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[Razorsedge820]

MisterJB wrote...

Razorsedge820 wrote...

@MisterJB

You know what your doing right now makes no sense right? Your defending MIRANDA in the JACK fan thread, that's like going to an animal rights rally wearing a fur coat and gator boots while being drenched with baby seal blood.

A person who pleads for animal rights while wearing a fur coat is an hypocrite. However, one can like both Miranda and Jack, no? 

I really do not want to respond and sound like a hyprocite myself but I can't resist.

My point was someone wearing a fur coat at an animal rights rally is someone who is just begging to be hackled, which is kind of what you are doing. While your defending Miranda in the JACK thread you are making points that are degrading Jack's character, which obviously wont sit well with Jack fans. I never said you cant like Miranda and Jack (which I assume you do) but dont expect Jack fans to stay quit while you are putting HER down in HER thread.

nough said.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 06 mai 2011 - 03:37 .

[lolwut666]

"Miranda absolutely hates being perfect, it's something that has followed her entire life.
And if you are going that way, I can say that there good aspects about Jack's life, like being the most powerful biotic ever."

Before being the most powerful biotic, Jack was a regular girl. And after Teltin, she remained a regular girl in both body and mental capacity, except she has biotic powers. And she is still poor and never had a family.

There are no drawbacks to being perfect and rich besides what the person in question makes up for herself.

"Then Jack was not tortured.
And you are ignoring the meeting impossible demands, one after another, part."

Yes, she was. The Teltin researchers would torture her brutally because they had a theory that pain breaks mental barriers, opening a path for more biotic power.

"Must I remind you that the scientists on Teltin were inflicting the most horrific experiments on the other children so that they wouldn't risk pushing Jack beyond her limits?
So, knowying that and not knowying what Mr.Lawson made Miranda go through, how can you claim that Jack had it worse?"

Anything that resulted in increased biotic power without killing the subject was done to Jack, no matter how painful and traumatizing it was. And she was forced to fight the other kids to the death, and spent every single day of her childhood in a highly hostile environment. She was even raped.

"Miranda had one good thing about her childood, money. Everything else was about as bad as Jack and possibly even worse."

Money and perfection. Like I said before, Miranda sees her perfection as a burden because she wants to.

"So, because Veetor is a fragile flower we should forget that he is a witness? Do you have any idea how many crimes would go unsolved that way?
Veetor was not tortured."

That would only be valid if you didn't know he was a "fragile flower". Veetor was injured and traumatized. "Interrogating" him would be of little benefit, and it would definitely not be good for his health.

"Miranda didn't insist, she suggested. Then, Miranda was not sure at the time if the Quarian were indeed going to fowards Veetor's omni-tool to Cerberus, since there's bad blood between the two groups.
Tali didn't give Veetor's omni-tool, it's data was fowarded from the Flotilla. What if the Quarians went back on their
word?"

Doesn't matter. Once again, you're advocating in favor of "the ends justify the means". And Shepard knows Tali. Questioning Tali's loyalty under these circumstances is an insolence. She should have stayed out of it and let Shepard decide what was best.

"Miranda did not commit those crimes herself now, did she? She joined Cerberus out of desperation and to help humanity and if you talk to her, it becomes obvious that she trusted TIM and was largely unware of Cerberus's darkest side.
Yes, Miranda is a criminal, so is Shepard. But they have good reasons.
Or do you want to lay the blame of everything Cerberus did at Miranda's feet?"

By then she should've known enough about their history. And Miranda admits that she was involved in the creeper, husks and rachni experiments. She was also involved in the attack on the quarian ship.

Well, I don't think I can change your mind, and I'm convinced you can't change mine. If you don't mind, I'll excuse myself from this discussion.

Back to the lighter mood of usual.

[Razorsedge820]

lolwut666 wrote...

Jack is supposed to be a Vanguard, so a power that suplements her gunplay suits her character, IMO. Plus Warp Ammo is supposed to be a very advanced biotic power. Only the most powerful human biotic could master it.

And Jack isn't a bad character. If you have Overload/Incinerate to take down enemies defenses, she can be very useful. No other party member is better at knocking enemies off ledges than she is, because Throw only pushes enemies backwards when cast by the AI, while Shockwave sends them flying all over the place. Pull is always useful.

I always thought Warp ammo was just a weapons mod any non biotic can switch on and shoot, but that's just me.

I agree Jack is a very useful character. I mostly play as a solider so having Jack in my squad playing the role of support oppose to heavy hitter like Grunt/Zaeed is very useful to me. I just take down the enemies defenses and let Jack send them flying.

I just think besides Warp ammo Slam would be the only other available bonus power that would fit her best. Given the option I honestly would not like to see Jack use Slam in ME3, maybe a biotic power sort of like a quake that would send all enemies surrounding Jack within a certain radius flying or knock them unconscious would be great since Jack can die easily if she is crowded.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 06 mai 2011 - 04:00 .

[lolwut666]

The description of Squad Warp Ammo says that it's an advanced power and that it takes an "impressive feat of sustained biotic concentration" to grant its benefits to all party members.

[Razorsedge820]

lolwut666 wrote...

The description of Squad Warp Ammo says that it's an advanced power and that it takes an "impressive feat of sustained biotic concentration" to grant its benefits to all party members.

Huh, never noticed that. I guess Warp ammo isn't as simple as I thought it was. I assumed that warp ammo was just like all the other set it and forget it ammo mods. So Jack has to put in extra work if the entire squad is to get warp ammo, interesting.

[zewuok]

Squad warp ammo is great, I use it every time (usually my choice for the bonus power for Shep), and I read it here before that the biotic has to maintain mass field around every single bullet so that why only the strongest biotics can use it.

@Razorsedge
Yeah, I was thinking about something similar- like a shockwave but circular. It would be great for those annoying husks and we'll probably see even more of them in ME3.<_<

[Errationatus]

Oh, well - so much for that.  Pity, really.  Jack thread for Jack, Miri thread for Miri and one for the issue between the fans that derails neither, hopefully in a rational and civil manner.

Apparently a really bad idea.

*Shrug*

Like Jack would say, "What-the-fvck-ever."

Derail on, kids.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 06 mai 2011 - 05:26 .

[MisterJB]

Ok, I'm not going to start a morals or perfection vs extremely powerful debate since, like you said, we are not going to convince each other. Still, there are a few points I would like to adress.

lolwut666 wrote...
Yes, she was. The Teltin researchers would torture her brutally because they had a theory that pain breaks mental barriers, opening a path for more biotic power.
Anything that resulted in increased biotic power without killing the subject was done to Jack, no matter how painful and traumatizing it was.
 

Has it ocurred to you that Miranda's father migth have done the same to her? We don't know his methods.

She was even raped.

Wasn't she raped only in Purgatory?

That would only be valid if you didn't know he was a "fragile flower". Veetor was injured and traumatized. "Interrogating" him would be of little benefit, and it would definitely not be good for his health.

So, just the act of taking Veetor to a Cerberus facility is already unnaceptable to you?

By then she should've known enough about their history.

Cerberus's Cells act alone, so the only information Miranda would have about the other Cerberus's activities would either come from TIM (who would filter it) or from Alliance's reports, which she would find biased and unreliable.
 

And Miranda admits that she was involved in the creeper, husks and rachni experiments.

She wasn't. When Miranda says "we" she is referring to Cerberus in general.
She learned about the work from those Cells due to the research she did into Shepard's past. Thos Cells were purposelly turning humans into Husks to experiment, Miranda would have never approved of that.

She was also involved in the attack on the quarian ship.

Wait, what? Do you have evidence of that?

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try and link even the Miranda discussion back to Jack somehow, please, so as not to completely derail the thread. thank you.

[android654]

MisterJB wrote...

She was even raped.

Wasn't she raped only in Purgatory?

She makes references it twice, in two different place. I guess if you only get raped at one location, who cares, right?

[zewuok]

lolwut666 wrote this and it's pretty obvious...
Well, I don't think I can change your mind, and I'm convinced you can't change mine. If you don't mind, I'll excuse myself from this discussion.

MisterJB, you won't win the argument here the same as lolwut666 wouldn't win if the discussion had started in Miranda thread.
Just stop derailing this thread, please.

Modifié par zewuok, 06 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[MisterJB]

android654 wrote...
She makes references it twice, in two different place. I guess if you only get raped at one location, who cares, right?

lolwut was associating Jack's rape with the Teltin facility. I was under the impression she had been raped only once in Purgatory and I wanted to clarify it. That's all.

Also, I'm not trying to win anything. Just clarifying some misconceptions.
However, since this is a Jack fan thread and even Staley showed up, I will stop now.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 mai 2011 - 05:00 .

[Goat_Shepard]

lol omg, MisterJB, you are the best Miranda roleplayer I've ever seen. Really, you even use some of her exact words, I ended up reading your post in her voice

When you said Miranda had a harder life than Jack, I nearly fell out of my chair from the laughter. Made my day

To respect the word of Woo, I'll direct my prodding in a more Jack-specific inquiry:

Who honestly thinks those kids at Teltin had it worse than Jack? IMO they were LUCKY to die. Death > torture.

yorkj86 wrote...
Talk about trouble with spoilers, 'cuz there's a new...something...that a certain class gets...that...does something...biotics-related...that is totally Jack's style.

TELL MEEEE!

strive wrote...
I hated how weak she is on Insanity. She is the most powerful human biotic and she got very underwhelming powers IMO. Warp Ammo is powerful and all, but I think she should of had a cooler bonus power. Warp Ammo is just to "passive" for Jack LOL.

Underwhelming, but not "weak" even in comparison with other squaddies. It depends on the class, perhaps, but I breezed through Insanity with Vanguard or Soldier + Jack. She can't take down their defenses, but once me and Garrus do that, it's fish in a barrel. She's integral for my Vanguard to be effective because once I charge I can't Pull, so I teleport across the screen, kill one guy, blast the defense of the other, and when he's about to kill me, Jack Pulls him with a spine-chilling "COME 'ERE!". Rinse and repeat until everything lay dead.

What I don't get is the fact that Samara and Jack don't have Singularity, but Liara does

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 06 mai 2011 - 05:15 .

[MisterJB]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
. Really, you even use some of her exact words, I ended up reading your post in her voice

You're welcome.

[lolwut666]

@Goat_Shepard

I use that tactic as well. Sometimes I replace Pull with Mordin's Cryo. Doesn't look as cool, though.

I like to have Jack along when I play my Sentinel. I strip the enemies defeses, Jack Area Pulls then, and then I hit them with an Area Throw.

Enemies flying everywhere!

Jack is my Sentinel's LI, too. Talk about the power of love. >

[Mondo47]

**snippety-snipping of all the previous back-and-forth-ing**

Wow. I go to work and World War Six breaks out... I thought there'd be room for folk to hold an opinion in both directions, and I thought here of all places people wouldn't make with the personal insults over something as ephemoral as imaginary people. I for one am keeping my opinions to myself from now on - I intensely dislike being openly patronised by people or assumptions being made about myself or anyone else's personality flaws and merits.

And Stan had to get involved too... <_<

Sorry I ever even got involved.

[lolwut666]

@Mondo47

It's not as bad as you think.

I didn't feel offended at any point during the conversation, for example. Can't speak for the others (I hope they didn't either).

[CroGamer002]

Like to share this with you guys.

Jack is one of my favorite characters in Mass Effect, but somehow I killed her 7 times out of my 12 Shepard's( 2 times more then Jacob!) and with my canon I dumped her for Tali.



In my defense she is romance for my 2nd ManShep and I'll do one more romance with my last Shep and I don't have more then 1 romance for any other ME2 LI.

[Goat_Shepard]

Indeed. I'd say the only one who could have possibly been offended was the one who took up an entire pages worth of space with two posts


@lolwut

I'm about to start my ME2 playthrough and I'm considering Sentinel (first time). I'm not supposed to romance Jack but having her in my squad shouldn't break that plan, right?

@Mesina

How in the world did you manage to get her killed more than half the time if she's one of your favorites? lol

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 06 mai 2011 - 05:56 .

[zewuok]

@Mesina
Wow, that's... unexpected I often get Mordin killed (not on purpose, I love that guy) in my playthroughs, but Jack's bit tougher to kill. Did she die during SM or in the cutscene before it?

[naledgeborn]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
I'm about to start my ME2 playthrough and I'm considering Sentinel (first time). I'm not supposed to romance Jack but having her in my squad shouldn't break that plan, right?

For my Sentinel I rolled through with Jack and Mordin. They both play well off of a Sentinel. And Mordins banter on Jacks loyalty is very good. Just a friendly suggestion.

[lolwut666]

All this talk about killing Jack reminds me of my Infiltrator PT, where I tried to get most of the team killed, except Jack and Garrus.

Turns out Morinth, Mordin, Garrus and Grunt survived. Jack got taken by the swarms.

Bah...

Modifié par lolwut666, 06 mai 2011 - 06:47 .

[Confused-Shepard]

As far as powers go, this should have been Jack's moveset.

Shockwave replaced by Charge (Call it Biotic Punch with the animation from the recruitment mission) that works like Shadow Strike. Does damage and throws enemies. Pull replaced by Singularity. Passive & Loyalty power would remain same

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 06 mai 2011 - 06:50 .

[SlottsMachine]

Was playing Fallout New Vegas the other day and had an interesting interaction with one of the random NPC's voiced by Courtney Taylor, she sounded just like Jack.

after entering Mrs. Hostetler's home.

Mrs. Hostetler: "what are you doing here, get out before I blow your f*ucking head off"
Me talking out loud to myself: "Jack what the hell, I'm not here to steal anything, I'm here to help."

[Confused-Shepard]

A question,

Regardless of the reasons or justifications or that fact that she was abused her entire life. It's still true that Jack is or rather was a very dangerous criminal and killed several people both innocent & guilty. So do you think she deserves to be punished or were the atrocities at Teltin, her life after escape and her stint at Purgatory retroactively punishment enough?

That is too say even if she killed someone today, she in turn could have been abused by the gang she was running with.

What would you do if the authorities/Alliance came to arrest her?

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 06 mai 2011 - 07:10 .