20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Booglarize]

Heyalrey wrote...

I just hope there's room enough in the indie game market for Dragon Effect *and* my upcoming title, Mass Age.

Hmm... will this Mass Age of yours have a happy ending, by any chance?

[Mondo47]

Ilzairspar wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I just said it's extremely rare and that I've never seen it . What Mondo did was very good, and it wasn't exactly like a fanfic with all the, "And the wind blowing like a warm summer night," crap. It was just a well thought out conversation between two characters. Not some overdramatic soap opera. I really liked it.

Aw I'm just joking around.  Though I admit that Mond's humorous 'scenes' are much better than a lot of fanfiction I've read out there.

Y'all makin' me blush here

No, in all seriousness, I'm a frustrated writer... I've flirted with things over the years, won a couple of very small-time writing contests, but I suffer from a seriously over-active imagination. I had an idea for a suitably epic fantasy story a couple of months back; shelved due to real-life and the terrible fact that the more I dreamed up, the bigger it got and the scarier it got. And I had about three other ideas that seemed more interesting along the way. I'll go back to it eventually. I had one that would make a ****ing amazing short story while I was writing that bit of script - but I don't think anyone else would find it interesting (what if the Prince never woke up Sleeping Beauty and ran off with the Bad Fairy - and it would soooo not be for kids... full on Attack of the Supernatural Cougar ). I don't know how pro writers do it sometimes... it's got to be like having a mental disorder.

Bioware's lot do a sterling job, considering the writer's craft has to be semi-dismantled to fit around the mechanics of a game. It's got to be as though you write something, then some other guy comes in, rips it into bits to stick some clanking mechanical skeleton underneath it, and then you have to stitch it all back together and then hope it works when the player imbues the monster with life. I envy them and I'm kinda in awe of them at the same time. Though I think if you are given enough to connect with, writing someone else's characters in a way that still works is a bit easier... I think it surpresses my OTT gene at the very least

We might pick holes in their writing in here (I don't mean specifically here, I mean the forum in general) but what they've built into the story of this game has enough depth that it can inspire people into debate at least, so regardless of cynical leanings, it has to function on some level. And I think I can write these weird little musings for a while yet because of that.

Good job, Bioware. Geif job plx

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 wrote...

We might pick holes in their writing in here (I don't mean specifically here, I mean the forum in general) but what they've built into the story of this game has enough depth that it can inspire people into debate at least, so regardless of cynical leanings, it has to function on some level. And I think I can write these weird little musings for a while yet because of that.

That's true. One of the reasons I pick BioWare games apart is because I love them. With lesser games, I generally don't even bother criticizing. 

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

We might pick holes in their writing in here (I don't mean specifically here, I mean the forum in general) but what they've built into the story of this game has enough depth that it can inspire people into debate at least, so regardless of cynical leanings, it has to function on some level. And I think I can write these weird little musings for a while yet because of that.

That's true. One of the reasons I pick BioWare games apart is because I love them. With lesser games, I generally don't even bother criticizing. 

Why do you think I got so butthurt about lying to a nonexistant bisexual woman because I had to save a nonexistant world?

The last game I bought the nearest I got to critique was "It was a good laugh. I liked Coach best."

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

We might pick holes in their writing in here (I don't mean specifically here, I mean the forum in general) but what they've built into the story of this game has enough depth that it can inspire people into debate at least, so regardless of cynical leanings, it has to function on some level. And I think I can write these weird little musings for a while yet because of that.

That's true. One of the reasons I pick BioWare games apart is because I love them. With lesser games, I generally don't even bother criticizing. 

Ya I tend to be extra critical with Mass Effect games because I want them to be the best they can be. I made a thread a long time ago in the old BioWare forums about how I would not buy ME2 if it didn't have NG+ mode, because at first BioWare didn't plan on having NG+ mode in ME2 and I was really bummed, but in actuality I very much intended to buy the game even if it didn't have NG+ mode. I was being harsh because I just wanted ME2 to be the best it could be. The thread got pretty big and it had a lot of long posts and there was quite the heated debate going on. It also had quite a few lengthy posts from some of the devs. I'd like to think my thread had at least a small part in them bringing NG+ mode back in ME2.

[axl99]

http://twitter.com/Jack_Subject0



I came across this just 5 minutes ago and realized there was a whole slew of ME characters talking to each other on twitter. Consistently. And a bunch of them have formspring.me accounts so random people can ask them questions.



This is madness I tells ya. This is pure SPAWTA.

[Booglarize]

Hah, good show Jackal. Between that, the Mako and the (not officially confirmed but all but assured) coming demise of the planet scanning minigame, I'd say the fans have had their fair share of victories.



You know, it's odd... I started out as a huge Dragon Age fan, but Mass Effect has really managed to win me over - and more than anything it's because of the feeling that they genuinely take what people did and didn't like into account when moving from one game to the next (even though I personally wasn't on the forums myself when most of these decisions were made).

[royceclemens]

Indeed. BioWare is at the forefront of their medium. They're the best at what they do, kinda like how Scorsese is to film or David Simon is to television. But being that good means you're gonna get called on little screw-ups.



They excel at creatng a human connection inside a classical narrative, at least relatively free of gimmicks. People can complain about combat and loot (which to me sounds like the uproar that came when Dylan went electric, but I digress) or lack of a three-act structure, but what keeps me coming back to BioWare street-date after street-date is the good company in my character's party.



This isn't to say that BioWare never makes mistakes, but it is DAMN heartening to see that all their mistakes are new ones. They could be Square Enix, who make the same mistakes over... and over... and over...

[Booglarize]

royceclemens wrote...

 People can complain about combat and loot (which to me sounds like the uproar that came when Dylan went electric, but I digress)

This is possibly the best analogy I've heard all month. So true, too. 

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

 People can complain about combat and loot (which to me sounds like the uproar that came when Dylan went electric, but I digress)

This is possibly the best analogy I've heard all month. So true, too. 

That is a goodie (though I was always that much more of a Lou Reed fan myself to care about Dylan though this cover of one of Bob's best always has me in tears when I hear it, so he must have been onto something).

I can semi-understand the loot thing, but it took so much time to manage... I was sick of having to turn things into omni-gel because I was carrying so much crap around the place, or having to spend half an hour making sure I only sold the crap I didn't want. I'm normally one to pooh-pooh streamlining of game mechanics, but it works in ME2.

And why would we want to slap an Ursa VII on Jack? I mean, seriously...

The nipple-halter rocks!

Modifié par Mondo47, 18 mars 2010 - 03:35 .

[royceclemens]

Mondo47 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

 People can complain about combat and loot (which to me sounds like the uproar that came when Dylan went electric, but I digress)

This is possibly the best analogy I've heard all month. So true, too. 

That is a goodie (though I was always that much more of a Lou Reed fan myself to care about Dylan though this cover of one of Bob's best always has me in tears when I hear it, so he must have been onto something).

I can semi-understand the loot thing, but it took so much time to manage... I was sick of having to turn things into omni-gel because I was carrying so much crap around the place, or having to spend half an hour making sure I only sold the crap I didn't want. I'm normally one to pooh-pooh streamlining of game mechanics, but it works in ME2.

And why would we want to slap an Ursa VII on Jack? I mean, seriously...

The nipple-halter rocks!

For a second there, my greatest fear was that you were gonna link the My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row, and I'd have whited out with rage (that song is a privilege, not a right).  But kudos to the Hawkins Save.

But yeah, I tire of people who confuse "menu shuffling" with "gameplay."  Even more of the folks who whine about there "being less conversation," which is utter nonsense.  Yeah, I get not having a lot of dialogue with Garrus or Tali if you're not romancing them, but dear God, do you remember that torturous lap around the Normandy after every central mission in ME1 that took THE BETTER PART OF AN HOUR TO DO? 

I like how they did it in ME2.  I can think to myself "Thane and Mordin want to talk, I can go see them and then get back to the game."  Five minutes and I'm out.  And they say what they're gonna say instead of burying you in backstory just to move the plot along.  I grew to hate Tali, as she plot-dumped me for half an hour about the plight of the Quarians and we hadn't even left the Citadel yet.

This time around they say more while blathering less.  And I always save Jack for last, as she's the master at that sort of thing.

[Booglarize]

royceclemens wrote...

the My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row

You know, I had no idea such a thing existed. And... I think I was better off not knowing, to be honest.

[BobbyTheI]

royceclemens wrote...

This time around they say more while blathering less.  And I always save Jack for last, as she's the master at that sort of thing.

Heh, speaking of going around talking to all the characters: the major sign of mine that I'm a Jack romancer is that no matter which staircase I end up going up, I always know which way is engineering, and which way is the exit.  No more staring at engineer or Quarian ass and quickly doing a 180 for me. 

Booglarize wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

the My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row

You know, I had no idea such a thing existed. And... I think I was better off not knowing, to be honest.

Yes, yes. One of the major missteps of the Watchmen movie, which is looking less and less good as I get distance from it. They got Rorschach right, at least.

Modifié par BobbyTheI, 18 mars 2010 - 03:58 .

[royceclemens]

BobbyTheI wrote...


Heh, speaking of going around talking to all the characters: the major sign of mine that I'm a Jack romancer is that no matter which staircase I end up going up, I always know which way is engineering, and which way is the exit.  No more staring at engineer or Quarian ass and quickly doing a 180 for me. 

There should be a list of things that every ME2 player has done by accident, and that one should be up there alongside "accidentally shooting Legion during his loyalty mission."

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

For a second there, my greatest fear was that you were gonna link the My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row, and I'd have whited out with rage (that song is a privilege, not a right).  But kudos to the Hawkins Save.

But yeah, I tire of people who confuse "menu shuffling" with "gameplay."  Even more of the folks who whine about there "being less conversation," which is utter nonsense.  Yeah, I get not having a lot of dialogue with Garrus or Tali if you're not romancing them, but dear God, do you remember that torturous lap around the Normandy after every central mission in ME1 that took THE BETTER PART OF AN HOUR TO DO? 

I like how they did it in ME2.  I can think to myself "Thane and Mordin want to talk, I can go see them and then get back to the game."  Five minutes and I'm out.  And they say what they're gonna say instead of burying you in backstory just to move the plot along.  I grew to hate Tali, as she plot-dumped me for half an hour about the plight of the Quarians and we hadn't even left the Citadel yet.

This time around they say more while blathering less.  And I always save Jack for last, as she's the master at that sort of thing.

I take it you look on the 'Mance cover with the same poisonous disdain I heap on this cover of the blinding Word Up - no red codpiece, you just ****ing fail <_<

Sometimes though, a cover is so almighty it makes the original seem painful in comparison

And just imagine how much like masturbating with a cheesegrater dialogue sequences would be with double the number of characters to talk to? I think that's why I loved Wrex so... he was short and to the point and he was cuuuute! I'm all for more dialogue with the characters, but it shouldn't be like dumping War & Peace on you in one go... Samara is a good example of breaking up large chunks of info into manageable sections, as is Mordin.

Jack is thus the new Wrex; when there's something to say, she says it and no damn more. She's just not quite as cute as Wrexy...

[Booglarize]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Yes, yes. One of the major missteps of the Watchmen movie, which is looking less and less good as I get distance from it. They got Rorschach right, at least.

Hah, I never watched that. I think I planned to once upon a time, but something came up that weekend and I ended up putting it off... forever. Seems like I chose wisely. 

Edit: Also, I have to agree re: the improvement of conversations in ME2. It felt like BioWare took a major step towards making the conversations feel fluid and realistic. I think the "dumping truckloads of information" style of conversation was something that you could maybe pull off in a game where the dialogues were just text, and not voice-acted. You generally read much faster than other people speak, so it feels much shorter. When you actually have to hear all of it, on the other hand, it does get to you.

Modifié par Booglarize, 18 mars 2010 - 04:20 .

[AliceTheGiraffe]

Jack is awesome. I love how she swears all the time (cuz I do that too)

[royceclemens]

You know, Mondo, I think Elton John's entire life was just a journey to wear that gladiator get-up.



And I think that all the grievances about the limited conversation is a testament to how well BioWare succeeded. I think this is the most interesting, multifaceted group of misfits that BioWare's had in a game at least since KOTOR. No amount of conversation would have been enough. Hell, Zaeed's more interesting than most of the folks in what pass for RPGs these days, and he speaks in monologue.

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Yes, yes. One of the major missteps of the Watchmen movie, which is looking less and less good as I get distance from it. They got Rorschach right, at least.

Hah, I never watched that. I think I planned to once upon a time, but something came up that weekend and I ended up putting it off... forever. Seems like I chose wisely. 

I don't know, I'm a big fan of the book (I've been reading Alan Moore since I was wee and didn't know that all those Tharg's Future Shocks stories he did in 2000AD were warping my infant brain), and I thought the movie wasn't as dire as every other Alan Moore adaption has been. Ok, I almost forgive League because I have a thing for Edward Hyde and his foul mouth (and the foul rest of him), but Watchmen could have been truly dire, as it was it was visually nice, some of the cast managed to carry their characters well (yes, I'm looking at Rorschach, The Comedian and Dr Manhattan in particular), and only fell short of the book's greatness by a few feet. Granted, it did kinda plummet twelve stories onto concrete then, but it did better than I had hoped.

royceclemens wrote...

And I think that all the grievances
about the limited conversation is a testament to how well BioWare
succeeded. I think this is the most interesting, multifaceted group of
misfits that BioWare's had in a game at least since KOTOR. No amount of
conversation would have been enough.

That just gave me a brainwave... what if your LI became a part of your quarters? No not like that... I'm meaning what if they effected the loft's enviroment, even when they weren't there, so Shep would go in to change armour say, and if your Shep was romancing Tali, there might be some tools and spare parts on Shepard's desk. If you romanced Garrus, he might have left his rifle on the sofa. Thane might have left a holo on a surface that popped into life when Shep passed by it. Kelly would probably leave aromatherapy candles everywhere... you get the idea?

So with Jack, there would have to be a tabletop full of empty liquor bottles, the bed would be permanantly unmade, all the ship models would be damaged, and the fishtank would be fractured

Modifié par Mondo47, 18 mars 2010 - 04:31 .

[Occams Razor 17]

Mondo47 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Yes, yes. One of the major missteps of the Watchmen movie, which is looking less and less good as I get distance from it. They got Rorschach right, at least.

Hah, I never watched that. I think I planned to once upon a time, but something came up that weekend and I ended up putting it off... forever. Seems like I chose wisely. 

I don't know, I'm a big fan of the book (I've been reading Alan Moore since I was wee and didn't know that all those Tharg's Future Shocks stories he did in 2000AD were warping my infant brain), and I thought the movie wasn't as dire as every other Alan Moore adaption has been. Ok, I almost forgive League because I have a thing for Edward Hyde and his foul mouth (and the foul rest of him), but Watchmen could have been truly dire, as it was it was visually nice, some of the cast managed to carry their characters well (yes, I'm looking at Rorschach, The Comedian and Dr Manhattan in particular), and only fell short of the book's greatness by a few feet. Granted, it did kinda plummet twelve stories onto concrete then, but it did better than I had hoped.

What did you think of the adaptation of V for Vendetta?

[BobbyTheI]

Mondo47 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

Yes, yes. One of the major missteps of the Watchmen movie, which is looking less and less good as I get distance from it. They got Rorschach right, at least.

Hah, I never watched that. I think I planned to once upon a time, but something came up that weekend and I ended up putting it off... forever. Seems like I chose wisely. 

I don't know, I'm a big fan of the book (I've been reading Alan Moore since I was wee and didn't know that all those Tharg's Future Shocks stories he did in 2000AD were warping my infant brain), and I thought the movie wasn't as dire as every other Alan Moore adaption has been. Ok, I almost forgive League because I have a thing for Edward Hyde and his foul mouth (and the foul rest of him), but Watchmen could have been truly dire, as it was it was visually nice, some of the cast managed to carry their characters well (yes, I'm looking at Rorschach, The Comedian and Dr Manhattan in particular), and only fell short of the book's greatness by a few feet. Granted, it did kinda plummet twelve stories onto concrete then, but it did better than I had hoped.

I remember that I was an apologist for the ending before the movie came out (Yeah, I'm one of those people who can't resist spoiling himself about stuff like that), and I can almost see how it kinda made sense.  But I don't think it had the same impact as the comic book ending did.  Mostly I was disappointed because the first thing I thought when I heard they were finally going to make a movie was, "Man, oh, man, I can't wait to see how they do all those dead people in NYC, to see that in film form is going to be so shocking and mind-blowing."  And what do we get?  No bodies, big smoking crater.  Boo.

That, plus some of the disastrous miscasting (even Matthew Goode is saying now that he was completely wrong for Ozymandias, and it's hard to disagree) made it less of what it could be.  In the end, it was just an above-average superhero flick.

Oh, and speaking of covers, best cover of all time. Which, coincidentally, was also in Watchmen. It's like the filmmakers said, "Hey, I know! Let's get the absolute BEST Dylan cover, and the absolute WORST Dylan cover, and compare and contrast!" 

(You see, this is the Jack thread for you. Even when we get off-topic, we're still having long, thoughtful discussions. This is why I love this thread.)  

Modifié par BobbyTheI, 18 mars 2010 - 04:26 .

[MHRazer]

Off the current topic but I have to mention it:



My favorite Jack line in the game might be the "So **** you, and thanks for asking" she gives you after one of the conversations. I think it sums her up quite nicely. Starts off with an insult, but gets to the gooey center after that

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 wrote...



I don't know, I'm a big fan of the book (I've been reading Alan Moore since I was wee and didn't know that all those Tharg's Future Shocks stories he did in 2000AD were warping my infant brain), and I thought the movie wasn't as dire as every other Alan Moore adaption has been.

Ah. It seemed alright enough from the reviews too, I guess. I'll probably check it out eventually - it's just that when a movie falls through the cracks and I end up putting it off for so long, it gets harder for me to bring myself to watch it as time goes on. Vicious circle, really. Anyway, getting back on topic...



It seems that a good bunch of us have played our fair share of role-playing games over the ages. Now, based on the fact that you're posting in this thread, I think I can make an educated guess regarding your opinion of Jack - but, how would she stack up against some of your other favoruites?

[Mondo47]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I remember that I was an apologist for the ending before the movie came out (Yeah, I'm one of those people who can't resist spoiling himself about stuff like that), and I can almost see how it kinda made sense.  But I don't think it had the same impact as the comic book ending did.  Mostly I was disappointed because the first thing I thought when I heard they were finally going to make a movie was, "Man, oh, man, I can't wait to see how they do all those dead people in NYC, to see that in film form is going to be so shocking and mind-blowing."  And what do we get?  No bodies, big smoking crater.  Boo.

That, plus some of the disastrous miscasting (even Matthew Goode is saying now that he was completely wrong for Ozymandias, and it's hard to disagree) made it less of what it could be.  In the end, it was just an above-average superhero flick.

Oh, and speaking of covers, best cover of all time. Which, coincidentally, was also in Watchmen. It's like the filmmakers said, "Hey, I know! Let's get the absolute BEST Dylan cover, and the absolute WORST Dylan cover, and compare and contrast!" 

(You see, this is the Jack thread for you. Even when we get off-topic, we're still having long, thoughtful discussions. This is why I love this thread.)  

There was no Squid (ok, there was a S.Q.I.D. but no real Squid - the Squid was a lie!) - I was heartbroken.

I think my favorite tune on the soundtrack was this. I love the way Nina always used to say performing this song would take months off her life because she poured so much of herself into it, and how she transformed a bit of Brecht into a Civil Rights war-march. Powerful ****, kids.
 

Occams Razor 17 wrote...

What did you think of the
adaptation of V for Vendetta?

I wasn't keen - I wanted more of it; more acid. I grew up in the Britain Alan Moore was trying to comment on in the book (as in Thatcher's Britain), so I wanted to see maybe more of that. It was just too watered down (like all his stuff on screen, really) and not even the legend that is John Hurt could really get me interested in it. I think that one is way too personal to me, so I can't see it any other way than the book. My fault, really.

Modifié par Mondo47, 18 mars 2010 - 04:49 .