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[Booglarize]

Ah... another day, and I find myself coming back yet again to this thread. To paraphrase Homer Simpson: "I'm a Jackaholic - I'm addicted to Jackahol!"

[Torpasia]

royceclemens wrote...

Oddly enough, if you do her loyalty mission first, she leaves off the "**** you" part.

My favorite little Jack-centric moment is where she calls Miranda out, saying she doesn't want to take orders from her before the suicide mission.

But what sells the shot isn't what Jack says. It's that Garrus is standing right next to her, shaking his head, as if to say "No, I'm not taking orders from Miranda either." Never fails to make me smile.

That's funny. I always took that to be Garrus simply shaking his head disapprovingly at Jack's attitude. As if everybody secretly thought she was being petulant. I'll have to take a look at that scene.

[procki]

Torpasia wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Oddly enough, if you do her loyalty mission first, she leaves off the "**** you" part.

My favorite little Jack-centric moment is where she calls Miranda out, saying she doesn't want to take orders from her before the suicide mission.

But what sells the shot isn't what Jack says. It's that Garrus is standing right next to her, shaking his head, as if to say "No, I'm not taking orders from Miranda either." Never fails to make me smile.

That's funny. I always took that to be Garrus simply shaking his head disapprovingly at Jack's attitude. As if everybody secretly thought she was being petulant. I'll have to take a look at that scene.

Well I just checked the audio files for that scene and there is a file of Garrus basically saying the same thing in case Jack might not be there.

[royceclemens]

Yeah, that does come after the plating incident, doesn't it?

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

There are a lot of virtues with the Tali relationship... But there's only one way to talk to her. And where's the fun in that?

I quite like Tali... I mean, her romance is perfect for her because she is a woman attempting to, to quote that guy in the VIP room, score outside of her league (at least in her mind). She thinks a Shep will only see the suit and not the woman in it, so she plays it a little light, only really semi-flirty, because she doesn't want to put too much of herself out there and risk getting her feelings stepped on. Even if that did happen, she'd still not take it too personally because she'd be heaping the issues on herself - he doesn't want to risk my health, he should be with someone less complicated, maybe its safer I never took the helmet off (I mean, come on, she's an alien, she has to at least wonder if Shep would ever find her attractive even if she is relatively humanlike under the bubble, and she's a woman, so she has a woman's insecurities). But it never goes past the basis that Tali comes into the story attracted to Shepard, so there only really can be one path, which is the one she's crafted - she's in control of it all, albeit a little shakily. You're in or you're onto the off-ramp.

Look at Miranda - she's the more assertive, more experienced version of Tali - she makes the road for Shepard, he can take it or not, and in the end she's strong enough to deal with a rejection; she's hurt, but you know she'll get over it fairly quick. The 11th hour ditching of Tali is something she'll survive too, but it'll doubtlessly take her a lot longer to get over it.

Jack's different in that she never makes a road in. Shep has to see all the ROAD CLOSED signs and just drive through them. There's no easy-in. I think that is the biggest stumbling block to people; they see no welcome mat with Jack and just don't want the hassle. Ok, this is going to come off as old-lady-patronising however I put it, but I can't say it any other way, so sorry in advance: considering the age of most guys playing the game, they can't be blamed for only liking the women that have landing lights all set up for them. A lot of them won't have had experience with complicated women. It's confusing and scary! And let's not even start on Jack's appearance... she's an acquired taste for sure. Guys get fed the same **** about what's attractive as gals, so they bring it into the game and... well, we know how it turns out. I'm bearing down on 40, so this is age and experience talking here - I think I can say my boy's in a minority saying he thinks Jack is cute (he likes goth girls too, so it's not too big a stretch).

The writers did a good job of capturing the essence of the women inside the female characters, and it's followed through in their dialogue and reactions. It's why to me Jack has the most rewarding, complicated and real romance in the game. Relationships only come with the lights, signposts and blacktop we lay for others, we choose who rides our highways, and sometimes the road needs digging out and relaying (pun kinda-not-intended ). Not everyone wants to pay for the repairs though, and you can't really blame a desire for a smooth ride in a videogame.

Modifié par Mondo47, 18 mars 2010 - 04:24 .

[Suilebhain]

As a 90/10 Paragon/Renegade, I can't help but be drawn to Jack, through all the roadblocks. Funny, because I passed up the Renegade love option, but because Miranda is interested, Jack said something to the degree of getting my mind straight before coming back, which is really a major breakthrough.

In fact, I loved it when I slugged someone and she said, "Damn, Sheppard, I could take a few lessons from YOU!" Heheh.

My next time playing through I will not attempt Miranda in order to open the door for Jack. 

Modifié par Suilebhain, 18 mars 2010 - 04:48 .

[Geth Knight]

Suilebhain wrote...

As a 90/10 Paragon/Renegade, I can't help but be drawn to Jack, through all the roadblocks. Funny, because I passed up the Renegade love option, but because Miranda is interested, Jack said something to the degree of getting my mind straight before coming back, which is really a major breakthrough.

In fact, I loved it when I slugged someone and she said, "Damn, Sheppard, I could take a few lessons from YOU!" Heheh.

My next time playing through I will not attempt Miranda in order to open the door for Jack. 

You could always choose Jack over Miranda after their loyalty missions. That would automatically close Miranda's romance option.

[Geth Knight]

Mondo47 wrote...
Jack's different in that she never makes a road in. Shep has to see all the ROAD CLOSED signs and just drive through them. There's no easy-in. I think that is the biggest stumbling block to people; they see no welcome mat with Jack and just don't want the hassle. Ok, this is going to come off as old-lady-patronising however I put it, but I can't say it any other way, so sorry in advance: considering the age of most guys playing the game, they can't be blamed for only liking the women that have landing lights all set up for them. A lot of them won't have had experience with complicated women. It's confusing and scary! And let's not even start on Jack's appearance... she's an acquired taste for sure. Guys get fed the same **** about what's attractive as gals, so they bring it into the game and... well, we know how it turns out. I'm bearing down on 40, so this is age and experience talking here - I think I can say my boy's in a minority saying he thinks Jack is cute (he likes goth girls too, so it's not too big a stretch).

Or maybe, people didn't want to waste the time weathering down Jack's defenses?

But I romanced Tali in my first playthrough. Now I'm going to romance Jack and then Miranda. Only so that I can argue about Miranda and know what I'm talking about.

[Mondo47]

Geth Knight wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Jack's different in that she never makes a road in. Shep has to see all the ROAD CLOSED signs and just drive through them. There's no easy-in. I think that is the biggest stumbling block to people; they see no welcome mat with Jack and just don't want the hassle. Ok, this is going to come off as old-lady-patronising however I put it, but I can't say it any other way, so sorry in advance: considering the age of most guys playing the game, they can't be blamed for only liking the women that have landing lights all set up for them. A lot of them won't have had experience with complicated women. It's confusing and scary! And let's not even start on Jack's appearance... she's an acquired taste for sure. Guys get fed the same **** about what's attractive as gals, so they bring it into the game and... well, we know how it turns out. I'm bearing down on 40, so this is age and experience talking here - I think I can say my boy's in a minority saying he thinks Jack is cute (he likes goth girls too, so it's not too big a stretch).

Or maybe, people didn't want to waste the time weathering down Jack's defenses?

But I romanced Tali in my first playthrough. Now I'm going to romance Jack and then Miranda. Only so that I can argue about Miranda and know what I'm talking about.

That's exactly it though - some folk don't want to put the time in, risk their suspension and all that (me and my analogies...)

[Ilzairspar]

Mondo47 wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Jack's different in that she never makes a road in. Shep has to see all the ROAD CLOSED signs and just drive through them. There's no easy-in. I think that is the biggest stumbling block to people; they see no welcome mat with Jack and just don't want the hassle. Ok, this is going to come off as old-lady-patronising however I put it, but I can't say it any other way, so sorry in advance: considering the age of most guys playing the game, they can't be blamed for only liking the women that have landing lights all set up for them. A lot of them won't have had experience with complicated women. It's confusing and scary! And let's not even start on Jack's appearance... she's an acquired taste for sure. Guys get fed the same **** about what's attractive as gals, so they bring it into the game and... well, we know how it turns out. I'm bearing down on 40, so this is age and experience talking here - I think I can say my boy's in a minority saying he thinks Jack is cute (he likes goth girls too, so it's not too big a stretch).

Or maybe, people didn't want to waste the time weathering down Jack's defenses?

But I romanced Tali in my first playthrough. Now I'm going to romance Jack and then Miranda. Only so that I can argue about Miranda and know what I'm talking about.

That's exactly it though - some folk don't want to put the time in, risk their suspension and all that (me and my analogies...)

OK my words disappeared.

your quite fond of your car analogies arn't you?

Modifié par Ilzairspar, 18 mars 2010 - 06:10 .

[royceclemens]

Geth Knight wrote...

Now I'm going to romance Jack and then Miranda. Only so that I can argue about Miranda and know what I'm talking about.

Here, lemme spoil it for you.

Shepard: Nice rack.

Miranda: I'M WORTH SOMETHING!

::Engine room::

But in all seriousness, going back to the concept of young'uns not wanting to do the legwork with Jack, am I the only one who felt the opposite?  Am I the only one who was looking for someone who wasn't going to drool all over me at the drop of a hat?  I mean, I know Shepard is supposed to be a Lothario par-excellance, but between Tali, Miranda, green asari and ready-to-go corporate cops, it just gets ridiculous.  Where does romance stop and groupie-dom begin?

Maybe this is why I'm happy Kasumi doesn't have a dialogue wheel.  One less woman in the galaxy that will slobber all over me like an idiot dog.

Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Chaos-fusion]

royceclemens wrote...

One less woman in the galaxy that will slobber all over me like an idiot dog.

Hey, don't go lumping poor drooly dogs in with Miranda. It's an insult to the furry fiends. Seriously though, I don't know about how most people think about it, but I am with you on that. I've never been a fan of playing the hero and having everyone and his dog want to throwm themselves on you.

But that could come from years of playing games with a male character that I didn't find sexy, and I'm not interested in the busty, scantily-clad bimbos that end up as lust material.

[Mondo47]

Ilzairspar wrote...

OK my words disappeared.

your quite fond of your car analogies arn't you?

I love analogies! That one nearly turned into an aircraft analogy (runways, landing strips, flying) but that one was too obvious and would have led me down the primrose path of masses of filthy puns and no-one would have taken me seriously

royceclemens wrote...

Here, lemme spoil it for you.

Shepard:
Nice rack.

Miranda: I'M WORTH SOMETHING!

::Engine room::

But in all seriousness, going back to the concept of young'uns not wanting to do the legwork with Jack, am I the only one who felt the opposite?  Am I the only one who was looking for someone who wasn't going to drool all over me at the drop of a hat?  I mean, I know Shepard is supposed to be a Lothario par-excellance, but between Tali, Miranda, green asari and ready-to-go corporate cops, it just gets ridiculous.  Where does romance stop and groupie-dom begin?

Maybe this is why I'm happy Kasumi doesn't have a dialogue wheel.  One less woman in the galaxy that will slobber all over me like an idiot dog.

Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Oh, I wasn't trying to tar everyone with one brush - not by a long way. Everyone's different, I was just trying to build a little understanding for the enemy camp while retaining a patronising air of motherly superiority

Shep is a hero though; a honest-to-God hero. To steal a line from Austin Powers "Women want him, and men want to be him." Or just reverse the sexes for a Femme-Shep. It's only natural, I guess. In fact, he should really have it worse; Shep is a media celeb, a war hero, a role model, a sex symbol (even Ugly Shep!), it would surely be something akin to (and these are just ones that appeal to my sensibilities, feel free to put your own in) Johnny Depp or Drew Barrymore saving the Earth, so it should be more like hordes of schoolgirls\\schoolboys loitering at spaceports to catch a glimpse of the Hero of the Alliance... unable to sit in a restaurant with their LI because of little Conrad Verners coming out of the woodwork... every single Khalisah Al-Jilani clone lining up to get smacked in the chops...

Shep would be running around with his helmet on all the time for a reason I guess

[Ultai]

I think that's what slowly put Tali in the #2 spot for me, from the time she got on the ship the game started throwing hints your way that to me sounded like, "Hey man that alien chic wants you, what are you waiting for?" From what Kelly said when she got on, to some of the lines on the loyalty mission. It was refreshing to come around to Jack eventually, since it took a little maneuvering on Shep's part.  

On another note, I had a dream with Jack in it last night, think I'll take a break from ME2 til the Kasumi dlc

[gneissguy2003]

Mondo47 wrote...

Ilzairspar wrote...

OK my words disappeared.

your quite fond of your car analogies arn't you?

I love analogies! That one nearly turned into an aircraft analogy (runways, landing strips, flying) but that one was too obvious and would have led me down the primrose path of masses of filthy puns and no-one would have taken me seriously

royceclemens wrote...

Here, lemme spoil it for you.

Shepard:
Nice rack.

Miranda: I'M WORTH SOMETHING!

::Engine room::

But in all seriousness, going back to the concept of young'uns not wanting to do the legwork with Jack, am I the only one who felt the opposite?  Am I the only one who was looking for someone who wasn't going to drool all over me at the drop of a hat?  I mean, I know Shepard is supposed to be a Lothario par-excellance, but between Tali, Miranda, green asari and ready-to-go corporate cops, it just gets ridiculous.  Where does romance stop and groupie-dom begin?

Maybe this is why I'm happy Kasumi doesn't have a dialogue wheel.  One less woman in the galaxy that will slobber all over me like an idiot dog.

Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Oh, I wasn't trying to tar everyone with one brush - not by a long way. Everyone's different, I was just trying to build a little understanding for the enemy camp while retaining a patronising air of motherly superiority

Shep is a hero though; a honest-to-God hero. To steal a line from Austin Powers "Women want him, and men want to be him." Or just reverse the sexes for a Femme-Shep. It's only natural, I guess. In fact, he should really have it worse; Shep is a media celeb, a war hero, a role model, a sex symbol (even Ugly Shep!), it would surely be something akin to (and these are just ones that appeal to my sensibilities, feel free to put your own in) Johnny Depp or Drew Barrymore saving the Earth, so it should be more like hordes of schoolgirls\\\\schoolboys loitering at spaceports to catch a glimpse of the Hero of the Alliance... unable to sit in a restaurant with their LI because of little Conrad Verners coming out of the woodwork... every single Khalisah Al-Jilani clone lining up to get smacked in the chops...

Shep would be running around with his helmet on all the time for a reason I guess

I'm not sure that I agree with you on that one, Mondo. I guess I just generally consider war heroes as being a completely different type of celebrity than, say, a movie star. I refer to something Jacob says during your conversations with him: how the really important stuff, the big risks and truly scary crap that guys like he and Shep deal with are rarely ever brought into the public consciousness. So while Shepard is "the hero of the Citadel", a lot of the crap he's done or been through is really only known to a few people. Also, while Shepard's name is well known, it appears that not many people necessarily know what he looks like as evidenced by some of the shop keepers on the Citadel who show surprise when they find out the guy that just walked in is some big celebrity. Obviously his image isn't being transmitted all over the place in giant posters and banners. So, not having a bunch of screaming, cheering crowds showing up everywhere he goes actually makes sense to me.

As for what Royce said, I think that's just an unfortunate side effect of time restraints on Bioware. I don't think it would have been so glaring an issue if they'd had more time to truly allow the relationships to develop in a more organic manner. I'm one of the people who believes they should have taken a more D:AO-ish approach to all the squadmate interactions so that relationships seem more nuanced. 

[royceclemens]

Oh I know you weren't trying to sequester everyone in that group, Mondo. I get that some people just might not like Jack. And hey, whatever floats your boat (or finds your lost remote). She tries hard to be unlikeable and by all accounts, for some, she succeeded. But I'd bet my American dollars to your English Euros (I'm not sure on the status of the Pound) that some of the offhand vitriol I've seen on the forum is because because Jack won't worship them like everyone else does.



Fact of the matter is, if I wanted a groupie, I'd join a band. But playing a game and confronted with LIs, I want someone who puts a dent in my Shepard's unearthly swagger. Verbal sparring matches, a foul mouth and a distaste for sham. I like a threat to my ego, as opposed to a boost. For all these reasons, Jack's the one I'm taking to endgame.

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...

Apparently the name 'Shepard' contains a subliminal cue that convinces the person hearing the name that the Shepard in question is actually extremely attractive, funny, charismatic, charming, and sensational in bed...

I bet 'Shepard' means something dirty in the asari language, as it seems every asari in the galaxy fall for him/her <_<

Modifié par Epantiras, 18 mars 2010 - 07:08 .

[Mondo47]

Ultai wrote...
On another note, I had a dream with Jack in it last night, think I'll take a break from ME2 til the Kasumi dlc

Ha! I'm forced to tell a true tale of the late, great Sid James. The incorrigable flirt that he was, he once tried the following on Barbara Winsor -

Sid: I had a dream about you last night.

Babs: Oh, did you?

Sid: Nah, you wouldn't let me.

[Chaos-fusion]

Jack fans, forgive me. I caved in and did some fanart.

[gneissguy2003]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Jack fans, forgive me. I caved in and did some fanart.

That's pretty hawt.

[royceclemens]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Jack fans, forgive me. I caved in and did some fanart.

I am born anew in your genius.

[MHRazer]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Jack fans, forgive me. I caved in and did some fanart.

I think we found Jack's next alternate costume if they do another costume pack.

[Mondo47]

MHRazer wrote...

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Jack fans, forgive me. I caved in and did some fanart.

I think we found Jack's next alternate costume if they do another costume pack.

Nothing but the nipple-halter might be a little... chilly, though

[Chaos-fusion]

Pants! I knew I'd forgot something.