20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Errationatus]

[quote]Slurms McKenzie wrote...

@JakeMacDon

Alright, I'm getting tired of this. You wanna why I got angry? You attacked me for being a fanboy and for being 'gushy', and by extension many others who have posted in this thread and are guilty of this supposed crime as well, when you are so clearly a massive fanboy yourself. You say you've posting in this thread since it's teens? So, what, that's like over a year now? Well, mate, that suggests that you are in fact a raging Fanboy, you may like to kid yourself, by telling yourself you only engage in 'serious' conversation about Jack, well there's a world of difference there, isn't there?.
[/quote]

You really need to work on those powers of observation, Chuckles.  I'm no fanboy. If you had a clue, you would know how incredibly rare it is to have nuanced characters in any medium, let alone video games.  Admiration for a well-crafted character is not fanboyism.  Wanting to explore those nuances is rather a massively-different thing than whinging on about hair and clothes and how goddamm pretty she is. Want a Barbie?  Go buy a fvcking Barbie.  Wanna talk to adults in an adult manner about a game clearly aimed at adults?  Different case altogether.

[quote]
Do you really believe that I am in love with Jack, or anyone else is who makes a similar post? No, we aren't, the fact is that the difference is that we might just be treating the matter at hand a little less seriously than you.
[/quote]

And if I had cared about any of that, I would have said so.  Epantrias has done several rather less-than-serious and amusing takes on ME and Jack in particular - all enjoyable.  She's also created the exemplary "Door".

Another big gawddam difference: it's called content.

[quote]
And for the record, I did make serious posts about Jack when I first came to this thread, and perhaps the reason why this 'serious' conversation has waned of late, might have something to do with the fact there's only so much you can say about Jack, as much as it might pain you to hear this, she is not a character from classic literature.
[/quote]

Ah.  Not read much classic literature, then, have you?  Explains a bit.

[quote]
In fact, even the guy who founded this thread hasn't posted in months, because perhaps, he might have found some more productive method of spending his time.
[/quote]

Like what?  Creating another Jack thread when there was clearly no need for one?  Curious.  See, I would have thought an ME3 thread about Jack might actually be better after the game has come out, rather than months and months before when we know nothing about her in it other than she'll have a ponytail and a t-shirt.

So why did you create it?  What purpose could be served that couldn't be served here?  Are people really so goddamn lazy they didn't have the time or wherewithal to add spoiler tags to things?

Wow.  I am getting old.

[quote]
Don't treat other people less for being fanboys or fangirls, 'cos you are one.
[/quote]

Your powers of observation hold true, as I am quite clearly not.  Personally, I prefer Samara over Jack for looks, elegance and style.  As I said, I like Jack for her nuances.  For the fact that she is unique in video games, and a welome relief to the vast sea of sh!t out there.  My mistake, then, to attempt to have an adult conversation that doesn't devolve into Talimantic squeals. I treat people as they post.  You made this personal, not me.  Your apology not an apology was supposed to do what, exactly?

[quote]
The fact of the matter remains, that the vast majority of people who bought Mass Effect 2 and still really enjoyed it, would never even consider posting at all in the Bioware Social Network, and *shock* *horror*, they might have only had one playthrough!
[/quote]

Pity.  They've missed a great deal.

[quote]
So, stop criticizing others in the thread, for not living up to your pathetic pretensions about rules and regulations of thread posting!
[/quote]

I've done no such thing.  I simply stated an observation and a wish that this thread not plummet into the depths of the disease of infantilism so often displayed  - as an example - by the Talimancers.  Not taking a subject seriously and that are two entirely different things.  Do you get it yet?

[quote]
Furthermore, you criticized me for being heavy-handed?
[/quote]

No, I criticized you for an unwarranted and rather offensive attack entirely out of proportion to what I posted.  I criticize content, not people.  You did not do that. Like I said, you made this personal, not me.  You.

[quote]
You should evaluate your initial post. It is a scathing criticism of what is, frankly, the smallest crime.
[/quote]

You need to think and read well before you post.  You're not as funny nor as remotely clever as you think you are. 

[quote]
We were only engaging in some harmless banter.
[/quote]

I said nothing about your "banter" other than it was becoming indicative of the content of late of this thread. Are you so bored that you have nothing to say other than, "Oi, Mates, I fink Jackie's got a cute little bum, I do! Ain't dat the truf, eh? Eh? Eh?"  Nudge nudge wink wink, say no more! 

Need those page counts do ya?

[quote]
Get over yourself, and do us all favour by taking yourself a little less seriously.
[/quote]

I have a great sense of humour, thanks. You need to re-evaluate your style of posting, Slurms.  Or grow up.  Whichever comes first.

Like you said, getting tired of this.  It gets us nowhere, and I'm not here to educate you.

Peace out.

[SlottsMachine]

BATLASS, YOU ARE AWESOME!

And if either one of you makes another post towards continuing this ****fight, I'll be reporting you to the moderators. This is ****ing bull****.


Thinking happy thoughts....oh hey some nice Axl99 artwork.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 24 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[Errationatus]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Ahh yes, the people so lacking in perspective that they only comment on things as shallow as hair or "what will Tali look like", they are many. They're also not going anywhere, so the only way to get over that is to either A) Have more intelligent posters, and/or  Current intelligent posters need to contribute more. The "unserious" people are just as annoyed by Mondo's walls of text as serious people are annoyed by the gushing One-Word Johnny, there just needs to be balance.

Yes, but Mondo's wall of text is worth reading, and worth the time.  That's the important distinction here.  Nobody's damn life is so important - especially if you have the time to be here in the first place - that you only have time for the immature bullsh!t.

Give me a bleed'n break. 

Some lovey-dovey or sex talk isn't bad, correct me if I'm wrong but you once announced the topic change to "Jack's ta-ta's", but that was in the midst of super-serious debate, so regardless, it was refreshing, no?

That was entirely sarcasm, Goat.  Maybe I was too subtle. <_<

Except right now it's at 2% serious and 98% unserious which is way off the normal 90/10 ratio. We may start losing sponsors.

Such as I had lamented.  Crying in the wilderness, I am, I fear.

You're the one who's been here since the teens, why don't you tell me?

If I thought we had, I wouldn't have brought it up.

I think I know exactly where you're coming from, cuz I talked about Tali for 6 months straight until I'd heard everything that was actually and theoretically possible and impossible. And since I didn't want to rehash everything, I sat back and acted like a moderator.

I don't think I'm doing that.  Taking one or two or three poster's contributions as canon and then never going back into what they 'covered' is not how things should go.  Yes, they were insightful and intelligent, but not the last word.  Unfortunately, people seem to think that's the case.

The truth is, you can rehash old topics when there are new people to add perspective. They may surprise you, and at the very least, new posters will be reading these "rediscussions" for the first time and might learn something, cuz they're not going to sift through hundreds of pages to find something of interest.

Maybe they should.  Do you want to talk about a movie with someone who has only seen the last 20 minutes?  What's the point in that?  Can we say that you got the book if you only read the last ten pages?  It's a sad comment on attention spans, Goat.

It is rather frivolous, yes, but I think most know that and like to speculate for fun.

Never said it was a problem. Be my guest. 

Many people also have this notion that Bioware is reading our every post and if we don't publicly state our approval/disapproval of every bit of information that comes out, Casey won't know what to change/improve

Personally, I hope Bioware sticks to their story, and not succumbs to the incessant whining of the majority.  There would be only "Shep and Tali, Masters of The Universe!" then.  Again, I'd rather give those Bioware boys some credit and figure they aren't going to lobotomize a character the creators have already said was one of their favorites.  So what's all the worry about?  If they butcher her, vote with your damn wallets!

A stranger in his own home, this is not acceptable. I'm serious tho, don't run away from your problems, I'll start calling you Jack.

I'm not running from anything.  Slurms is bringing knives to a gunfight.  Who has that kinda time?

In the meantime, I've been meaning to end my hiatus from reading your FF, maybe finishing it will successfuly destroy any hope I have left for Jack.and I can stop squeeing (No offense intended, I have a love-hate relationship with sad stories and it's true of the first couple well-written chapters I've read from Intermezzo), if that story does end on a cliffhanger, I have a suggestion for how you can spend some of your time waiting for ME3 to come out

Well, the ending I had in mind was anything but sad.  There's no growth without pain.  There are no decent relationships without depth.  I may get back into it when I have the time to properly address it.  So, there's always hope.  Thanks for taking the time to read it, and I always appreciate intelligent criticism.

[SlottsMachine]

[punchbag]

Ok, how about we all have a truce? Everyone has (hopefully) had their say. Some differences are not likely to go away, so let's end here and get back to Jack. Unfortunately I don't have a "Jack topic" to bring up at the moment, so someone else please do so. Thanks

Edit: or maybe flood the thread with more Jack pics as GeneralSlotts is doing.
Axl is awesome artist BTW!!

Modifié par punchbag, 24 juin 2011 - 04:22 .

[SlottsMachine]

 Hey look, more Axl. She is very talented isn't she.

[SlottsMachine]

 And here's some Epantiras for everyone.... what an artist. She spoils us with her art, she makes us laugh, she is awesome.




This on has nothing to do you Jack, but who cares. Its awesome.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Hmmm, it appears I've offended a lot of people and I apologise for doing so, 'twas not my intention. And it seems, I've let people down, and I'm sorry. Such rants are out of character for me, and I do not wish to continue. I don't want this thread to get shut down by the moderators either, so I shall concede defeat on this instance.

However, I must point out one thing to JakeMacDon: I have read alot of classical literature. In fact, most of my higher education has been made up of it. Whether it's Virgil, Euripides, Sophocles or even some ancient Greek comedies by Aristophanes, I have read them in great detail, and if anyone has studied any form of literature in education, whether it be classical, english or otherwise, they would know that character evaluation dominates the agenda. So, please don't compare Jack to any such characters in these works, you'll just embarass yourself. Don't insult my intelligence either, you know little about me. I have talents, mostly musical (that does count). I've passed grade 8 in the UK's registry of guitar tutors, which in turn makes me a licensed electric guitar teacher, I can sing relatively well, and competed in the rather prestigious Eisteddfod competition in Wales in my youth too. I shall stand mah ground on this one, when it comes to classics and things guitar-related I know me stuff. 

To everyone else: I'm sorry

Good Luck and Stay Safe

Modifié par Slurms McKenzie, 24 juin 2011 - 05:34 .

[Batlass8]

@Slotts (may I call you Slotts?): Of course I am. I'm the goddam Batlass!

Obligatory Self-aggrandizement out of the way then, I would like to add some Jack pics:


I loved Jack's attitude in the trailer!


And we all love her boots!
By LordaGoran on deviantart.


Awesome cosplay is awesome.

[SlottsMachine]

 As long as I get to call you Batty.

I had not seen that second picture before. Very nice.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 24 juin 2011 - 06:47 .

[Errationatus]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

However, I must point out one thing to JakeMacDon: I have read alot of classical literature. In fact, most of my higher education has been made up of it. Whether it's Virgil, Euripides, Sophocles or even some ancient Greek comedies by Aristophanes, I have read them in great detail, and if anyone has studied any form of literature in education, whether it be classical, english or otherwise, they would know that character evaluation dominates the agenda. So, please don't compare Jack to any such characters in these works, you'll just embarass yourself. Don't insult my intelligence either, you know little about me.

To simply respond to this point:  that is not what I meant about "classic" literature.  You're a little too literal. Not quite that far back.  

However, having said that, I also think you'll find there are characters like Jack in that particular branch of the classics.  I lived with a woman for almost 20 years with a degree in English, currently getting her B.Ed to become a teacher of English Literature and Theatre, so I think that last jab of yours goes pretty much nowhere.  I can reach virtually in any direction and have access to shelves and shelves of literature, all the way from Gilgamesh to Gaiman, any time I like.

Like I said.  Knife to a gunfight.  Nice try though.

As I also said in my last post, I'm also done, so:

Ciao.

[Slurms McKenzie]

@JakeMacDon

I'm sorry, but state one character that is anything like Jack in the works I listed.

[SlottsMachine]

 
        by   lancea

[SlottsMachine]

You boys aren't listening.

[SlottsMachine]

Sadly this is very appropriate here.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 24 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[Slurms McKenzie]

@GeneralSlotts

I'm sorry to hassle you like this GeneralSlotts. But I can't help it! That man has to be right about everything! I admit I was wrong, I apologise once, he shoots me down in flames. I apologise again, and he takes a jab at my attempt to defend some of my redeeming features, he has to continually insist I'm an idiot. I mean is it really too difficult for him to comprehend that regarding this particular topic, that in the vast cosmos, there is one person who might know more than he does?

Good Luck and Stay Safe

[SlottsMachine]

Whatever man, if you can't let it go, send him a PM (private message). Its under "messages" in the "profile" menus. Otherwise I will report you, and I would very much like not to have to do that.

[Slurms McKenzie]

@GeneralSlotts

I have taken you up on your suggestion. I hope you will think better of me in the future.

Good Luck and Stay Safe

[fainmaca]

Shameless plug in order to get things back on a Jack-topic: Why not take a look at my fic? My shep's in a romance with Jack, and I'm exploring all the turbulent ups and downs the Reaper War can wreak on that relationship. I'd really like to hear what y'all think of the latest twist Miranda's chapter inflicted on the relationship.

*Spoilers*
Basically, the Normandy crew, along with a couple of new faces I've introduced, went to bust Miranda out of her father's mansion, rescuing her from his genetics labs.
During the course of the rescue, it was revealed that Miranda's father had created a bunch of kids from Miri's genes, using male DNA from a selection of 'prime' male candidates: sports stars, celebrities, and Commander Shepard.
Needless to say, the Commander's DNA being used to create children with Miranda isn't exactly going to make things easier for Jack.

How do you think she'll react?

Link: www.fanfiction.net/s/6601801/27/Mass_Effect_3_Into_the_Unknown

Please enjoy.

Modifié par fainmaca, 24 juin 2011 - 08:41 .

[Errationatus]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

@JakeMacDon

I'm sorry, but state one character that is anything like Jack in the works I listed.

Well, I  don't actually have to, since those gentlemen:  Virgil, Euripides, Sophocles, and Aristophanes are irrelevant since I've long since stated that those are not the classics I meant.  Directly parallels?  No.  But then I never said that, either.

I can toss off one that's been rather benighted - Medea gets a lot of crap handed to her, and she reacts violently.  That's just off the top of my head.  I'm sure I could find more had I the inclination to look, but since this was never germaine to my argument, I won't.

You can stop grasping anytime, as this is long since passed boring.

@General Slotts - dunno know if you've noticed, but we are actually talking about Jack. 

[Errationatus]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

@GeneralSlotts

I'm sorry to hassle you like this GeneralSlotts. But I can't help it! That man has to be right about everything!

I simply prefer accuracy.

I admit I was wrong, I apologise once, he shoots me down in flames.

I refused the apology because the outburst was completely unjustified.  You didn't explain why you were so vehement, just some left-handed whimsicality about "power drunkedness", which diluted the apology, and showed it to be less than sincere, since you were just simply apologizing because you realized how stupid you looked and not because you actually regretted anything - and as your subsequent posts - and PM - have shown, your apologies are worthless.

I apologise again, and he takes a jab at my attempt to defend some of my redeeming features, he has to continually insist I'm an idiot.

I thank you not to misrepresent me.  You did not apologise to me.  You apologized because you didn't get the support you thought you would.  It certainly didn't stop you from taking another pointless jab at me, though, did it - even after I said I'd finished with this nonsense.

I mean is it really too difficult for him to comprehend that regarding this particular topic, that in the vast cosmos, there is one person who might know more than he does?

That one person is not you, as you ably and continually demonstrate. 

What part of "I'm done", don't you understand?

[SlottsMachine]

@ Goat

A few days ago you were wondering if there was an alternate Jack romance, well I can confirm what we expected, that there is not one. I went with all the allowable renegade choices, while also killing Aresh.

[Errationatus]

Just to show I can stay on the subject of Jack - no pun intended - I discovered something a bit odd today,

A while back, folks were wondering just whom Jack's face was modelled after, and I believe the conclusion was, well, no one in particular.

I think that may have been an error.

Check this out.

Using my handy copy of Photoshop, matching up the profiles and doing a bit of transparency overlay to line them up, I think we have a very good candidate, as they line up extremely well. You other artists may give it a shot yourself and see if I'm right. In fact, I'd appreciate if you do.

Coincidence?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

My wife's eagle eye, this artist is not too proud to admit, saw it first.  But I think it was a damn good call. 

Mystery solved?

[Goat_Shepard]

As "holier than thou" as you are, Jake, I understand and agree with what you're saying. However, people are going to have different tastes, and sometimes they're simple. If someone wants to have fun by engaging in some on-topic banter or minific trading or roleplaying, I don't feel like I have the objectivety to tell them to FO, cuz they're not hurting anyone or trolling, they're technically showing their support. The only thing at stake is the reputation of the thread, and caring about that is....paltry. The best solution is to tolerate, outlast, outplay.

Also want to say Mondo's walls of text are the reason I won't forget this place. Hell, she was one of the few people with consistent enthusiasm. It was pathogenic, and I do miss it so.

About Intermezzo, truer words were not recently spoken. All I ask is that when you get your writing muse, you seize it.

About Nefertiti, the resemblance is uncanny. Their cheekbones, eye size, eye spacing, smallish nose, luscious lips, even jaw line are very similar. I'm not sure why but Jack's earpiece always made me think of ancient Egypt, as well. The tan-ish skin and eyeliner was a subtle reminder, too.

fainmaca wrote...
*Spoilers*
Basically, the Normandy crew, along with a couple of new faces I've introduced, went to bust Miranda out of her father's mansion, rescuing her from his genetics labs.
During the course of the rescue, it was revealed that Miranda's father had created a bunch of kids from Miri's genes, using male DNA from a selection of 'prime' male candidates: sports stars, celebrities, and Commander Shepard.
Needless to say, the Commander's DNA being used to create children with Miranda isn't exactly going to make things easier for Jack.

l-o-l just when I thought I'd seen it all. I'm adding this to my list for how epic the anecdote was

Batlass8 wrote...
That said, I'd welcome a substantive discussion of Jack's character. (Although I'd probably be more of a lurker than a contributor to said conversation since I don't think I have a full grasp of her character yet--even now!)

I feel the same way. I don't think anyone can truly empathise with aliens and characters like Jack, that's why I find them so intriguing even after a year and 1/2 of playing off and on.

Does anyone have any topic suggestions? Is there a classical literary character that reminds you of Jack? Should we compare and contrast Jack with other female badasses like Ellen Ripley and Teuta of Illyria? Do we want to dissect our favorite Jack-quotes for insight into her character?

That sounds like fun. I'll have to think about it as I play through ME2 again. One line that I thought was telling was when you ended her conversation about her tattoos early, she says "See? Figured you'd walk. Come back sometime". What does this mean? Why does she tell you to come back later when you prove her suspicions that you don't really care? In contrast, if you hear her out, then afterwards she says "Maybe we'll talk later. Maybe not". Ignore the fact that it's largely a game mechanic.

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...
A few days ago you were wondering if there was an alternate Jack romance, well I can confirm what we expected, that there is not one. I went with all the allowable renegade choices, while also killing Aresh.

So, the crying, the hugging, the "you're right that I need..."? For renegade? Now I need to try it so it makes more sense.

I was confused because someone was debating that the paragon love scene probably didn't involve sex and the renegade love scene was "probably sex", which made me think it wasn't the casual option because that seemed like an absolute "yes". Also, I think kumquats likes the renegade scene which makes me confused as of now.

Also, my thanks to you and Batlass for posting the epic art, I count five pieces that are new to me.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 25 juin 2011 - 12:32 .

[punchbag]

@JakeMacDon

I think that sculpture influenced her design as well. I think Jack was designed off of a variety of individuals (real or otherwise). I also think she was modeled intentionally to slightly resemble Courtney Taylor. But I base all of this on nothing founded. Obviously, resembling Jack doesn't prove that there is any relation whatsoever (but it is very interesting to speculate).

I also think there is no such thing as an artistic depiction of a fictional character that is uninfluenced by real individuals. An artist has to know what human anatomy looks like to depict a human. Having looked in the mirror or at other people makes it impossible for any artist to create a character 100% from scratch. So even if Jack isn't modeled directly off of anyone, she's still been influenced by the physical traits (including "flaws") the artists have seen in other people and artwork. Everything is derivative to some degree (obviously not a bad thing). But whatever, that's just me pointing out the inaccuracy in claims of 100% originality (100% originality does not exist... unless you're some form of deity).

@Jake and Slurms

I'm not upset with either of you. I'm rather laid back and I understand both of your points of view well enough. So as long as there are no more "last words" and we put this all behind us, I won't lose any respect for either of you (I'll respect both of you as much as I did before the argument/debate). People often say things they immediately regret or didn't even intend, and since we can't read each others minds, there is no way of knowing each others intentions. These kind of debates are especially less suited for text chat because you can't even read body language or voice tone (unfortunately, nonverbal communication is far more effective than words). Thanks for taking the interaction to private messaging; even if it isn't resolved, please accept your misunderstandings and differences and peacefully agree to disagree where necessary (especially since this is a somewhat trivial matter).

Modifié par punchbag, 25 juin 2011 - 11:34 .