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[Demx]

Well for me, it kinda explains Hespith's Chant.

Modifié par Siradix, 07 février 2010 - 08:40 .

[Time4Tiddy]

The broodmother, while not the hardest boss, is definitely the scariest and most horrifying. In my first playthrough, I was deeply disturbed by the chant and then when you encounter her and see the codex entry, I could not stop thinking about the implications for days. It was a total surprise and so fitting with the atmosphere of the game, while it really bothers me to spend any time thinking about, I have to congratulate BW for managing to make it both so plausible and unexpected.



Personally I think that it's the relatively low number of women who survive the process that is the only saving grace. Hespith, for example, only becomes a ghoul, and while the other dwarf women were changing, according to Branka, there is only one that appears to have survived to be faced by our party. A broodmother can produce thousands of offspring - well I was nearly finished with the game before I got the 1000 darkspawn achievement, and so I just like to think that there are maybe 10-12 broodmothers in all of the Blight, and all the other poor women just flat out died.



If Wardens could easily become broodmothers I wouldn't imagine the order would allow women to undergo the ritual at all, so the other magics included must prevent that from happening. Perhaps women who would have responded negatively to the taint (become ghouls, etc.) are the ones that just die right away.

[Demx]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

The Queen reference was how they are the nominal rulers of the darkspawn races... There's 1 "Queen Bee" just like for each darkspawn race there's 1 Broodmother...
N about the mating well that's a lil impossible for the darkspawn if they are born infertile

Edit: For The Genlock's: there's 1 dwarven broodmother, the Hurlock's: 1 human broodmother, the ogre: 1 qunari broodmother, the shrieks: 1 elven broodmother...

I can only recall the ones born from broodmothers being infertile.  Otherwise, I'm not sure how more are created then, if they are all infertile.

[Thor Rand Al]

Siradix wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

The Queen reference was how they are the nominal rulers of the darkspawn races... There's 1 "Queen Bee" just like for each darkspawn race there's 1 Broodmother...
N about the mating well that's a lil impossible for the darkspawn if they are born infertile

Edit: For The Genlock's: there's 1 dwarven broodmother, the Hurlock's: 1 human broodmother, the ogre: 1 qunari broodmother, the shrieks: 1 elven broodmother...

I can only recall the ones born from broodmothers being infertile.  Otherwise, I'm not sure how more are created then, if they are all infertile.

That's the only way they can be created.... Anything else well say some of those people who died at Ostagar survived somehow n were dragged down n were tainted, they either become food or ghouls, or possibly  the women are going through the broodmother torture.  Creepy

[Dragoon001]

I case of a retreat make sure you execute all women at once. You don't want any alive fall into Darkspawn hands.

Modifié par Dragoon001, 07 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[Demx]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

The Queen reference was how they are the nominal rulers of the darkspawn races... There's 1 "Queen Bee" just like for each darkspawn race there's 1 Broodmother...
N about the mating well that's a lil impossible for the darkspawn if they are born infertile

Edit: For The Genlock's: there's 1 dwarven broodmother, the Hurlock's: 1 human broodmother, the ogre: 1 qunari broodmother, the shrieks: 1 elven broodmother...

I can only recall the ones born from broodmothers being infertile.  Otherwise, I'm not sure how more are created then, if they are all infertile.

That's the only way they can be created.... Anything else well say some of those people who died at Ostagar survived somehow n were dragged down n were tainted, they either become food or ghouls, or possibly  the women are going through the broodmother torture.  Creepy

Then that means 'the children' are born from broodmothers, gross. X_X

Modifié par Siradix, 07 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[Thor Rand Al]

Dragoon001 wrote...

I case of a retreat make sure upi execute all women at once. You don't want any alive fall into Darkspawn hands.

Not all the women become broodmother's, some of them become ghouls lol... So you got a 50-50 chance of becoming a broodmother but only if the other one has been killed, like the 1 for the dwarves.  You know they are creating another 1 if Hespeth hasn't turned.

[Thor Rand Al]

Siradix wrote...

Then that means 'the children' are born from broodmothers, gross. X_X

That is exactly what I think "the children" are... On the video clip it looks like they are hatching from eggs, the broodmother lays multiple eggs... Unless the devs have come up with a new way of how the darkspawn are being formed then I would lay money down that "the children" are the young darkspawn from the broodmother.

[Sabriana]

Tamlen was turned. So we really don't know all there is about the darkspawn.

I think the reason that there are not many women GWs is simply because it appears that women are grossly underestimated and rarely taught to be a fighter/rogue. Mages are somewhat of an exception, but it is said that there is always only 1 mage in the GWs.

Women do show up in the fighting ranks, Alistair tells my PC that he saw a picture of a female GW, and she was a templar to boot. I'm just going by the way my PCs are all marveled at (too often) because they are women/women GWs.

Even if the chance of becoming a Broodmother is the tiniest of all, my PCs will still make sure that they die. Broodmother, ghoul, turned like Tamlen, those are NOT options for them. Zevran will help them.



Note: Alistair will tell the GW about the female templar GW if not romanced. If romanced he'll just say "But none were as pretty as you."

[Feraele]

Siradix wrote...

Can someone explain this to me? If women are suppose to undergo a mutation from being exposed to the taint, how do we have female Grey Wardens?

Ahh because as a rule..female Grey Wardens do not cannabalize their team mates, family etc.

If you pay attention to what Hespith in the Deep Roads is chanting..she describes in that chant, what happens to cause the change from ie: female dwarf to broodmother.   

There is alot to it..and female Grey Wardens undergo the taint, but they are not subjected to the ritual that the darkspawn do..to corrupt "normal" female beings into broodmothers.

[Feraele]

Lenimph wrote...

Ok if your a female dalish elf, you where already tainted and would have become a broodmother if you didn't do the joining. Duncan says it will cure you, and I don't really think he was lieing about it having healing properties...

They just don't drink the darkspawn blood theres a bunch of magic and a hint of archdemon blood involved in the joining, that I imagine that is all preparation to avoid such transformations...

No..being tainted does not make a female automatically turn to broodmother. 

The darkspawn perform rituals..some of that ritual ..they spew in the female's mouth..I don't want to go into more detail, but over 8 days or so the ritual gradually gets worse, to where the female eventually ends up eating her own kind..cannabalism.   There is also reference to "rape" ..of the female by the darkspawn.

So next time you see Hespith pay attention to what she's saying.

[Feraele]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Then that means 'the children' are born from broodmothers, gross. X_X

That is exactly what I think "the children" are... On the video clip it looks like they are hatching from eggs, the broodmother lays multiple eggs... Unless the devs have come up with a new way of how the darkspawn are being formed then I would lay money down that "the children" are the young darkspawn from the broodmother.

I am wondering what race they are from...IF they come from broodmothers (The Children in Awakening) what type of being were they prior to turning into broodmothers.

The codex mentions that female qunari broodmothers, have ogre offspring, female elf broodmothers have shriek offspring, female dwarf broodmothers, have genlock offspring, female human broodmothers have hurlock offspring.

So where do these Children come from.   They look like they are part spider, part crab or something.

[draxynnus]

As I speculated earlier, they could simply be a larval form. The hatch as "children", and later metamorphise into genlocks, hurlocks, and so on depending on their ancestry.

[Feraele]

Sabriana wrote...

Tamlen was turned. So we really don't know all there is about the darkspawn.
I think the reason that there are not many women GWs is simply because it appears that women are grossly underestimated and rarely taught to be a fighter/rogue. Mages are somewhat of an exception, but it is said that there is always only 1 mage in the GWs.
Women do show up in the fighting ranks, Alistair tells my PC that he saw a picture of a female GW, and she was a templar to boot. I'm just going by the way my PCs are all marveled at (too often) because they are women/women GWs.
Even if the chance of becoming a Broodmother is the tiniest of all, my PCs will still make sure that they die. Broodmother, ghoul, turned like Tamlen, those are NOT options for them. Zevran will help them.

Note: Alistair will tell the GW about the female templar GW if not romanced. If romanced he'll just say "But none were as pretty as you."

Tamlen appeared changed..long after the episode in the cave with the mirror.    He was a shriek, but was able to communicate briefly before regressing back to his shriek nature.   

Over time and if not stopped..or if I suppose the darkspawn, do something to hasten the changeover from normal to corrupted,   I guess middle stage would be the ghoul effect, with final transformation into whatever appropriate form for that affected race.    For elves it would be shriek, if they managed to live through all that.

Some don't survive..and die before the transformation to darkspawn, from the way I understood it.

[Feraele]

draxynnus wrote...

As I speculated earlier, they could simply be a larval form. The hatch as "children", and later metamorphise into genlocks, hurlocks, and so on depending on their ancestry.

These Children, however, evolve during the time you are fighting them.   And they from what I understand don't change into hurlocks, genlocks, shrieks or ogres.    They evolve to a higher tougher form of the original "larval" form.     Which would make the fight pretty interesting..in other words you have to kill them off, before they evolve to the next stage.

[Feraele]

Lakmoots wrote...

Look...

None of us really know the specifics of this at all...

THANK GOODNESS!!

However, I personally interpreted Hespith's chant and the codex entry to mean that a Broodmother becomes more like a "hive form" and gives birth to hordes of Darkspawn through a system of self-impregnation... such as many insects.

AT NO POINT is it suggested that a Broodmother breeds with Darkspawn... it just says give birth.

It could just as easily be Haemaphroditic (ugh sp) and reproduce asexually...

Besides... the tentacles would get in the way

Um I would assume..that she is impregnated before the final transformation...Hespith does mention this...act.

[Feraele]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I think that since they have already "mastered" their taint, they can't do the transformation. There are female ghouls, not all are broodmothers. And if they transform into broodmothers, going to the deep roads as a female GW would be epically stupid.

shantisands wrote...
I don`t think that all female wardens become brood-mothers anymore than regular darkspawn can turn into archdemon. I think there is a process, a highly particular one, if not highly advanced. It`s kind of like saying everyone who goes to University ends up wise.

Well, regular darkspawn do become the archdemon when it's slain unless it is done by a GW <_<

The Archdemon just takes over the next souless darkspawn husk..if the Archdemon is not slain by a GW.   Thats why it needs to be accomplished by a GW.

[mousestalker]

Wild eyed speculation: What if the Chantry version is wrong? It sounds crazy to doubt the Chantry, but what if there were an earlier form of Darkspawn? The Dwarves uncovered that primal form, which in turn used dwarven females to create Genlocks? What if the children shown in the video are that earlier form?



I'm going to take a break from speculating about this for a bit as I am thoroughly creeped out.

[svenus97]

"First day, they come and catch everyone.

Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.

Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.

Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.

Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.

Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.

Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.

Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.

Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.

Now she does feast, as she's become the beast."

To explain it: Day 1: The Darkspawn catch the survivors from the battle or take random people they find.
                        Day 2: The Darkspawn eat some of the captured people and they beat them.
                        Day 3: The Darkspawn kill most of the men.
                        Day 4: The Darkspawn are probably doing something while the captured wait and fear.
                        Day 5: The Darkspawn did what they were doing and take another giril.
                        Day 6: The Darkspawn probably beat the girl they took :"her screams we hear...".
                        Day 7: The Darkspawn did something/put something to/in her.
                        Day 8: The Darkspawn violate or "rape" the girl.
                        Day 9: The Woman "grins" and eats her kin. By saying she grins, as in laughs, she maybe did it on
                                     her own free wil, or was just going crazy.
                       Day 10: She feasts and becomes THE BROODMOTHER!


Here are some quotes from Hespith:

• She became obsessed, that is the word but it is not strong
  enough. Blessed Stone, there was nothing left in her but the Anvil. We
  tried to escape, but they found us. They took us all, turned us. The
  men, they kill... they're merciful. The women they want, to touch, to
  mold, to change until you are filled with them. They took Laryn.
  They made her eat the others, our friends. She tore off her husband's
  face and drank his blood. And while she ate, she grew. She swelled and
  turned gray and she smelled like them. They remade her in their image.
  Then she made more of them. Broodmother...
• That's where they come from. That's why they hate us...
  that's why they need us. That's why they take us.... that's why they
  feed us. But the true abomination... is not that it occurred, but that
  it was allowed. Branka... my love... The Stone has punished me, dream
  friend. I am dying of something worse than death. Betrayal.

The lines that are lined are about the transformation into the Broodmother. The ones that are not talk about Branka's obsession with the Anvil of the Void and how she betrayed them and allowed the Broodmother transformation.

Well thats the best I could explain it:) Hope it's clearer now.:happy:

[Sabriana]

*Goes away from this thread, because Svenus' post really creeped her out*

[svenus97]

svenus97 wrote...

"



Here are some quotes from Hespith:

• She became obsessed, that is the word but it is not strong
  enough. Blessed Stone, there was nothing left in her but the Anvil. We
  tried to escape, but they found us. They took us all, turned us. The
  men, they kill... they're merciful. The women they want, to touch, to
  mold, to change until you are filled with them. They took Laryn.
  They made her eat the others, our friends. She tore off her husband's
  face and drank his blood. And while she ate, she grew. She swelled and
  turned gray and she smelled like them. They remade her in their image.
  Then she made more of them. Broodmother...
• That's where they come from. That's why they hate us...
  that's why they need us. That's why they take us.... that's why they
  feed us. But the true abomination... is not that it occurred, but that
  it was allowed. Branka... my love... The Stone has punished me, dream
  friend. I am dying of something worse than death. Betrayal.

[i]

Laryn is the Broodmother you fight by the way. Hespith describes her transformation in the quotes up there:)

[svenus97]

Sabriana wrote...

*Goes away from this thread, because Svenus' post really creeped her out*

Come back!

[Loerwyn]

Time4Tiddy wrote...
Personally I think that it's the relatively low number of women who survive the process that is the only saving grace. Hespith, for example, only becomes a ghoul, and while the other dwarf women were changing, according to Branka, there is only one that appears to have survived to be faced by our party. A broodmother can produce thousands of offspring - well I was nearly finished with the game before I got the 1000 darkspawn achievement, and so I just like to think that there are maybe 10-12 broodmothers in all of the Blight, and all the other poor women just flat out died.

Apologies for being incredibly pedantic, but there would be more than ~12000 Darkspawn. Dragon Age: Origins is a game, and as such there are limits. Everything in game will be scaled down to some degree (Denerim's market is quite pathetic, really, for a capital city), and as part of that you'll see a lot less enemies than there would be if it was actually happening. Gotta remember DA:O takes place over the course of a year, roughly, and that's a lot of time for Darkspawn to propagate and increase in numbers.

[draxynnus]

The interesting thing is that on the fifth day, Hespith says it's another girl's turn. Implies that there was another girl before Laryn that Hespith doesn't specifically mention - possibly one they were initially trying to turn into a broodmother on the 4th day, but which failed for whatever reason.

[Feraele]

svenus97 wrote...

"First day, they come and catch everyone.

Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.

Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.

Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.

Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.

Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.

Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.

Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.

Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.

Now she does feast, as she's become the beast."

To explain it: Day 1: The Darkspawn catch the survivors from the battle or take random people they find.
                        Day 2: The Darkspawn eat some of the captured people and they beat them.
                        Day 3: The Darkspawn kill most of the men.
                        Day 4: The Darkspawn are probably doing something while the captured wait and fear.
                        Day 5: The Darkspawn did what they were doing and take another giril.
                        Day 6: The Darkspawn probably beat the girl they took :"her screams we hear...".
                        Day 7: The Darkspawn did something/put something to/in her.
                        Day 8: The Darkspawn violate or "rape" the girl.
                        Day 9: The Woman "grins" and eats her kin. By saying she grins, as in laughs, she maybe did it on
                                     her own free wil, or was just going crazy.
                       Day 10: She feasts and becomes THE BROODMOTHER!


Here are some quotes from Hespith:

• She became obsessed, that is the word but it is not strong
  enough. Blessed Stone, there was nothing left in her but the Anvil. We
  tried to escape, but they found us. They took us all, turned us. The
  men, they kill... they're merciful. The women they want, to touch, to
  mold, to change until you are filled with them. They took Laryn.
  They made her eat the others, our friends. She tore off her husband's
  face and drank his blood. And while she ate, she grew. She swelled and
  turned gray and she smelled like them. They remade her in their image.
  Then she made more of them. Broodmother...
  
• That's where they come from. That's why they hate us...
  that's why they need us. That's why they take us.... that's why they
  feed us. But the true abomination... is not that it occurred, but that
  it was allowed. Branka... my love... The Stone has punished me, dream
  friend. I am dying of something worse than death. Betrayal.

The lines that are lined are about the transformation into the Broodmother. The ones that are not talk about Branka's obsession with the Anvil of the Void and how she betrayed them and allowed the Broodmother transformation.

Well thats the best I could explain it:) Hope it's clearer now.:happy:

[*]I have to say this creeps me out EVERY time I play through this part.   Maybe more so because I'm female..I don't know. 
[*]But thanks for that, it explains very clearly whats going on..