20813 réponses à ce sujet

[punchbag]

@T2hAnubis

And you can still be mostly renegade if you want as long as you're usually paragon when talking to Jack. Her romance is considered paragon.

Modifié par punchbag, 18 juillet 2011 - 09:09 .

[Ace Attorney]

punchbag wrote...

@T2hAnubis

And you can still be mostly renegade if you want as long as you're usually paragon when talking to Jack. Her romance is considered paragon.

That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

[punchbag]

T3hAnubis wrote...

punchbag wrote...

@T2hAnubis

And you can still be mostly renegade if you want as long as you're usually paragon when talking to Jack. Her romance is considered paragon.

That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

You can still do the bad boy actions with everything else. And you can still say a lot of renegade things to her, but you ultimately have to paragon her. Having sex with her at the first chance is a renegade option, but it's a test, and if you do it she won't want anything to do with you after that (because it confirms the relationship is "just about sex"). Dumping her is also a renegade option. You can basically do every renegade choice with her except for renegade sex and (of course) dumping her, and still romance her. There may be some others you can't do, but those are the two things I know you can't do.

Everything outside the relationship it doesn't matter what you do. My shep is a paragade, but almost just as much renegade as paragon. And Jack actually reponds positively to a lot of renegade actions (i.e. pushing a merc out the window and letting the "biotic god" show off his "stuff").

Modifié par punchbag, 18 juillet 2011 - 11:36 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

T3hAnubis wrote...

punchbag wrote...

@T2hAnubis

And you can still be mostly renegade if you want as long as you're usually paragon when talking to Jack. Her romance is considered paragon.

That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

It doesn't have to make sense you just have to know where to put it.

[Goat_Shepard]

T3hAnubis wrote...
That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

For me it's not as easy as "going renegade" or not. Sometimes renegade is a self-righteous prude who's only concerned with the integrity of himself and the mission, and then sometimes renegade is sarcastic or "tough love", which I like. Either way, they usually receive hilarious responses from Jack, so I pick and choose the ones I like. Sometimes paragon is compassionate and cautious, sometimes he's overly serious and sensitive, stupid, or condescending.  It's the only romance where I had to really think about what to say.

[punchbag]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...
That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

For me it's not as easy as "going renegade" or not. Sometimes renegade is a self-righteous prude who's only concerned with the integrity of himself and the mission, and then sometimes renegade is sarcastic or "tough love", which I like. Either way, they usually receive hilarious responses from Jack, so I pick and choose the ones I like. Sometimes paragon is compassionate and cautious, sometimes he's overly serious and sensitive, stupid, or condescending.  It's the only romance where I had to really think about what to say.

Which is why it's so much easier to play as a paragade/renegon.

[Goat_Shepard]

punchbag wrote...
Which is why it's so much easier to play as a paragade/renegon.

That doesn't really tell me much, except that you aren't a pure paragon or renegade.  I prefer the dungeons and dragons system.

My canon is probably Neutral Good:

"guided by his conscience and typically acts altruistically, without regard for or against Lawful precepts such as rules or tradition. A Neutral Good character has no problems with co-operating with lawful officials, but does not feel beholden to them. In the event that doing the right thing requires the bending or breaking of rules, they do not suffer the same inner conflict that a Lawful Good character would."

And I would say Jack is Chaotic Good:

"favors change for a greater good, disdains bureaucratic organizations that get in the way of social improvement, and places a high value on personal freedom, not only for oneself, but for others as well. They always intend to do the right thing, but their methods are generally disorganized and often out of alignment with the rest of society. They may create conflict in a team if they feel they are being pushed around, and often view extensive organization and planning as pointless, preferring to improvise."

To be honest, I think my canon is closer to Chaotic Good. I thought Jack would fall under one of the "Evil" alignments, but that requires lack of empathy and to have disrespect for rules and the liberties of other people.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 21 juillet 2011 - 01:21 .

[punchbag]

Oh, I just meant it's too hard to be strictly paragon or renegade because the choices sometimes suck. I was sort of adding on to your previous statement more than commenting on it (more directed toward T3hAnubis). But yeah, the dungeons and dragons system is a lot better.

[KyreneZA]

punchbag wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...
That makes no sense. She seems like the bad boy type.

For me it's not as easy as "going renegade" or not. Sometimes renegade is a self-righteous prude who's only concerned with the integrity of himself and the mission, and then sometimes renegade is sarcastic or "tough love", which I like. Either way, they usually receive hilarious responses from Jack, so I pick and choose the ones I like. Sometimes paragon is compassionate and cautious, sometimes he's overly serious and sensitive, stupid, or condescending.  It's the only romance where I had to really think about what to say.

Which is why it's so much easier to play as a paragade/renegon.

Which I suspect is the way it was intended. Going all blue/top right or all red/bottom right is silly and unrealistic.

Case in point: Jack's conversation about Murtock. My last playthrough of that was last Saturday, and I think I finally nailed it. I'm obsessive like that, often playing out a dialogue a dozen or more times, going down each path to see what the 'perfect flow' would have been in that Shepard/companion situation and given where Shepard/comapnion are in regards each other and the galaxy. I digress. My perfect Jack's Shepard Murtock conversation was a mix of renegade, neutral and paragon responses, and she still loved him after it was over.

That on the one side. I'm also obsessively casual about other conversations, letting Shepard shoot from the hip as much as possible. If s/he got pissed off, s/he'll renegade, if s/he got really pissed off s/he'll interrupt, or if s/he liked what s/he was hearing s/he'd paragon. Each response should be a direct response to the dialogue as a whole, not a paragon/neutral/renegade choice at that moment. Or worse, not a pre-determined gonna just paragon/renegade it all the time.

Anyway, long introduction for me to the ME2 Jack thread. Hello all, I'm Kyrene and I'm a Jackolyte.

[KyreneZA]

GOALISTAIR wrote...

@T3hAnubis

If you take the renegade option to sleep with Jack when she first offers, you'll lose the option to romance her. After the encounter she refuses to speak to you. so if you want to romance her you have to turn her down, and tell her you want to get to know her better. enjoy ;p!

Not quite true. You can go one renegade ("Yes yuo're into her") and then still paragon/neutral out of it when she asks you to confirm it. Or you can turn her offer down paragon/neutral straight away. As long as you walk away when she offers the casual sex, you should be on your way to a romance. Keeping the romance is a little trickier, but again as I mentioned in my post above this one, can be an equal mix of renegade/neutral/paragon choices as long as you're not purposely mean or spiteful towards her. Use the neutral option when she asks if you have feelings for her. It's more natural/fun to watch and far less creepy than the paragon one.

[KyreneZA]

One more, if y'all will indulge me. The Mirimancers seem to have "gutty's Miranda dialogue tree". Do we have something similar? Has anyone ever attempted such? Are the cheerleader/princess-worshipers one up on us again? Are they just compensating again for having a far less interesting LI? Am I trolling now? How 'bout now?

Now?

[SlottsMachine]

As far as I know that dialogue thing is exclusive to Miranda. I thought about trying to ask if it was possible to get one made for Jack, but I didn't think some of the Miridians would like that so much.

"Hey guys, I'm new here and I noticed that dialogue thing in the OP. I know its exclusive to Miranda and your probably really proud of it but could I get one made for Jack, your arch-nemesis. Thanks"

[Marblecraze]

"i like her. are we still recruiting?"
-jack

hey all, ive been away for a bit, good to see some of the same faces; Goat!

anyway, one of the reasons i haven't been checking the threads much for fear of disappointment that jack may not be a full time squad member. we don't know that she isn't yet right? that would just ruin this week. christ almighty i hope that doesn't come to fruition, id feel so incredibly cheated about all the emotional dialog i had such a deep relationship in me2. id probably and most unfortunately feel the need to go back and play a new "cannon" for myself. what the hell would be so cannon about that??!!

speaking of replaying i was doing that as i often am and did something i hadn't done before: bought jack with me on miranda's lm. after the asari at the end (i think its the end, near the end actually) comments on miranda's **** outfit jack replies:

"i like her. are we still recruiting?"

Funny

hadn't seen that quote when i quickly glanced back at some of her favorite more memorable quotes.


Marble

Modifié par Marblecraze, 26 juillet 2011 - 06:55 .

[SlottsMachine]

I think Kyrene was talking about the "online dialogue tree" that can be found at the bottom of the OP for the Miranda ME3 character thread.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 26 juillet 2011 - 11:14 .

[Goat_Shepard]

Welcome back, Marble. In truth, if our ME3 Jackontent consists of a 2 1/2 minute cameo, we still have a pretty good story arc in ME2. The same goes for every LI. Of course we want more, and I'm sure she's a "full" squaddie, but if she's not, and the cameo is legendary, then I'll be confidant that what is present in ME2 is very special.

Kyrene wrote...
Which I suspect is the way it was intended. Going all blue/top right or all red/bottom right is silly and unrealistic.

They didn't intend for us to game in black and white, but that is the reaction to the system. In order to get full renegade, some people like my brother choose EVERY renegade option, in dialogue and every interrupt, even if they don't get any points after certain conversations. I admit I play the system a lot, too, because if I'm not careful I won't have enough renegade or paragon to pass a persuasion late in the game.

Another thing I do is the "get the most dialogue possible" approach. Example:

------------
You must have met some good people, too.
Everyone wants something, and because of that, everyone is fair game.
-------------

Compared to

-------------
Sounds like you're not doing much living, at least not for yourself.
What do you know, Cerberus lapdog, military stooge? You do nothing but live for other people.
Everyone wants something, and because of that, everyone is fair game.
-------------

I'll go with the renegade option even though it brings a negative response, just because it has more dialogue.

Kyrene wrote...
Not quite true. You can go one renegade ("Yes yuo're into her") and then still paragon/neutral out of it when she asks you to confirm it.

Indeed, which I find very curious. You essentially say "yes, this is just about sex" and then say you want to get to know her first....before screwing her. What do you mean by "keeping the romance is a little trickier"? Cuz I thought nothing really changed in the romance.

And I'm also obsessive like that, going down the dialogue several times to figure out the "ideal flow" of the conversation, and I agree about those couple neutral options. "I'm not looking for that" and "You're trying to hard" receive the most conservative responses. The varying outcomes of that particular convo doesn't have any technical differences later on, obviously, but if you're actually roleplaying unlike my brother, it makes the experience dynamic.

yorkj86 wrote...

Oh. Fancy.

Indeed very fancy. "Miranda walks to her desk, flustered" Ahahahahaha it's like FF! So I can do the romance without the incessant ass shots and priggish accent. Win!

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:03 .

[KyreneZA]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

What do you mean by "keeping the romance is a little trickier"? Cuz I thought nothing really changed in the romance.

Sorry, my bad! What I meant to say is that there are plenty of opportunities after turning down that initial insta-f*ck to still screw up your chances of Jack visiting your Shepard's cabin. Plenty! What makes it even tricksier (and IMHO more realistic) is that Jack will allow certain types of renegade and/or bottom right conversation paths without losing interest, whereas others are an instant romance killer. Tough love actually works with her, whereas being a total ****** doesn't.

Compared to Tali where if you're truly a paragon of truthyness, you'd expose her father and kill any hopes of loyalty and romance dead.

[Goat_Shepard]

So, the various renegade options during her LM, you would considers those "tough love"?

Shepard: We're here to erase your past, he's part of it.
Jack: Sh!t, is this right? Will killing him fix my head?
Shepard: You're a killer Jack, it's what you do.
Jack: Yeah. *BLAM* That felt good.
Shepard: A bullet in the head solves everything.
Jack: I know that now. This place was my whole childhood, give me a minute to look around.
Shepard: We have a bomb to deploy and work to do.
Jack: Okay. Burning this place to the ground is the important part.

I know your point is that you can't fail her LM unless you skip it entirely, but I still felt like a douchebag.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:45 .

[KyreneZA]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

So, the various renegade options during her LM, you would considers those "tough love"?

Now, Goat, don't be purposely obtuse. There are oppurtunities during her LM where the 'renegade' choice (I'm not talking red choice, but rather bottom right) is tough love, just not the one you used as an example. Your example it a coonversation where a paragon/neutral path should rather be followed. At other ones (like where the party views those vid screens each time) a paragon/renegade response to her 'whining about being the worst off kid at Teltin' is equally valid.

I know your point is that you can't fail her LM unless you skip it entirely, but I still felt like a douchebag.

My point was that you can have renegade conversation choices during her LM and on the Normandy and not fail her LI. Or you could simply be callous once about Murtock for instance and bye-bye Jack LI (and that even rhymed).

[Goat_Shepard]

Kyrene wrote...
Now, Goat, don't be purposely obtuse. There are oppurtunities during her LM where the 'renegade' choice (I'm not talking red choice, but rather bottom right) is tough love, just not the one you used as an example. Your example it a coonversation where a paragon/neutral path should rather be followed. At other ones (like where the party views those vid screens each time) a paragon/renegade response to her 'whining about being the worst off kid at Teltin' is equally valid.

I chose that example because it was really the only time you could be renegade. The other renegade options during the LM are "It looks like there was a lot you didn't know", "This whole place was built to turn you into what you are", and "You couldn't have known". The only time I remember being able to give her sh!t about "whining about being the worst off kid" was after her LM, and I don't see that one as valid.

My point was that you can have renegade conversation choices during her LM and on the Normandy and not fail her LI. Or you could simply be callous once about Murtock for instance and bye-bye Jack LI (and that even rhymed).

And how's that different from, say, Garrus? Jack's is much less streamlined, and you have more freedom, but pretty much everyone has a few "renegade = break off the romance" but otherwise it seems you can be renegade and still continue. I haven't done all the romances so it's most likely not so simple.

[SlottsMachine]

Meh. I think we should retire this thread, it had a good run. We Jackolytes are the only LI fans that can claim that we have never had a thread locked on us, that's something to be proud of.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 juillet 2011 - 01:29 .

[Errationatus]

Sundown Native wrote...

I still find that funny. From someone else's point of view, I bet they thought we'd be the first to have that happen.

Turns out there was more to the following than they thought. Little similar to the character in question -- just pointing that out.

This thread could have had a thousand pages easy - if the majority of us did nothing but chat or gush.  Nothing to be ashamed of in the not doing of it.  For the most part, this thread has had quality over quantity and I'll take that anyday of the frigg'n week.

I find it odd that she's been exhausted already, however.  Most curious.  I suppose since Mondo, Epantrias and the other "leaders" of the thread have buggered off, people figure there's no point.

Alas.