI. You can roll the credits now, BioWare.

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

Spoiler (I guess)...

After that lame DLC, I suppose Jack'll be busting Shepard out of jail as some figured long ago.

*does the "I Called It!" dance*

zewuok wrote...

And just to add to the 'rallying forces in ME3' posts- if BioWare makes "Dragon Age in Space" battle ending, I sure hope Shep won't survive it or at least ends up indoctrinated and gets promptly shot by his/her LI. You can roll the credits now, BioWare.

And if they do that I'll never buy another BioWare title again. Straight up. If I get another noble sacrifice forced on me again, I'm going to send the BioBods the entire collection of Spot books: yes, they're made of cardboard and have about eight pages each, but at least they can manage different f*cking endings and they're written for toddlers. Learn to modify a new story or be the laughingstock of software houses - consider yourself officially warned...

zewuok wrote...

Nyoka wrote...
EDIT: Yeah, I should probably read pages 30, 90, 150, 220, 380, 500, 530, and a few more to see people discussing the matter multiple times. It sucks to be a newbie.

People here won't be like "stfu u n00b" if you bring already discussed topic up. I've been reading this thread for a good while now (I'm on page 358, yay to me) and it never happened to anybody even when they were asking probably the most popular question: "So how old you think Jack is?".{smilie}

We save the stfu n00bs for the always popular "Wouldn't Jack look better with hair?" comments

Modifié par Mondo47, 29 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[Batlass8]

Mondo47 wrote...

And if they do that I'll never buy another BioWare title again. Straight up. If I get another noble sacrifice forced on me again, I'm going to send the BioBods the entire collection of Spot books: yes, they're made of cardboard and have about eight pages each, but at least they can manage different f*cking endings and they're written for toddlers. Learn to modify a new story or be the laughingstock of software houses - consider yourself officially warned...

Aw, I love Spot!  Um... and Jack!  Look at how on-topic I am!  Uh....  Here!  Have some Jack and stop judging me!

[royceclemens]

Mondo47 wrote...

And if they do that I'll never buy another BioWare title again. Straight up. If I get another noble sacrifice forced on me again, I'm going to send the BioBods the entire collection of Spot books: yes, they're made of cardboard and have about eight pages each, but at least they can manage different f*cking endings and they're written for toddlers. Learn to modify a new story or be the laughingstock of software houses - consider yourself officially warned...

I don't think we have anything to worry about.  It's not like Mass Effect is the kind of franchise that doesn't reward idealism.  

I think it's all gonna depend on how many helium deposits you found in the first game.  I think that's gonna be the huge overarching decision.  If you didn't find at least four, then Jack dies of neural degradation, Ashley and Kaidan don't show up, Tali dies of gout, Liara has freaky circus sex with Feron and Niftu Cal defeats the Reapers by farting before ME3 even starts.  Then you have to spend the entire game filing for unemployment.

At least that's my theory, anyway.  I've been wrong before. 

Modifié par royceclemens, 29 mars 2011 - 11:16 .

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

And if they do that I'll never buy another BioWare title again. Straight up. If I get another noble sacrifice forced on me again, I'm going to send the BioBods the entire collection of Spot books: yes, they're made of cardboard and have about eight pages each, but at least they can manage different f*cking endings and they're written for toddlers. Learn to modify a new story or be the laughingstock of software houses - consider yourself officially warned...

I don't think we have anything to worry about.  It's not like Mass Effect is the kind of franchise that doesn't reward idealism.  
 

Thing is, that ending in DA:O has stopped me buying any of the DLC, and it makes me really not want to bother with DA2 in all honesty. If they just make ME3 into a lazy shooter-version of DA:O... I'll seriously wonder why I bothered. I don't demand a happy ending, I don't demand Shep and Jack living happily ever after, I don't even demand everyone lives. I just demand not to walk through fire to have it telegraphed to me twenty minutes before the credits roll that everything I've been though is to see a nice memorial statue and read some epilogues...

All I'm saying is, if I'd seen where the end of Monsters was going more than twenty seconds before it hit me, I'd have walked out and gone to watch some other movie. I have faith in BioWare, I just don't want to see it being misplaced so soon after DA:O.

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

You slew the archdemon and saved Fereldin from the blight.  That's more than just getting a statue and reading epilogues.

Didn't feel like I'd saved jack to me other than a whining brat, a self-absorbed witch and Puss in Boots... but I guess it's a horses-for-courses thing. Everything went south for me after carving Loghain's head off - that was my final moment of satisfaction <_<

I said Jack - we're still on topic

Modifié par Mondo47, 30 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[android654]

adriano_c wrote...

Spoiler (I guess)...

After that lame DLC, I suppose Jack'll be busting Shepard out of jail as some figured long ago.

How fitting that she'll get Shep out of jail this time.

zewuok wrote...
least ends up indoctrinated and gets promptly shot by his/her LI. You can roll the credits now, BioWare.

Definitely prefer that one. would be even better if you're paragon and get indoctrinated, and assist in the destruction of man, slaughtering millions while leading a fleet of reaper controlled abominations. Only to have Jack pull your body apart atom by atom, leaving you roaring a blood curdling scream of pain, in order to save you... She's sweet like that.

zewuok wrote...

We save the stfu n00bs for the always popular "Wouldn't Jack look better with hair?" comments

<3 women with short hair.

[smilie]http://worldhairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/04a0e7a9e060dd8e4912c935dcc6dd32.jpg[/smilie]

Modifié par android654, 30 mars 2011 - 12:12 .

[axl99]

Jack should have her own cult?

OH TEH IRONY.

[android654]

I thought we were that cult.

Modifié par android654, 30 mars 2011 - 03:43 .

[royceclemens]

Sundown Native wrote...

Well, I liked the DLC. Whatever hype it had was unknown to me, and I learned to appreciate what little things they squeeze out. You guys can keep your money if you want to, but eh. Every little bit counts, for me.

...

And in terms of Dragon Age, both games were good. I've no problems with the stories; only the gameplay. And that got fixed for me, in DA2.

I'm content. Others may not be, but I damn sure am.

You are aware that admitting to liking anything BioWare on the BioWare forums is like pulling a toy gun on a cop, right?

I liked 'em both too, though.  I'm particularly happy with Arrival.   More natural cover, the enemies seem to have gotten smarter and more gameplay variety (like stealth and LOKI possession).  If the gameplay for ME3 is like this, then I'm gonna have to play it wearing diapers.

Now as for the impending trial, I think the VS is gonna be the one to bust Shep out of jail... But a look of concern from Jack in the crowd as Shepard is led out the door in chains?  That's something I can get behind.