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[SPARTAN-860]

Infinite ammo has one huge problem though, it just totally wrecks the tension of moments like when you have three shots left in your hand cannon and a flamethrower vorcha is about to close in on you. Ammo makes for better gameplay.



Think of it this way, if your gun overheats to EXTREMELY HIGH temperatures (4000 degs or more), how long do you thing that gun will take to cool down? The answer is an extremely long time. You (the user) cannot be harmed by this heat because the gun has a heatshield to protect the user, but the heat is enough to completely destroy the heatsink, therefore rendering it useless. A possible canon explaination as to why previous weapons did not overheat this badly is that the old guns were far weaker.



Therefore the new avenger rifle is now better than a HMWA Spectre Assault rifle with two scram rails and a high explosive ammo mod. After all, it took 30 seconds to kill a krogan on insanity with the best gun on insanity in ME 1, now it only takes a few headshots.

[neoxus299]

I'm also an RPG fan, but I did not notice so much RPG into this game, Bioware is the masters of RPG but when it comes to action games... I wish there was more stuff from ME 1 into ME2.



ME 2 feels like a good story shooter, (something like cod4andMW2) but ME 2 lost nearly all RPG elements. I still like ME 2 because of the ME universe, but ME3 should be an RPG/action game.

[Pedro Costa]

(I'll asumme you're replying to me for a lot of this post, so, if not,
my appologies before-hand)

Spell Singer wrote...

I can't recall missing a target 2 m away in ME1 even when using a sniper rifle firing from the hip. So its hard to see this is a valid complaint about the ME1 system. Generally speaking I rarely missed what I was aiming at specifically in ME1. But nothing is certain in a combat environment, there is always murphy, distraction, and any number of things to ensure that you don't hit. Hitting what you "aim" at all the time is more unrealistic.

It was a figure of speach to illustrate a point, my appologies if it seemed otherwise.(Since I had read, although not in this topic, some people complaining that you had to aim to hit instead of accuracy being determined by your character's stats)
However, to pick up on your sniper comment, at the time I played ME1 I was disappointed at the lack of bonus damage for a headshot...

Heat sinks are not an improvement lore wise since in one case you have fire discipline and now all you have is a limit on overall number of shots from a weapon that theoretically has unlimited (in the tactical combat sense) ammo. Why should I have to stop using my assault rifle and pull out my pistol when in the lore I have to just slap in another tungsten block? "Short Controlled Bursts" worked well in ME1...

Agreed, hence why I said I honestly didn't care either way. Controling my rate of fire or controling the number of clips I have left doesn't really affect me as a player. In ME lore, I *guess* one could say it was a counter to the sabotage tech, tho...

"Rock and Roll" seems to be the way to go in ME2. I don't see how going to what is nothing more than a thinly disguised ammo pick up, that originated in Doom or earlier actually adds to the game. But since in most battles heat sinks (even in situations where it makes no sense for them to be around) are common enough the issue rarely arises. It is a different mechanic and as I say above it is largely personal preference. But I very rarely overheated my weapon in ME1 and when that happened it was largely in the first part of the game after completing the game and having to get used to the shorter allowable burst length again.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it "Rock and Roll" but I definitely see where you are coming from, however, like you said, there are so many clips randomly (maybe -dare I say- illogically?) placed that it becomes a redundant point.

I miss more interaction with the squad, I want to talk to my crew more, I want to send a message to Mom, I want to visit the medical clinic on the Citadel, I want to see Emily in person, I want to do a lot more interactive things with the people around me. This is always the case but...well there is a limit and as much as I want this I can understand the game will eventually have a limit.

But still, it is a valid complaint and one I subscribe to whole-heartedly.
Especially after the game's main quest completion.

The fellow a few above this said it best, ME1 pushes a lot of people outside their comfort zone. I died about 6 or 7 times in the first encounter on Eden Prime until I figured out the controller and the system. Heck I never figured cover out till Fist's office. I was playing on the highest possible difficulty setting at this time. I spent pretty much an afternoon figuring a way (via trial and death) to rescue Liara and get past that battlemaster. I read comments by people who complain about how easy the game was (and the same complaints are there now for ME2). But speaking personally "Run and Gun" beyond being nonsensical in real life (you can't hit anything) is not a skill people with no previous experience in "shooters" are likely to have. Is it unfair to blame them for venting about this? It is like when the people who are in it for the shooter parts complain about the cut scenes, the codex entries, the story elements...or ask why is the game so short?

Hence why I said it was their right to complain, they payed for the product after all, but not in the manner I've been reading lately, with insults left and right from the "shooter camp" and the "rpg camp" (if one can -or even should- make such distinction for this particular IP)... it just doesn't seem like constructive criticism as much as it feels like whining and insult-throwing, IMO.

Heck the game has me even liking characters I thought I would want to flush out the airlock.

Here, here. I thought I wouldn't care for Thane or SuZe... but lo and behold, they are still alive and loyal. and with nothing new to say...

[SithLordExarKun]

Jaysonie wrote...

I personally think a majority of the "Complainers" are pc users, who tend to be much more extreme in there "complaining".

Yeah blame pc users, typical.

[Spell Singer]

"Darklord_PT" it wasn't directed specifically at you but was inspired by your comments. I have seen a lot of complaints about not hitting what you were aiming at and for the most part these are exaggerated. I recall shooting my way into the Cora's Den using only my pistol while the squad stayed safe in the corner (stupid gamey tactic I know) but in that case I missed something like 1 shot in 10 which is hardly worse then what I suffer now.



I don't recall many man sized targets surviving a hit from a sniper rifle in ME1 anyway. But the use of undifferentiated hit points generally means that target location is irrelevant. I don't understand the fascination people have with "head shots" or shooting the left testicle off of a krogan but "fill your boot" sums it up. And I have my sniper badge and my head hunter achievements it just isn't a big deal. I am too much a grognard...I am focused on winning battles and less interested in counting coup.



I am also guilty of exaggeration when I used "Rock and Roll"...it isn't quite "Spray and Pray" either but the existence of the heat sink mechanic encourages an over reliance on shear fire power over discipline fire tactics at least that is my feeling at the moment. I'm impressed that I've started to get back into the use of short burst of fire.



One aspect of the ME that I love is how hard the science is. Reading the codex entries is like a dream come true for me. Things which go against that feel bother me simply because hard science fiction is rare. Star Trek, Star Wars, and the vast bulk of what passes as SF in mainstream culture is, to me, thinly veiled fantasy where the whole "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" is applied liberally. Mass Effect was different it had weapons that looked like weapons, it had armour that looked like armour, it had technology that functioned within the bounds of the possible, the mass effect fields if you accept they exist function in ways that make sense, biotics as gravity manipulation actually works more or less right. So it is irksome when these heat sink things come along. Heck the people at bioware need to worry that the people who made Attack Vector: Tactical don't hit them with a law suit (or vice versa) over the close correspondence between their codex entries and the rules of the board game.



I'll admit that when these changes were first proposed I was horrified and gave up on the game since it seemed to me every last thing I liked about the game was about to be "improved" in favor of making into some "shooter." That not being a criticism of the games but just that to me no matter what Bioware did the shooter fans would complain it wasn't "shooter enough" and so what was the point? I wrote a post about this which was promptly hijacked by someone with an axe to grind against Bioware itself and I just ignored the game until shortly before Amazon delivered it and have been astounded by how much I enjoy it despite having to deal with "shooter stuff." I think I may be fighting the controller even less in ME2 then in ME1 where it was the deadliest enemy I faced.



I think people have a right to complain though I think there is a huge difference between what one can do and what one should do. I don't know about whining and insult throwing since I've missed that (not that I mind) but all I've seen is things like "its not a RPG" or "the new combat system is more intense" which both leave me cold.



In the direction of what Branewrack said I miss the Mako though originally it drove me batty, but I can live with the more detailed personal experiences of exploring. I just wish there was more interaction with the crew...joker is vastly improved and I get a kick out of the engineers. I agree with quality over quantity thing but some of it is just so ...frustrating. I spent about 30 min trying to figure out how to actually call Emily Wong and thought I could find some way to get to Dr Michael Garrus in tow. Worse was Anderson...why can't I come back and talk to him more than twice (I'm not finished my first playthru so possibly I can). This was true in both games I felt he really got short changed. Though I have to admit the first spam extranet mail really had me going...I was trying to figure out what quest this was...then it dawned on me what I was looking at and I started to laugh. It was nearly as bad as Tali saying "Tuchuka, go for the optics!" that caused me to nearly crack up in the middle of the fight...and I despise minsc and boo...I left them in a mine if memory serves.



I figured from the promo videos that I would want to get Grunt, Subject Zero, and Thane into an airlock and flush them into deep space. But Grunt surprised me, and Subject Zero I just can't avoid wanting to get those tatoos removed, get her some clothes, some hair and then get her into therapy. Not to mention away from my element zero core...



People have wish lists for ME3. I have two things that top the list. The first is I want my blues back (but this time please make sure I return my marines salutes). The second is I want to kick the "Teflon Man" through a window.

[Graunt]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

My favorite part is that the RPG fans say things like "twitch" and "FPS" without knowing what they mean. Seriously, there is more "twitch" style action in ME1 than 2 and and a TPS is much more tactical than an FPS. They throw insults and random general insults because they refuse to try out a new style of combat that isn't turn-based or based on stats.

Lol, you can't be serious.  This game is definitely more twitch than the original and it honestly doesn't matter one bit if someone mixes up TPS with FPS because the game has plenty of FPS elements to the combat.  I really don't have too many complaints with the game.  ME2 was in fact a good game, it just wasn't really a sequel to ME but almost an entirely different franchise.  The only thing that even allowed the name to work was the universe it took place in and the cut scenes.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[Khavos]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

My favorite part is that the RPG fans say things like "twitch" and "FPS" without knowing what they mean. Seriously, there is more "twitch" style action in ME1 than 2 and and a TPS is much more tactical than an FPS. They throw insults and random general insults because they refuse to try out a new style of combat that isn't turn-based or based on stats.

EDIT:  I shouldn't say "RPG fans" like that, because I' ma big RPG fan too myself, I mean, I beat each Bioware game up until now three times minimum, and I also played quite a bit of Morrowind and Oblivion.  I just aso like action games and TPS's.  I consider ME2 a true hybrid TPS/RPG

I need to jump on this as well.  I'm not at all sure why you'd think ME1 was more twitch-based, but...man.  I'm not even going to get into that.

The assertion I like is that TPS' are more "tactical" than FPS games.  If that's true - and I doubt it is - then ME2, sadly, doesn't qualify.  The only tactic you need in this game is "find cover."  I find Modern Warfare 2's gameplay much more tactical and much, much more satisfying from the shooter perspective; once you realize that 90% of the enemies in ME2 aren't going to do anything but sit at range and shoot at your cover, the game becomes ridiculous, even on Insanity.  

It's not just "hardcore RPG" fans complaining, no.  The game's a very limited RPG and an incredibly basic (I thought "mindless" would sound too harsh) TPS.  There's plenty for everyone to be dissatisfied with.