I always had a feeling TIM knew what was going on. He might be playing ignorant to save his own hide, though. People start running extra experiments behind his back? "Oh, I was unaware of that.....my hands are clean. But, let's see the results anyway."
This way, when he needs someone like Shep on his side, if they find some "evidence" of Cerberus wrong doings, he can simply say, "they've gone rogue! I didn't authorize that!" *cough, cough*
Into the Bad Girl: Jack Fans
Débuté par
Average Gatsby
, févr. 05 2010 03:24
Retour en haut
#19577
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 12:27
Goat_Shepard
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Indeed. Like jtav said, "When 90% of an organization is rotten, they stop being rogue".Ninjapino wrote...
I always had a feeling TIM knew what was going on. He might be playing ignorant to save his own hide, though. People start running extra experiments behind his back? "Oh, I was unaware of that.....my hands are clean. But, let's see the results anyway."
This way, when he needs someone like Shep on his side, if they find some "evidence" of Cerberus wrong doings, he can simply say, "they've gone rogue! I didn't authorize that!" *cough, cough*
And EDI already confirmed that TIM micromanages an exact number of projects so he can monitor them thoroughly. Incompetence, or feigned ignorance. I say both.
#19578
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 03:38
Vertigo_1
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twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/69424648487579649
"I can say that you'll see most key chars return in some form in #ME3 - and Jack was a key char. But is she alive?"
"I can say that you'll see most key chars return in some form in #ME3 - and Jack was a key char. But is she alive?"
Modifié par Vertigo_1, 14 mai 2011 - 03:38 .
#19579
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 03:48
jtav
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Meaning, "Is she alive in your save?" I'll wager. Casey, you dog. I'd be willing to bet on Jack being a squaddie.
#19580
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 04:03
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Losing out on a potential full squadmate because you got it killed would be a true implementation of those "important decisions" we've been hearing so much about.
Modifié par yorkj86, 14 mai 2011 - 04:04 .
#19581
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 05:04
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Now that I think about it, if Jack is a potential full squadmate, that would be an opportunity for her writer(s) to tell us more about her "neural degeneration." Of course it could produce a Bad End, but character development is character development, sad or happy.
#19582
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 05:31
Goat_Shepard
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I can't stand that PR lingo! Casey sounds like Pinocchio trying not to lie.
Charming: Do you know if Jack is in ME3?
Casey: Well, I don't know whether she's not.
Charming: So you don't know whether she is?
Casey: On the contrary.
Charming: So you do know whether she is?
Casey: I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that I undeniably do or do not know whether she shouldn't probably be in it, if that indeed wasn't where she isn't.
*facepalm*
Charming: Do you know if Jack is in ME3?
Casey: Well, I don't know whether she's not.
Charming: So you don't know whether she is?
Casey: On the contrary.
Charming: So you do know whether she is?
Casey: I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that I undeniably do or do not know whether she shouldn't probably be in it, if that indeed wasn't where she isn't.
*facepalm*
Her and Kaiden both. I think if anyone can beat the neural degen, it's Subject Zero. It's one thing to take away any chance of her having a normal life, it's another to have her spend her last years drooling in a bucket.yorkj86 wrote...
Now that I think about it, if Jack is a potential full squadmate, that would be an opportunity for her writer(s) to tell us more about her "neural degeneration." Of course it could produce a Bad End, but character development is character development, sad or happy.
#19583
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 05:47
Ymladdych
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/delurkGoat_Shepard wrote...
I can't stand that PR lingo! Casey sounds like Pinocchio trying not to lie.
Charming: Do you know if Jack is in ME3?
Casey: Well, I don't know whether she's not.
Charming: So you don't know whether she is?
Casey: On the contrary.
Charming: So you do know whether she is?
Casey: I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that I undeniably do or do not know whether she shouldn't probably be in it, if that indeed wasn't where she isn't.
*facepalm*
***/snip***
Okay, that's funny. Thanks for the laugh.
Spoiler
/relurk
***Edit: Sorry, forgot the Spoiler tag.
Modifié par Ymladdych, 15 mai 2011 - 02:50 .
#19584
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 06:33
royceclemens
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Speaking of which, something written about ME3 is giving me something to think about.
-SPOILERS, EPANTIRAS, STOP READING THIS-
It's been written in (I think) GI that "the ending will vary depending on who you have in your squad." Which leads me to believe that either who we've gotten killed up tp this point will actually matter, or our squadmates will pull a Dragon Age and tell us to go screw if they don't like what we're doing.
It's not like I needed any prompting not to side with Cerberus, but the possibility that Jack will walk if we do? I don't even need to finish that thought.
-SPOILERS, EPANTIRAS, STOP READING THIS-
It's been written in (I think) GI that "the ending will vary depending on who you have in your squad." Which leads me to believe that either who we've gotten killed up tp this point will actually matter, or our squadmates will pull a Dragon Age and tell us to go screw if they don't like what we're doing.
It's not like I needed any prompting not to side with Cerberus, but the possibility that Jack will walk if we do? I don't even need to finish that thought.
#19585
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 08:33
Mondo47
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Oh. Sensational.
[Warning Epants - might be something you construe as a SPOILER]
Based on that, Uncle Royce, I am left a'wondering, if BioWare are going to (as they have said before in previous teasing guff) "reward" those who "don't cheat" by making the "good endings" dependant on remaining loyal to the ME1 love interests. Do not get me started again on how monumentally stupid it is to consider expressing an interest in someone new two years after being declared dead and your previous lover is in the process of moving on with their lives "cheating." What's next - never having another boyfriend for the rest of your life after that stupid four-day fling you had after the prom? <_<
And if this big if about alive-status is going anywhere near the neural degeneration question...
You hear that? That noise is me banging my head on my desk at the prospect of every single teaser making me want to buy the damn game less... I don't think I trust BioWare anymore to give me a game that makes me feel like I just walked out of a really good movie at the end of it. I remember reading Footfall in my teens and having a similar level of frustration at the complete inability to resolve things well... oh, we'll craft a character that all the readers will love, we'll leave them in a same-time-next-week cliffhanger moment of peril, and never tell the audience if they survived or not. Twenty-six years later, I am still wondering if Harry Reddington survived his adventure aboard the Michael... and it isn't something that makes a reader happy. This level of trepidation about being given something much more important than just being given a good game - being given a good ending to a story - is not pleasant.
On the plus side, I doubt they'd go to all the trouble of giving Jack a design overhaul and moot her maturation of character to just have her finish her role in the story unable to remember Shepard's name or feed herself. If they did, it would be outstandingly high on the puppy-kicking scale, and not really a reward for those that went to the effort of seeing what Jack was like underneath all the bluster and bad language. Which brings me and this ramble back where I came in - are we going to be summarily punished for moving on, because last time I checked even for the real sticklers on remaining true to another, those vows end till death do you part?
I really hope not. Jack's story deserves a resolution worthy of the character, not some brush-off choice of only being able to save the universe if you stay with or go back to the first romance. Ditching her to save the galaxy would be a severe dose of DO NOT WANT
[Warning Epants - might be something you construe as a SPOILER]
Based on that, Uncle Royce, I am left a'wondering, if BioWare are going to (as they have said before in previous teasing guff) "reward" those who "don't cheat" by making the "good endings" dependant on remaining loyal to the ME1 love interests. Do not get me started again on how monumentally stupid it is to consider expressing an interest in someone new two years after being declared dead and your previous lover is in the process of moving on with their lives "cheating." What's next - never having another boyfriend for the rest of your life after that stupid four-day fling you had after the prom? <_<
And if this big if about alive-status is going anywhere near the neural degeneration question...
You hear that? That noise is me banging my head on my desk at the prospect of every single teaser making me want to buy the damn game less... I don't think I trust BioWare anymore to give me a game that makes me feel like I just walked out of a really good movie at the end of it. I remember reading Footfall in my teens and having a similar level of frustration at the complete inability to resolve things well... oh, we'll craft a character that all the readers will love, we'll leave them in a same-time-next-week cliffhanger moment of peril, and never tell the audience if they survived or not. Twenty-six years later, I am still wondering if Harry Reddington survived his adventure aboard the Michael... and it isn't something that makes a reader happy. This level of trepidation about being given something much more important than just being given a good game - being given a good ending to a story - is not pleasant.
On the plus side, I doubt they'd go to all the trouble of giving Jack a design overhaul and moot her maturation of character to just have her finish her role in the story unable to remember Shepard's name or feed herself. If they did, it would be outstandingly high on the puppy-kicking scale, and not really a reward for those that went to the effort of seeing what Jack was like underneath all the bluster and bad language. Which brings me and this ramble back where I came in - are we going to be summarily punished for moving on, because last time I checked even for the real sticklers on remaining true to another, those vows end till death do you part?
I really hope not. Jack's story deserves a resolution worthy of the character, not some brush-off choice of only being able to save the universe if you stay with or go back to the first romance. Ditching her to save the galaxy would be a severe dose of DO NOT WANT
#19586
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 09:23
Guest_yorkj86_*
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[SPOILER]
@Mondo,
No, I was just saying, if Jack is brought back as a full squadmate, instead of as a cameo, that's a lot more time to work with character development. A cameo is pretty limited. The topic of her "neural degeneration" would be more easily covered if she's a full squadmate, than if she were just a cameo.
@Mondo,
No, I was just saying, if Jack is brought back as a full squadmate, instead of as a cameo, that's a lot more time to work with character development. A cameo is pretty limited. The topic of her "neural degeneration" would be more easily covered if she's a full squadmate, than if she were just a cameo.
Modifié par yorkj86, 14 mai 2011 - 09:24 .
#19587
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:28
royceclemens
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-SPOILERS, SUCKA-
Even if Jack does go full squaddie (and she's being handicapped very well in that regard), I don't think they're going to break out the neural degradation chestnut. BioWare may be dumb on occasion, but they're not stupid. A character rising and falling on a codex entry that people may not have read (and I never read the codex in ME2) would be stupid. And besides, we've got one guy dying from a terminal illness already. No need to lacquer on the morose horses--t for another character.
In fact, given that they're "softening her up," apparently, it seems to me like they're setting her up for a happy ending. If a little anger goes away in exchange for avoidance of an out-of-left-field, rocks-fall-Jack-dies ending, I'm more than happy for a trade-off. Who here isn't?
Even if Jack does go full squaddie (and she's being handicapped very well in that regard), I don't think they're going to break out the neural degradation chestnut. BioWare may be dumb on occasion, but they're not stupid. A character rising and falling on a codex entry that people may not have read (and I never read the codex in ME2) would be stupid. And besides, we've got one guy dying from a terminal illness already. No need to lacquer on the morose horses--t for another character.
In fact, given that they're "softening her up," apparently, it seems to me like they're setting her up for a happy ending. If a little anger goes away in exchange for avoidance of an out-of-left-field, rocks-fall-Jack-dies ending, I'm more than happy for a trade-off. Who here isn't?
#19588
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:33
Goat_Shepard
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Mondo's back, baby!
There is absolutely no way Bioware will favor the ME1 LI over the ME2 ones, if experience has taught me anything, it's the other way around.
---------------------
Shepard: "Cerberus and I want the same thing, to save our colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them."
Ash: "Do you believe that, or is that just what Cerberus wants you to think?" (are you saying I'm stupid, Ash?)
"I wanted to believe you were alive, but I never expected anything like this" (we live in unexpected times in case you didn't notice the giant Collector ship full of kidnapped colonists)
Shepard: "You saw it yourself, the Collectors are targetting human colonies, and they're working for the Reapers".
Ash: "I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus. And it worries me that you do. What did you do to you?"
Jack: "Jeez, I hate these guys too, but there are bigger threats out there".
Ash: "You show up after 2 years and tell me you're working for Cerberus. Seems like you left reason behind a long time ago"
"I still know where my loyalties lie."
"So long, commander. Good luck."
-----------------------
Bioware wants us to move on if the poor writing on Horizon has any weight whatsoever. Idk who has used the word "faithful", "loyal", or "cheating", but if it's a higher up then I'm getting some mixed signals, here.
As for Jack's neural degen, I agree with Royce. IMO Bioware loves Jack and is too soft to write an outcome of such puppy-kicking proportions. There has to be outlasting hope for someone like Jack if you take the right steps, otherwise the moral of the story is lost.
I at LEAST hope the inevitable cameos from multiple characters will be in the form of temporary squadmates, and I can choose whether to have Samara on for a fight or Zaeed or something. It can be easily done!
There is absolutely no way Bioware will favor the ME1 LI over the ME2 ones, if experience has taught me anything, it's the other way around.
---------------------
Shepard: "Cerberus and I want the same thing, to save our colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them."
Ash: "Do you believe that, or is that just what Cerberus wants you to think?" (are you saying I'm stupid, Ash?)
"I wanted to believe you were alive, but I never expected anything like this" (we live in unexpected times in case you didn't notice the giant Collector ship full of kidnapped colonists)
Shepard: "You saw it yourself, the Collectors are targetting human colonies, and they're working for the Reapers".
Ash: "I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus. And it worries me that you do. What did you do to you?"
Jack: "Jeez, I hate these guys too, but there are bigger threats out there".
Ash: "You show up after 2 years and tell me you're working for Cerberus. Seems like you left reason behind a long time ago"
"I still know where my loyalties lie."
"So long, commander. Good luck."
-----------------------
Bioware wants us to move on if the poor writing on Horizon has any weight whatsoever. Idk who has used the word "faithful", "loyal", or "cheating", but if it's a higher up then I'm getting some mixed signals, here.
As for Jack's neural degen, I agree with Royce. IMO Bioware loves Jack and is too soft to write an outcome of such puppy-kicking proportions. There has to be outlasting hope for someone like Jack if you take the right steps, otherwise the moral of the story is lost.
That's what I'm here for, babe.Ymladdych wrote...
Okay, that's funny. Thanks for the laugh. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]
I at LEAST hope the inevitable cameos from multiple characters will be in the form of temporary squadmates, and I can choose whether to have Samara on for a fight or Zaeed or something. It can be easily done!
Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 14 mai 2011 - 10:35 .
#19589
Guest_Andres3999_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 10:42
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yorkj86 wrote...
Now that I think about it, if Jack is a potential full squadmate, that would be an opportunity for her writer(s) to tell us more about her "neural degeneration." Of course it could produce a Bad End, but character development is character development, sad or happy.
what Jack has neural degeneration?
Modifié par Andres3999, 14 mai 2011 - 10:43 .
#19590
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 11:14
Guest_yorkj86_*
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Andres3999 wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
Now that I think about it, if Jack is a potential full squadmate, that would be an opportunity for her writer(s) to tell us more about her "neural degeneration." Of course it could produce a Bad End, but character development is character development, sad or happy.
what Jack has neural degeneration?
It's mentioned in the flavor text for her character-specific biotic damage upgrade.
Really, all non-asari experience neural degeneration from biotics usage. Jack's not the only one with the problem. Jack's neural degeneration is just unique.
#19591
Guest_Andres3999_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 11:18
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@york
Thanks for telling me i didnt know that.
Thanks for telling me i didnt know that.
Modifié par Andres3999, 14 mai 2011 - 11:18 .
#19592
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 14 mai 2011 - 11:23
Guest_yorkj86_*
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[SPOILER]
@Royce,
Yes, it does seem like they could be setting her up for a happy ending, one with Shepard, or without. Seeing as how a very common complaint raised about Jack is that she's a confrontational ****, I'd enjoy the mild schadenfreude of people who realize, too long after the fact, that maybe Jack is a good character and a cool person - but they don't get to see that, because she's dead in their playthroughs.
Whatever.
@Royce,
Yes, it does seem like they could be setting her up for a happy ending, one with Shepard, or without. Seeing as how a very common complaint raised about Jack is that she's a confrontational ****, I'd enjoy the mild schadenfreude of people who realize, too long after the fact, that maybe Jack is a good character and a cool person - but they don't get to see that, because she's dead in their playthroughs.
Whatever.
Modifié par yorkj86, 14 mai 2011 - 11:23 .
#19593
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 12:19
Goat_Shepard
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How so? Obviously Jack is unique amongst biotics, but how is her neural degen different?yorkj86 wrote...
It's mentioned in the flavor text for her character-specific biotic damage upgrade.
Really, all non-asari experience neural degeneration from biotics usage. Jack's not the only one with the problem. Jack's neural degeneration is just unique.
We WILL enjoy it, when people waltz in and read us talking about her great ending and saying "aww, man, I was SOO wrong to kill her!". Even if they don't actually say it, I know there are people crazier than Jack because they go out of their way to kill Jack just because they don't like her. And I laaugh and laaugh at the irony.yorkj86 wrote...
[SPOILER]
@Royce,
Yes, it does seem like they could be setting her up for a happy ending, one with Shepard, or without. Seeing as how a very common complaint raised about Jack is that she's a confrontational ****, I'd enjoy the mild schadenfreude of people who realize, too long after the fact, that maybe Jack is a good character and a cool person - but they don't get to see that, because she's dead in their playthroughs.
Whatever.
Whatever, they can kill off everyone who's too b!tchy or too nice or too ugly for their tastes. Not my playthrough, not my problem.
Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 15 mai 2011 - 12:22 .
#19594
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 12:32
StefanBW
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Goat_Shepard wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
It's mentioned in the flavor text for her character-specific biotic damage upgrade.
Really, all non-asari experience neural degeneration from biotics usage. Jack's not the only one with the problem. Jack's neural degeneration is just unique.
How so? Obviously Jack is unique amongst biotics, but how is her neural degen different
Jack's neural degeneration is unique since it increases her biotic potential instead of decreasing it.
Edit: I tried to find it on the ME Wikia, but they don't seem to have an article about it. However, with the power of Google I found the description in our very own little thread, by our very own york. ^^
Modifié par stefanbw, 15 mai 2011 - 12:40 .
#19595
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:39
Goat_Shepard
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HOLY CRAP!stefanbw wrote...
Jack's neural degeneration is unique since it increases her biotic potential instead of decreasing it.
Edit: I tried to find it on the ME Wikia, but they don't seem to have an article about it. However, with the power of Google I found the description in our very own little thread, by our very own york. ^^
Yes, yes! The upgrade is immoral! All my imports are forfeit!
I'm somewhat serious, I'll have to think about this
Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 15 mai 2011 - 02:40 .
#19596
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 02:42
axl99
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Well it isn't like you're forcing her to upgrade it. She could just refuse, vehemently.
But gameplay suggests that she won't say no to a little more firepower.
But gameplay suggests that she won't say no to a little more firepower.
#19597
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 03:03
Goat_Shepard
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What if Jack isn't fully aware of the science of it? She could be like me and just see the +20% damage and not read too much into it. The survivalist in her would not condone something that would impair her abilities in the future.
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Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 15 mai 2011 - 03:05 .
#19598
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 03:05
Guest_yorkj86_*
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I kind of meant that topic from a meta-standpoint. The flavor text may or may not be "canon." It probably isn't. But the "neural degeneration" part is interesting.
#19599
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 03:07
Mondo47
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And there's nothing to say that you can't take it out again later... hell, save the universe, she could take out all her implants and try the normal life she was denied. I somehow doubt she'd ever consent to all of them going, but pulling the plug on a few things once she finds her comfortable place to stop... might buy more healthy time down the line...
Or maybe, if we want to get into silly sci-fi what-ifs, just maybe the fact that her potential is increasing in relation to the progress of the apparent degeneration... maybe Jack is in the progress of becoming an actual human biotic; the brain can and does rewire and repair itself in reality when it suffers traumatic tissue and nerve damage, so just as the asari are all natural biotics, maybe Jack is slowly, unbeknown to herself, reconfiguring her brain and CNS for just that purpose. And let's face facts here, if TIM ever wanted an army of super-biotics, they're not that effective if they're as hit and miss to produce as Jack - how many hundreds of kids sacrificed to get just one working prototype? Wouldn't it be just more cost effective and practical to make them breed that way? And considering TIM has beaten death through the Lazarus Project... doesn't sound that impossible, does it?
Food for thought... isn't it?
Or maybe, if we want to get into silly sci-fi what-ifs, just maybe the fact that her potential is increasing in relation to the progress of the apparent degeneration... maybe Jack is in the progress of becoming an actual human biotic; the brain can and does rewire and repair itself in reality when it suffers traumatic tissue and nerve damage, so just as the asari are all natural biotics, maybe Jack is slowly, unbeknown to herself, reconfiguring her brain and CNS for just that purpose. And let's face facts here, if TIM ever wanted an army of super-biotics, they're not that effective if they're as hit and miss to produce as Jack - how many hundreds of kids sacrificed to get just one working prototype? Wouldn't it be just more cost effective and practical to make them breed that way? And considering TIM has beaten death through the Lazarus Project... doesn't sound that impossible, does it?
Food for thought... isn't it?
#19600
Posté 15 mai 2011 - 03:16
Goat_Shepard
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Yes, yes indeed. And you're correct, york, my assumptions are baseless. Mondo is working on information that is actually given. Similar to Grunt, though, once Subject Zero was figured out, no more kids would have to die, right?
Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 15 mai 2011 - 03:17 .
