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[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

She's not the center of her own universe.

That's why I love Uncle Royce - he sees the little things. Joining pirates, joining cultists, breaking every law you care to mention, no fixed sexual preference (at least pre-Shep - because in space - if not in a gritty fantasy universe - no-one can be anything other than straight), all this searching for answers, identity, a reason why everything had to be so massively f*cked up for her... Jack's a river looking for an ocean. A place to just be.

Chakwas's "place to stop" metaphore works here, because it's not Shep's uber-manliness, classic jawline, Mills and Boon "stallionlike manhood" (oh, how I've wanted to say something that cackle-inducing and bad-lit-florid about Shepard ) or magical nanotech power of twoo wuv way I mean ray. It's what he represents - plain and simple acceptance for who Jack is. I know some people really chafe against the idea of Jack actually expressing love because it somehow equates to being less badass or weak or diluting her frosty edge, but it's something she really must be capable of. She's taken a lot of chances on people and been burned, but not stopped doing it - she's not found her point-of-no-return yet. Nor must it make one loose their teeth - did Beatrice Kiddo (since she got a mention earlier) somehow forget the five-point-palm-exploding-heart technique because she fell in love with some regular joe? Noooo. Forgot nothing. Even if Bill hadn't tried to off her, she'd never have forgotten that sh*t. And if love makes you weak somehow... sheesh. Most of our species' greatest stories would fall flat on their asses. Love tends to make one hell of a motivation to drama and explosive violence. Someone who cares about nothing would probably shrug at the arrival of the Reapers and just bugger off into deep space to find a quiet planet to live out the rest of their days on a'la Spider's mountain... but Spider goes back to the City because he cares (ok, and he's being sued) - and he's about the most objectionable cuss I can think of!

Maybe it's because Liara and Tali just dissolve into so much cotton candy in their expression of affection? Jacob turns from a standup guy into a fumbling jackass. Thane suddenly loses his acceptance of mortality and blubbers. Legion tells poor lies (I stand by my assumption that "No data available" is geth for "I love you" ). Everyone comes unravelled around Shep if they want to get in his/her undies. I tend to put that down to their characters - Liara being inexperienced and naive, same for Tali, Jacob being awestruck, Thane being a cliche (sorry), so on and so forth. Just because Jack sheds a few tears and has a snuggle doesn't mean she's going to turn into a Jane Austen heroine anytime soon.

Jack will remain her abraisive, confrontational, rude and deadly self despite a liking for cuddles. She might be looking for the missing bits of her puzzle (and yes, another person to care about can be one of those pieces) but it by no means makes her needy. Being an angry square peg in a universe of round holes isn't all Jack is. Having a hole she fits in won't remove all those tattoos, all those scars or all that power. It'll just make her that bit more complete. And open up the possibility of evolution (as opposed to stagnation in a rinse-and-repeat cycle of swearing and kicking ass and inevitable transformation into Jason Statham )... now that's gotta be the next big adventure - what Jack does next.

[Epantiras]

Speaking of the Jack Cult, who will lead boarding parties and handle executions? ;-)

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Shepard is the center of the ME universe.  Some chafe at the idea that Shepard conquers all when it comes to Jack, but it's actually par for the course considering that everything revolves around Shepard the indestructible hero.  Everything else is rescinded to him.  There isn’t much give and take, it’s mostly just take, whether it be romances or practically every other aspect of the story/game.

As far as the series goes, true, but I don't really buy into that being the way things have to be. Sure, Shep's the hero: by proxy the universe turns on his fulcrum. It doesn't mean that the universe's contents (the poeple, places, whatever) have to on top of that. It's better if they don't... I mean, how much fun is a good guy (or bad guy for that matter) who is totally brilliant at everything all the time? In my book, the best kind of writing does not make the hero the be-all-end-all; making other characters deeper, more interesting, more capable, so on and so forth, throw the hero's shortfallings and superlatives into relief. Not many of the crew do that in all honesty, but the odd thing is that most of those that do are characters that are either secondary window-dressing or ones that have depths some people miss because you have to really look to see them behind the obvious... in particular Joker (less than physically perfect yet a more capable pilot than Shep every could be), Chakwas (could save more lives doing less than Shep does), Legion (more than he appears, counterpoints Shep's lack of vision re. the universe at large), and yes, Jack (does not fall in line easily, openly defies Shep, and he could never kill people just by staring hard ), all do and say things, or perform actions in the course of the story that can shine a light on Shepard in a way that not only makes them greater than the second-fiddles they'd seem to be, but also makes him/her more than just another Gordon Freeman; tootling towards victory in near or total silence just because YOU are making the story unfold by shoving buttons.

It's why Sancho Panza is more interesting than Don Quixote, Moonglum is deeper than Elric, so on and so forth... without the interesting people Mass Effect would be... well... Gears of War

[spirosz]

Hey guys, I made another acoustic song for Jack.  This one is basically her getting the courage to go up and see Shepard before heading through the Omega relay.  So the cabin scene

[Mondo47]

spiros9110 wrote...

Hey guys, I made another acoustic song for Jack.  This one is basically her getting the courage to go up and see Shepard before heading through the Omega relay.  So the cabin scene

Nice

I can see that sitting nicely over my little scene of Shep and Jack on the beach... tide rolling in... little bit of a snuggle going on...

Sue me - I like mushy sh*t

[Mondo47]

Gears was reasonably fun to play I guess. What I didn't care for was the overly-steroided-out design of the central characters (seriously, they were as f*ckin' ugly as the aliens), the aliens weren't interesting visually (seen it all before) or from a story-perspective, and the whole overarching story was, lets be honest, really bloody shallow. Much like other shooty games I've enjoyed for things other than a good storyline - Far Cry, Crysis, Portal, Resident Evil, etc.

I think you think I'm being meaner than I am. The reason why I take the ****** out of it is the fact, much like the Halo series, masses of people seem to love it, but I can't see the attraction beyond it being a fun way to kill half an hour. I'd have poked fun at Halo, but that didn't have a shallow story with shallow characters, it was just a trainwreck of cliches and attempts to be more grandiose than a movie by Cecil B Demille while lumbering about under a mountain of pointless hype. At least Gears was honest enough to stand up and say "I'm testosterone-driven entertainment and nothing more!" And for that, I'll rib it in a good-humored manner for not pushing all my buttons.

Ok, back onto topic for me, but hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from, Sundown.

[Epantiras]

I think the reason of Shepard being "the less interesting person on the ship" is that he/she can't have a fixed personality like other NPCs because it's the player who choose who Shepard is. The more you force a particular personality on Shepard, the more you take roleplaying freedom away from the player's hands. I still remember ho shocked I was to vitness to some of Shepards' unprompted actions or comments: "nooo! That's NOT what MY Shepard would have done" and so on.

[royceclemens]

Concerning Shepard, I think it's kind of part-and-parcel with a huge ensemble cast. The main character acts as less of a point of interest and more of a catalyst to the rest of the characters. Case in point, Buffy Summers was the least interesting part of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That's not a strike against her, but rather it works in her favor because she sets the other characters in motion, like Willow and Spike.

But given that video games are special case, the question isn't why Shepard isn't developed, but why aren't we developing him/her? JohnnyDollar (whom I seem to be disagreeing with a lot lately) says that there's no give to any relationship Shepard could have with anyone on the Normandy, but I'm sure my main male Shepard Robert would disagree with him.

Robert is pretty much a glorified boy scout. Not indestructable, mind you, just really nice. And he's fallible as stress gets to him (he's the only Shepard of twelve I plan on importing who lost people on the suicide mission and who didn't fire on Kenson).

Robert is romancing Jack (to bring us back on topic, finally). And when does he start the romance? After he gets back from the Normandy crash site, putting the monument on the place that reminds him of the woman he loved, who died on Virmire. He's moving on, finally, and it's his way of asking for Ashley's blessing.

So I don't know, man. Robert Shepard seems to be giving Jack a lot...

[Mondo47]

I know what you mean, Royce... Daniel Shepard cried on Jack more than once - they fit because they're both self-repaired entities trying to get comfortable with someone that might just really understand them. Deacon really does love Tali - even though she has those hideous palps and weird eyes . Liliya doesn't feel half as much for Liara as she does for her... everything's temporary. Adrienne on the other hand, does - and she really does want those blue children.

Shep's our blank canvas, and I think while we might have an outline for this hero of ours, just like you say, it's who we put next to him/her than makes them turn into something special.

[android654]

Epantiras wrote...

Speaking of the Jack Cult, who will lead boarding parties and handle executions? ;-)

I can handle the executions! Not that I'm excited or anything... Just if we're going to be killing hostages, and no one else wants to do it, I'm game.

[royceclemens]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
Too bad Jack doesn't know about it, or did Robert tell her?  That would make for an interesting conversation between the two.

Well, I doubt Jack would sit still and listen to someone else's sob story.  Not a whole lot of them compare to hers.  Nevertheless, are you sure you're grasping the "role-playing" part of the whole "Role Playing Game" concept?  It's unfair to say that there's barely any give, when you're not giving anything.

[Seigmann]

I always thought she'd jump ship on Tuchanka and hook up with Wrex. After all, they both have that psychotic rage thing going. ;-)

[CroGamer002]

I just found out something you guys probably already knew.


Jack's from Eden Prime?!

[Labrev]

theradicalpunk wrote...

I don't know if most bring into light she's a murderer but I don't dig chicks beyond the physical when they kill indiscriminately with justifications that only a killer can swallow.

I dunno, to me that just made it more interesting. As a Spectre, Shepard used to deal with people like Jack by putting them to justice - sometimes violently - but since they're in on the same mission, they have to put differences aside and work together (like many others on the team). While her past is distubring, Shep just shrugs it off. Afterall, she doesn't give nearly as much trouble as expected from a "pyschopath" ex-convict.

From talking to her, I personally don't see her as "bad." Just "young" if you will. Someone who's lived life alone and without love or direction. Yeoman Chambers kinda nailed it: she doesn't understand her motives. She's not forgone though, I think she can be turned away. Fortunately, my Shepard is willing to try it.

[Epantiras]

Sundown Native wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I just found out something you guys probably already knew.


Jack's from Eden Prime?!

Yep. As I recall, quite a few Jackolytes were a little upset about that. I believe the argument was that the colony was getting too much attention.

I wonder if it means that Jack's parents probably died when the geth attacked the colony in ME1.

[CroGamer002]

Epantiras wrote...

Sundown Native wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I just found out something you guys probably already knew.


Jack's from Eden Prime?!

Yep. As I recall, quite a few Jackolytes were a little upset about that. I believe the argument was that the colony was getting too much attention.

I wonder if it means that Jack's parents probably died when the geth attacked the colony in ME1.

Or better yet one of them survived and Jack meets one of the parents.

Would that be awesome or bad idea?

[android654]

Mesina2 wrote...
Or better yet one of them survived and Jack meets one of the parents.

Would that be awesome or bad idea?

Horrible Idea, her parents are superfluous at this point. The geth attack was a few years ago, she's been at teltin her entire life. Even if she saw both of them, her parents wouldn't evoke any kind of emotion, I think.