20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

As a Morrigan lover myself (Morriganmancer? Morrigancer? No, that doesn't sound quite right), I would be quite annoyed if BioWare doesn't do something to provide some closure to that little chapter. I'd like to happen in a proper expansion or sequel though - but I guess DLC would be better than nothing. 

I really wish the Dragon Age people would adopt something closer to the Mass Effect approach, at least in terms of being sure whether they want to continue the same story from one game to the next, or completely start over with the next instalment. The "little from column A, little from column B" route they went with for Awakening isn't really doing it for me. 

Morrigan lover... eeep. Sorry, that's just creepy... chick was warped, even by my standards. Tried it and it creeped me out too much and I never completed my second playthrough. So, do you come back from the dead in Awakenings? Or is it new-guy or sell-out-humanity-guy in the main seat?

If I can come back from the dead I might part with the money for it...

[royceclemens]

Mondo47 wrote...

Leliana was nice, and you made me lie to her! And who's going to take care of my dog? Yeah, I'm still crying here

I think a 'romance pack' as outlined in the thread that covers the concept in the forums is a neat idea if it's handled right and it treats all the ME romances in a loyal and equal light. The people that stayed faithful will want a reconciliation with Liara, Ash or Kaidan, and the folk that made out like bandits with Tali, Jack, Miranda, Garrus, Jacob and Thane will expect the same. If they are willing and able to support it to the degree it deserves, I'm for it.

Awkward date with Tali on the Citadel - racist waiter, problems with re-enacting the scene from Lady & The Tramp due to food compatability problems, what happens when Tali gets loaded.

Awkward date with Miranda on Illium - Shep isn't all that up on etiquette, bill is about 200,000 credits, Miranda's father owns the restaurant.

Awkward date with Jack on the Citadel - Shep and Jack take in the new version of Casablanca... alas, it's the Elcor version, Jack thinks the private box is an ideal place for sex and has brought a grenade belt with her to avoid complete boredom.

I've gone through at least one of these possible situations, so I can vouch for their realism

You forgort Jacob and FemShep at the carnval booth on Omega...

SHEPARD: No, Jacob, I don't want the stuffed Vorcha.

JACOB: But I knocked down the milk bottles.  I won it for you.  It's... the priiiiiiize...

Sorry.  Couldn't help myself.

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 -

Well, what I liked most about Morrigan was that she reminded me of Viconia - though I guess I have to admit, she didn't really have anywhere near the same history of hardship and abuse to justify her disposition. I do tend to be drawn to that kind of stuff though - I guess I'm a bit of a masochist in that way (in video games that is). I liked Leliana too, but the whole affair almost seemed... too easy.

As for coming back from the dead - well, kind of. If you import a dead guy, you basically get retconned into never having died in the first place. They don't even try to justify it plot-wise.

Modifié par Booglarize, 17 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Can't say I care for a romance pack. Would easily prefer it if they expanded on squad interaction both with Sheperd and each other. Allow Femsheps and Mansheps who didn't do the romance to get to know Jack better.

royceclemens wrote...

If this is true, I pity the poor Miranda fans who aren't getting one. I'm not saying this out of spite, but her show got picked up for another season. She's gonna be busy.

First thing I can think of is a minimal dialogue, bare-bones (heh ) deal which is recycled for all of the LIs.

Which means MORE JACOB FOR THE REST OF US!

Well, if anyone needs it, it's Jacob.

Mondo47 wrote...

Leliana was nice, and you made me lie
to her! And who's going to take care of my dog?

Since Dog magically dissapeared, apparently no-one remembered to feed
him. Or maybe he just sat at the gates of Denerim and starved himself
waiting for you to get back.

[Booglarize]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Can't say I care for a romance pack. Would easily prefer it if they expanded on squad interaction both with Sheperd and each other. Allow Femsheps and Mansheps who didn't do the romance to get to know Jack better.

I agree, I think. As much as I enjoyed the romances, a "romance pack" by itself would feel a little hollow. Better to have something that expands interaction and dialogue all-round. 

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 -

Well, what I liked most about Morrigan was that she reminded me of Viconia - though I guess I have to admit, she didn't really have anywhere near the same history of hardship and abuse to justify her disposition. I do tend to be drawn to that kind of stuff though - I guess I'm a bit of a masochist in that way (in video games that is). I liked Leliana too, but the whole affair almost seemed... too easy.

As for coming back from the dead - well, kind of. If you import a dead guy, you basically get retconned into never having died in the first place. They don't even try to justify it plot-wise.

I kind of went with the best of a bad lot... Zev just wanted security, Alistair was a complete jackass, and Sten didn't seem interested in women, soooo... Leliana it was. I was kind of taken in by how nice she was... I mean, it was like dating a virtual candy-apple she was so sweet. And by the time I got to the end and realised that no matter how big a Conrad Verner Alistair was I couldn't let him sell his soul to save my ass, and Loghain was in too many bits to do anything (plus he was a total douche, and I wasn't letting him have his honour back postmortem)... sooooo, painted into a corner I was. And so I resented having to lie to Leliana, because it felt like just another boot stuck in the puppy that was me. I'd already had it rubbed in I was going to die enough without that...

I didn't really have anything against Morrigan, just the more I talked to her the more it seemed obvious that she had been hopelessly twisted into enacting whatever Flemeth wanted; I saw the damn conspiracy in everything - even in Flemeth's death. I felt as though not letting her get knocked up with Baby Cthulhu was a kindness, because it actually let her be free (or did it... suppose not... can't escape a conspiracy). In fact, the whole game seemed like a conspiratorial morality play - hey, play this game for 60 odd hours only to discover you can't have a happy ending unless you act like a douchebag! I'm still not, as you can tell, impressed

Anyways - back on topic! I've dried me eyes now

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Leliana
was nice, and you made me lie
to her! And who's going to take care
of my dog?

Since Dog magically dissapeared, apparently
no-one remembered to feed
him. Or maybe he just sat at the gates of
Denerim and starved himself
waiting for you to get back.

NOOOOOOOO! Don't say that!

Modifié par Mondo47, 17 mars 2010 - 05:11 .

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 wrote...

I kind of went with the best of a bad lot... Zev just wanted security, Alistair was a complete jackass, and Sten didn't seem interested in women, soooo... Leliana it was. I was kind of taken in by how nice she was... I mean, it was like dating a virtual candy-apple she was so sweet. And by the time I got to the end and realised that no matter how big a Conrad Verner Alistair was I couldn't let him sell his soul to save my ass, and Loghain was in too many bits to do anything (plus he was a total douche, and I wasn't letting him have his honour back postmortem)... sooooo, painted into a corner I was. And so I resented having to lie to Leliana, because it felt like just another boot stuck in the puppy that was me. I'd already had it rubbed in I was going to die enough without that...

 Hah... I pretty much ran the gamut in DA - started out with Zevran as a brief fling, then Morrigan, then Leliana, then back to Morrigan, who I stayed with till the end. Of course, this meant that I didn't share the same moral qualms about the ritual that some other people may have had.

Come to think of it, one thing that I think Mass Effect could use is a better "break up" system for ending relationships. I liked how DA did it - nothing fancy; just an additional couple lines of dialogue, and something like "We need to end this" or what have you. Definitely better than having to loop through a conversation I've already had, and selecting a different response from the one I actually gave earlier. 

If they're adding a romance pack, they should definitely iron out those little quirks before they start adding any different stuff. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 17 mars 2010 - 05:29 .

[royceclemens]

Thank you, booglarize. I have forty spare dollars now.

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

Hah... I pretty much ran the gamut in DA - started out with Zevran as a brief fling, then Morrigan, then Leliana, then back to Morrigan, who I stayed with till the end. Of course, this meant that I didn't share the same moral qualms about the ritual that some other people may have had.

Come to think of it, one thing that I think Mass Effect could use is a better "break up" system for ending relationships. I liked how DA did it - nothing fancy; just an additional couple lines of dialogue, and something like "We need to end this" or what have you. Definitely better than having to loop through a conversation I've already had, and selecting a different response from the one I actually gave earlier. 

If they're adding a romance pack, they should definitely iron out those little quirks before they start adding any different stuff. 

Yeah, I could go for that too... the whole 11th hour breakup thing is just too bloody harsh. Wouldn't even wish it on Miranda. Plus I've never really agreed with the whole 11th hour sex scene because it really cheapens any actual sense of romance there, it's all just "Oh, we're all going to die so we may as well get it on now." And I miss DA:O's 'Let's go to bed.' conversation option

You only romanced them one at a time? Zev, Leliana and I had a few amusing hours whiled away at The Pearl...

[Chaos-fusion]

Booglarize wrote...

If they're adding a romance pack, they
should definitely iron out those little quirks before they start adding
any different stuff. 

Agreed. But at least ME2 had the option
to kill it, which is one thing ME1 was sorely lacking.

Mondo47 wrote...

NOOOOOOOO! Don't say that!

I like to think he went with Sten, or something personally equally silly for him to do, but otherwise leaves him alive and well. I loved my little Meat/Munch/other. Nobody else ever brought me wine, and old pantaloons.. <_<

[Mondo47]

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

[Booglarize]

royceclemens wrote...

Thank you, booglarize. I have forty spare dollars now.

Not a problem, my good man. You should consider spending that money in a charitable fashion - I'm currently collecting donations on behalf of The Human Fund, in case you're interested. 

[royceclemens]

Sorry, but we had a United Way drive at my job not too far back. I donated generously.

But going back to the romance DLC, Mondo, I think they should ignore their instincts about not being combat intensive and actually have missions with these characters whether you romanced them or not. You KNOW they're gonna charge for this, so we might as well get a few decent levels out of it. It wouldn't make sense to charge seven bucks for just plain ol' dialogue. (But if it were a free CN download, then I retract my statement).

But as for Jack specifically, I got a kick out of Morrigan giving the Male Warden a ring in DAO. I think something along those lines maybe? Being soft while putting up a shell around it? And maybe we could help her work out her emotions? Telling her that being genuine isn't the worst thing in the world?

At least that's how I see it. I'd like to hear other ideas.

Modifié par royceclemens, 17 mars 2010 - 06:22 .

[Booglarize]

 

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

In terms of adding lines of dialogue, I think the best approach would be to complicate matters by having Jack's insecurities resurface once again - possibly triggered by her encountering something else from her past, or unlocking some repressed memories or something. It might not be the happiest route, but I think it would be the most artistically sound - as touching as the romance scene for Jack was, I find it hard to believe that Shepard could just singlehandedly vanquish all of her demons like that. There should definitely be a lot more work involved. 

[Ilzairspar]

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that they focus on character based storylines with perhaps a added bonus if you romanced said particular character.

Date sim bad....have played one or two in the past..boring as hell.  Added interaction with characters in the course of a storyline is good.

how 'bout a romance/friendship pack instead? 

[Ilzairspar]

Booglarize wrote...

 

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

In terms of adding lines of dialogue, I think the best approach would be to complicate matters by having Jack's insecurities resurface once again - possibly triggered by her encountering something else from her past, or unlocking some repressed memories or something. It might not be the happiest route, but I think it would be the most artistically sound - as touching as the romance scene for Jack was, I find it hard to believe that Shepard could just singlehandedly vanquish all of her demons like that. There should definitely be a lot more work involved. 

hmm.. you know I can see that happening.  And with Jack the smallest thing might set off her demons of self-doubt.  I always wondered if Bioware decided to ditch Jack after you romanced her they would put that she got frightened about letting someone that close and scrammed out of there during a stop on illium or omega.

It takes more than a few months of conversations to get rid of years of instinct and reaction after all.

[Mondo47]

Ilzairspar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that they focus on character based storylines with perhaps a added bonus if you romanced said particular character.

Date sim bad....have played one or two in the past..boring as hell.  Added interaction with characters in the course of a storyline is good.

how 'bout a romance/friendship pack instead? 

Yeah, that was kinda my point... Jack and the R-word don't really dovetail, do they? Part of me is genuinely curious as to how someone with the amount of damage Jack copes with would handle someone actually romancing her. I mean, I know from experience that people begin to associate certain actions with certain ends; if Shep brought her a gift of some kind, would she then connect that to someone who used her before doing the same thing? It's only natural for the action to now be marred with something unpleasant. How would Shepard cope? Now she's let him in, he's now standing in the middle of a minefield he has to get across. Romancing Jack would be a exercise in careful patience, because every step forward could be a couple of steps back... or just explosive. In short, to remain true to the character, Jack can't have a 'romance' experience like Tali or Miranda might; she's too inside out for it.

Jack would work best as a kind of expanded therapy session; Shepard continues to tease more of Jack out of her shell, while at the same time proving he actually is different to all the other men that have chewed her up and spat her out. It could be seriously touching if it was handled right... or it could doom the entire relationship before it even has a chance to go anywhere. Or maybe Shep would just give up; armies of aliens are one thing, but one woman might be just too much for him to handle.

I'm forced to go back (just in case the Overlords are reading now) to one of my favorite 80's movies here - The Breakfast Club. Why did the Jock end up with the Basket-Case? It wasn't because in the end she put on makeup and made herself look like every other girl in the school (even though that's what they did in the movie - you could hear me screaming "What a ****ing cop-out!" right across the Atlantic) - it was because he liked who she was anyway. Don't cheapen Jack by making her easy - she has to stay difficult. That's part of her charm.

[gneissguy2003]

Mondo47 wrote...

Ilzairspar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that they focus on character based storylines with perhaps a added bonus if you romanced said particular character.

Date sim bad....have played one or two in the past..boring as hell.  Added interaction with characters in the course of a storyline is good.

how 'bout a romance/friendship pack instead? 

Yeah, that was kinda my point... Jack and the R-word don't really dovetail, do they? Part of me is genuinely curious as to how someone with the amount of damage Jack copes with would handle someone actually romancing her. I mean, I know from experience that people begin to associate certain actions with certain ends; if Shep brought her a gift of some kind, would she then connect that to someone who used her before doing the same thing? It's only natural for the action to now be marred with something unpleasant. How would Shepard cope? Now she's let him in, he's now standing in the middle of a minefield he has to get across. Romancing Jack would be a exercise in careful patience, because every step forward could be a couple of steps back... or just explosive. In short, to remain true to the character, Jack can't have a 'romance' experience like Tali or Miranda might; she's too inside out for it.

Jack would work best as a kind of expanded therapy session; Shepard continues to tease more of Jack out of her shell, while at the same time proving he actually is different to all the other men that have chewed her up and spat her out. It could be seriously touching if it was handled right... or it could doom the entire relationship before it even has a chance to go anywhere. Or maybe Shep would just give up; armies of aliens are one thing, but one woman might be just too much for him to handle.

I'm forced to go back (just in case the Overlords are reading now) to one of my favorite 80's movies here - The Breakfast Club. Why did the Jock end up with the Basket-Case? It wasn't because in the end she put on makeup and made herself look like every other girl in the school (even though that's what they did in the movie - you could hear me screaming "What a ****ing cop-out!" right across the Atlantic) - it was because he liked who she was anyway. Don't cheapen Jack by making her easy - she has to stay difficult. That's part of her charm.

Completely agree, and I think staying true to who Jack is will be the most difficult part.

Shepard has cracked her shell, and there's obviously something soft beneath, but I think Jack will quickly try and cement over those cracks because... well, that's what Jack does. I'd like to see Shepard have to continue to pull down her walls, but I'd also like to see some really good internal conflict with Jack over her relationship with Shepard. Maybe she becomes more hostile towards the crew. Maybe she just stonewalls Shepard at some point until something jars her out of her stance. I don't know. But I do know that the person behind the walls needs to come out and be acknowledged and discovered by us/Shepard, and re-discovered by Jack herself.

[Chaos-fusion]

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog,
Urz the Varren...

You're not alone. But I thought I was taking
it too far when I caught myself thinking, "Aww, look at the thresher
maw! Isn't he cute!"

What do you think you could do with
Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance'
in mind)? Any thoughts?

What, you don't see her as a candlelit
dinner kinda gal? Actually, that would be kinda funny.

Seriously, it's far easier for them to just throw out some poorly-thought out, but easily implemented thing for Jack in this. Or something to make her more "approachable". Considering the comparisons between Jack and Viconia that have been made earlier, I may dig out my BG collection and see how it was expanded through ToB for some rough idea based of where they took that. But then, I doubt they'd take Jack in the same direction, so.. I dunno. *Shrug*

[adriano_c]

Booglarize wrote...

I'm currently collecting donations on behalf of The Human Fund, in case you're interested. 

Costanza?!

[Ilzairspar]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Ilzairspar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I think I'm a sucker for animals... Dog, Urz the Varren...

Ok, I'm not saying that if they do this 'romance pack' (for want of a better word) it should be a date-sim, but... what do you think you could do with Jack to expand her in this kind of direction (bearing the word 'romance' in mind)? Any thoughts?

I'm hoping that they focus on character based storylines with perhaps a added bonus if you romanced said particular character.

Date sim bad....have played one or two in the past..boring as hell.  Added interaction with characters in the course of a storyline is good.

how 'bout a romance/friendship pack instead? 

Yeah, that was kinda my point... Jack and the R-word don't really dovetail, do they? Part of me is genuinely curious as to how someone with the amount of damage Jack copes with would handle someone actually romancing her. I mean, I know from experience that people begin to associate certain actions with certain ends; if Shep brought her a gift of some kind, would she then connect that to someone who used her before doing the same thing? It's only natural for the action to now be marred with something unpleasant. How would Shepard cope? Now she's let him in, he's now standing in the middle of a minefield he has to get across. Romancing Jack would be a exercise in careful patience, because every step forward could be a couple of steps back... or just explosive. In short, to remain true to the character, Jack can't have a 'romance' experience like Tali or Miranda might; she's too inside out for it.

Jack would work best as a kind of expanded therapy session; Shepard continues to tease more of Jack out of her shell, while at the same time proving he actually is different to all the other men that have chewed her up and spat her out. It could be seriously touching if it was handled right... or it could doom the entire relationship before it even has a chance to go anywhere. Or maybe Shep would just give up; armies of aliens are one thing, but one woman might be just too much for him to handle.

I'm forced to go back (just in case the Overlords are reading now) to one of my favorite 80's movies here - The Breakfast Club. Why did the Jock end up with the Basket-Case? It wasn't because in the end she put on makeup and made herself look like every other girl in the school (even though that's what they did in the movie - you could hear me screaming "What a ****ing cop-out!" right across the Atlantic) - it was because he liked who she was anyway. Don't cheapen Jack by making her easy - she has to stay difficult. That's part of her charm.

Completely agree, and I think staying true to who Jack is will be the most difficult part.

Shepard has cracked her shell, and there's obviously something soft beneath, but I think Jack will quickly try and cement over those cracks because... well, that's what Jack does. I'd like to see Shepard have to continue to pull down her walls, but I'd also like to see some really good internal conflict with Jack over her relationship with Shepard. Maybe she becomes more hostile towards the crew. Maybe she just stonewalls Shepard at some point until something jars her out of her stance. I don't know. But I do know that the person behind the walls needs to come out and be acknowledged and discovered by us/Shepard, and re-discovered by Jack herself.

I agree with both of you 100%, I also think that Bioware would be fools not to explore this. This entire situation is just begging to be gone through.  I know from the audio of romanced jack in the suicide mission that she knew something like that would happen because she was too happy with shepard. 

Think about it, Jack could start getting even more parnoid for the other shoe to drop the longer things are going well between her and Shepard.  The constant fear of it going bad like everything else she's had in her life.  It could even culimate in her doing something destructive on puropose to force his hand and make him drop her.  You could possibly even bring in a sitation that was similar to something she herself dealt with, showing her how things can be versus how they were for her.

When it comes to Jack, the possibilities of untraditional storylines to help the romance are endless. 

Come on Bioware, do it right!

[Noilly Prat]

Mondo47 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

As a Morrigan lover myself (Morriganmancer? Morrigancer? No, that doesn't sound quite right), I would be quite annoyed if BioWare doesn't do something to provide some closure to that little chapter. I'd like to happen in a proper expansion or sequel though - but I guess DLC would be better than nothing. 

I really wish the Dragon Age people would adopt something closer to the Mass Effect approach, at least in terms of being sure whether they want to continue the same story from one game to the next, or completely start over with the next instalment. The "little from column A, little from column B" route they went with for Awakening isn't really doing it for me. 

Morrigan lover... eeep. Sorry, that's just creepy... chick was warped, even by my standards. Tried it and it creeped me out too much and I never completed my second playthrough. So, do you come back from the dead in Awakenings? Or is it new-guy or sell-out-humanity-guy in the main seat?

If I can come back from the dead I might part with the money for it...

I tend to agree with Booglarize here, on both counts.  (Though I can't speak for Awakening yet... off to get it today, I think.)

I romanced Morrigan too, so I won't pretend to be impartial about the whole thing (as if that's really possible anyway).  But I think I took a rather different reading of the whole ritual choice at the end, there, and of her character generally.  Still, I will gladly accept whatever consequences are thrown my way for doing it, though I'm not entirely convinced she wasn't sincere about her intentions.

And I liked Alistair.  

As for a romance pack in ME2... I'll take it, if it's well done.  (Okay, I'll probably take it regardless, but I'll prefer it if it's well done.)  Maybe that lying bastard Jacob will actually spill some drinks with us.

[Booglarize]

adriano_c wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

I'm currently collecting donations on behalf of The Human Fund, in case you're interested. 

Costanza?!

Hah yeah, it's a little volunteer thing I do on the side whenever I have some time off from my job at Vandelay Industries.

It just occurred to me, though... in the context of Mass Effect, doesn't "The Human Fund" sound a bit like something Cerberus would come up with?

[Epantiras]

royceclemens wrote...

But seriously, if they are planning on this, I hope they bring Jack's original writer back. No one else can do her dialogue.

After reading this I assume Jack's original writer left Bioware, am I mistaken? I also remember something like Thane's lines being written by the same who did Ashley's and that he did leave Bioware.

[Ilzairspar]

Epantiras wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

But seriously, if they are planning on this, I hope they bring Jack's original writer back. No one else can do her dialogue.

After reading this I assume Jack's original writer left Bioware, am I mistaken? I also remember something like Thane's lines being written by the same who did Ashley's and that he did leave Bioware.

I dont think we actually know if Jack's original writer is still with Bioware or not.