73 réponses à ce sujet

[baby-bro]

Just to be clear, I still enjoy the game. IMO, it's far better than games like fable.  I absolutely love the freedom of allowing to choose what your character can do. But with that said, I could NEVER relate to any of these characters. Why? Because even though I was making the closest choices to what I'd say in that predicament, there was no emotions involve in these games, or most wrpg's in general. Say for example, if one of your supposed best friends die in the game. There isn't a display of sadness. There isn't a display of showing emotion. It's just mostly involve small talk about it and moving on to the next quest. Now I had one of my best friends die of leukemia last year, and I have no shame in saying that I cried at the funeral. We've been friends since middle school and the last thing I expected was for him to be taken away so early. Yet if your friends, close friends, or family die, your have plenty of options for an "Oh well" response, but no response to show actual sadness?

An excellent example of this is fable 1, while not a bioware game, you discover that your sister who you thought was dead is actually alive and yet you just look strangely as she talks and walk away. It's like wtf? My sister who suppose to be dead is actually alive and I'm just a staring statue?

Where's the hugs? Where is the pats on the back? Where is the arm around the shoulder. Where is happiness, sadness, anger. Quite frankly, where is the emotion? That's why I cannot get into wrpg's as much as say Final Fantasy. No offense, but Final Fantasy had more emotion in their trailer than the entire dragon age game. But all games have their weak and strong points so. If there is anything bioware can improve in future games to make created characters more relateable, that is to add the option of invoking emotion. I'm not saying that all the lines should have emotion in it. After all, not everybody wants to have a character who wants to hug a female character if say her friend npc died, but I do believe they should have that option for those that do seek more emotions in their characters and npc's.

[RangerSG]

Some players complain about this, while others *like* that their character is stoic. Part of a party-based RPG is that you give up individual reactivity to a degree for the party dynamic.



Also, jRPGs revolve around pre-determined characters. As a result, they operate on a very different mold than traditional wRPGs where the characters are player-defined. Many of us would say that we don't *want* the game choosing the emotions we should be feeling. Rather that should be something that *we* decide as the player.



I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

[Pinkleaf]

I think they are getting there, just give them time.

DAO, is the most emotional game I have played to date, I myself, hope that they continue to build upon this. I feel, the more human and warm they make the game the more success they will enjoy.



One thing I would love to see is the ability to hug, kiss and maybe slap at any time during the game, this may not effect the games outcome but would make me feel a whole lot better. :-)

[Lakmoots]

I know!!

And another thing... what up with books, man?

How can anyone relate to books when you cannot see the looks on people's faces??

It is just totally wrong...


EPIC FAIL.

[AuraofMana]

No offense, but Final Fantasy had more emotion in their trailer than the entire dragon age game.

I can't believed you just tried to compare Dragon Age with Final Fantasy. This isn't some country with 2 cities where teenagers with spiky hair go on and save the world with love and a sword bigger than the wielder. Dragon Age is a DARK FANTASY, display of emotion is rare because the color, tone, and music show the grim nature of the world. When you do a dark fantasy, displaying emotion makes the game more lively. When you show minimum emotions, it makes the experience more grim.

[Pinkleaf]

RangerSG wrote...


I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

Yes, but at the moment they don't seem to have this working quite as it should.

What facial emotion I have seen usually looks as if the character is in some degree of pain.  I am sure they will perfect this in due time.

[Mordaedil]

You mean Final Rehash the Plot from the Three First Games Fantasy?

[Sylvius the Mad]

RangerSG wrote...

I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

That would only work if we could control that facial expression.  We can't have the PC expressing emotions we don't think he should be feeling, let alone expressing.

That's one of the places where Mass Effect goes wrong - it assigns emotions to the PC without consulting the player.  I absolutely do not want that.

[baby-bro]

 It seems like some of you aren't fully understanding what I'm saying. No one is saying that everybody should be "forced" into displaying an emotion. What I'm saying is that there should be an option TO display an emotion for those that do wish to apply the emotion.

When you have comments like these.


"I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest."

"When you do a dark fantasy, displaying emotion makes the game more lively. When you show minimum emotions, it makes the experience more grim."


The key purpose of these games is to make the PC assign to what you want to be. How you can relate to the character. So as mention in the thread, some individuals don't want to be "touchy-feellly" unless it's a romance partner. That's perfectly fine, and they should have that option. But also who do want to display more emotion should "also" have that option as well. Here is a perfect Example.

Ex. Say Leliana's sister died right. So you are talking to her, and she says.

"And it's sad because I never really got to know her." 

The responses could be.

"I'm sorry for your lost."

"Get over it, Trick!"

*Hugs her* Don't worry, everything is going to be okay.

The third option is something we never have. Whenever sadness is displayed by the character. We can never say, pat Alistar on the back, place your arm around Wynne's shoulder, 

And in reverse, if someone talks to you, you don't have the option to laugh, cry, jump up and down, or whatever. Essentially put, even if it's a grim setting, and even if some players doesn't want to have emotions in their character, there are other players such as myself that do. So shouldn't we be catered too as well, ESPECIALLY since bioware main schtick is to have a game where it actually feels like you. I can't feel like myself because I can gladly say I'm not a stiff robot.

[RangerSG]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

That would only work if we could control that facial expression.  We can't have the PC expressing emotions we don't think he should be feeling, let alone expressing.

That's one of the places where Mass Effect goes wrong - it assigns emotions to the PC without consulting the player.  I absolutely do not want that.

I would say it would work in instances like the cutscene at the beginning of the Dark Night of the Couslands (not to give away spoilers here). There's certainly moments like that in thegame where the PC should express a bit more emotion.

But I agree, I simply don't want a whole lot of face-slapping, chest-thumping, fake cheer emotions. A party based RPG isn't that kind of game, period. 

[Mordaedil]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

That would only work if we could control that facial expression.  We can't have the PC expressing emotions we don't think he should be feeling, let alone expressing.

That's one of the places where Mass Effect goes wrong - it assigns emotions to the PC without consulting the player.  I absolutely do not want that.

That reminds me how Jade Empire did conversations right. When you hovered over certain options, your character's face would contort into one of three or four faces, indicating what emotions she/he was feeling. From my memory, there was anger, shock, neutral and uplifting.

Maybe I forgot one or two. Anyway, I thought that was a great way of getting "intent" across without putting words or actions into our mouths.

[baby-bro]

RangerSG wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

That would only work if we could control that facial expression.  We can't have the PC expressing emotions we don't think he should be feeling, let alone expressing.

That's one of the places where Mass Effect goes wrong - it assigns emotions to the PC without consulting the player.  I absolutely do not want that.

I would say it would work in instances like the cutscene at the beginning of the Dark Night of the Couslands (not to give away spoilers here). There's certainly moments like that in thegame where the PC should express a bit more emotion.

But I agree, I simply don't want a whole lot of face-slapping, chest-thumping, fake cheer emotions. A party based RPG isn't that kind of game, period. 

According to who, you?  If bioware doesn't want to add the "ability" to display emotions in the game, than they should drop the entire schtick of having the character suppose to represent you in the first place. Because quite frankly, it doesn't. Just because "you" don't want to display or have emotion in the game doesn't mean it shouldn't. What I'm saying and this doesn't infringe on you in anyway, is that to add emotions for those that want their characters to actually display, well emotions.  Just the option. Therefore, nobody is force. And with that, those that want their characters to be stoic, can be, and those that want their characters to have emotions, also have the option.

Modifié par baby-bro, 05 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[Dahn-Var Starcloak]

Mordaedil wrote...

That reminds me how Jade Empire did conversations right. When you hovered over certain options, your character's face would contort into one of three or four faces, indicating what emotions she/he was feeling. From my memory, there was anger, shock, neutral and uplifting.

DA doesn't have that? I haven't really noticed...

[RangerSG]

baby-bro wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

I might like a little more facial emotion from the PC, perhaps. But I don't really care to get touchy-feely with other characters, other than a romance interest.

That would only work if we could control that facial expression.  We can't have the PC expressing emotions we don't think he should be feeling, let alone expressing.

That's one of the places where Mass Effect goes wrong - it assigns emotions to the PC without consulting the player.  I absolutely do not want that.

I would say it would work in instances like the cutscene at the beginning of the Dark Night of the Couslands (not to give away spoilers here). There's certainly moments like that in thegame where the PC should express a bit more emotion.

But I agree, I simply don't want a whole lot of face-slapping, chest-thumping, fake cheer emotions. A party based RPG isn't that kind of game, period. 

According to who, you?  If bioware doesn't want to add the "ability" to display emotions in the game, than they should drop the entire schtick of having the character suppose to represent you in the first place. Because quite frankly, it doesn't. Just because "you" don't want to display or have emotion in the game doesn't mean it shouldn't. What I'm saying and this doesn't infringe on you in anyway, is that to add emotions for those that want their characters to actually display, well emotions.  Just the option. Therefore, nobody is force. And with that, those that want their characters to be stoic, can be, and those that want their characters to have emotions, also have the option.

Well first of all, the character doesn't represent YOU. The character is an avatar of a role you create in a world. It's not "you," it's "your role." There is a distinction. My characters rarely are played with my personal character traits and motivations. They are their OWN individuals. And they are individuals walking in the world the game has created. Not importing MY sensibilities into that world. So no, it's not representing "me." That isn't role-playing. That's first person action gaming. My character is a unique creation for a unique setting, like and unlike me.

Second, that's simply not what Western RPGs do. They're not based on the pre-set avatar of a JRPG that then has a pre-set/pre-loaded personality already installed. The point of the Western RPG is, just like a tabletop, YOU would supply the appropriate emotion. Not have it force-fed to you by the game. Go down the list of Western RPGs and show me one that does this back-slapping, high-fiving emotional routine. MMOs do emotes, but MMOs are an entirely different beast. It's simply not something Western Single Players RPGs do.

[Mordaedil]

Dahn-Var Starcloak wrote...

DA doesn't have that? I haven't really noticed...

The character did show reactionary emotion to what the NPC responds with, but we're kinda mute until a response is chosen.

[sylvanaerie]

I've also noticed on male avatars (doing my first runthrough as a HNM now) that he seems to scowl more than my females (It could just be my imagination). But I found the human noble to be the most expressive of the faces. I won't post spoilers but I found some situations warrenting emotions to be shown DID show them. But often ya the lack of emotions displayed I just took as you're a tough as nails person dealing with bad situations and trying to hold it together. At least thats how I RPed it in my head. Look how stoically Arnold played Conan. During a lot of scenes he was just "okay thats life lets just wade in and deal with it then move on".

[filetemon]

Sten sums it up:



* Alistair: Don't you ever talk? You know, make polite conversation just to put people at ease?

* Sten: You mean that I should remark upon the weather before I cut off a man's head?

* Alistair: ... Nevermind.



They're tough warriors, sure a bit of softness is allowed in key moments, but they are not emo kids crying for whatever sad thing happens to them, japanese RPGS consist in a bunch of kids saving the world and wasting tears when the little fairy gets smashed by a giant dong shaped robot.



And that's also the key why I stopped enjoying JRPGS since I was 12 years old, because it's not believable and compelling anymore. I get touched when a partner dies in a pool of blood and I want to rise a monument in his honor, not when Bambi's mom dies by the hunters or when my chocobo gets aids from the sexually ambiguous wizard.

[Mlai00]

Yeah I personally can't stand a lot of JRPGs, when all the characters look like they hopped off a train of teenage J-pop idols. Frankly, in fantasy Jpn, I don't think any person of good alignment is allowed to be over 25 years old.



However, that's not to say I will defend Bioware for not putting more emotion into the PC. Yes, the PC is a bit too immobile. Compare his emotional displays with those of party members. Big difference between the PC and other ppl. He's a statue.

[Althernai]

baby-bro wrote...

The third option is something we never have. Whenever sadness is displayed by the character. We can never say, pat Alistar on the back, place your arm around Wynne's shoulder

I think I understand what you are asking for, but your initial post expressed this in a very bad way. It's not that there are no emotions -- that is simply not true; there are plenty -- but that emotions are typically not expressed in a physical way. Sympathy, hatred, amusement, etc. etc. are all conveyed almost exclusively through dialog. There are a couple of exceptions (IIRC you get a "Kiss" option at some point), but they are rare.

Ideally, I would like to see the physical options as well, but you have to understand that expressing emotion through dialog requires the same resources as any other line of dialog whereas a physical expression of emotion is a small cutscene -- and quite likely a clumsy one at that if certain related cutscenes are anything to judge by. My guess is that since the engine was developed together with the game, they didn't want to spend the resources on creating and fine tuning many little cutscenes. Hopefully in the next iteration of the engine they will be able to afford a few more such displays.

[Lith Maethor]

pretty much what althernai said..



on a sidenote... i found it odd that the PC has a face of absolute shock when a certain someone is skewered in Ostagar, while most of my characters were thinking along the lines of "finally! no more whining" with varying degrees of malice and/or annoyance

[AntiChri5]

@ OP: Play ME 2.



At one point one of my freinds stumbled onto the corpse of her father and the dialouge option i chose led to me holding her for a moment while she collected herself.

[urvashi]

There are times when I'd like to see a bit more emotion from my PC. Like when playing a city elf and returning to Denerim for the first time, and finding you can't go into the Alienage at that time. You barely get to question the guard about what might be going on in there, and then you just have to go on as though you aren't concerned about your father & other family & friends in there. I would have felt a lot better about it if I could have talked about it to one of my companions, or shown some concern at least.

But even with the general lack of emotion shown in game, I have no problem relating to my characters. I fill in the gaps in my imagination if I have to: my city elf talks to his/her love interest or best friend in camp about being worried about the Alienage offscreen, as it were.

[Franpa]

Here is a very simple and likely reason for why there are very little facial expressions. The characters face can be heavily modified in various way making it hard to come up with a animation system that will look decent with all the possible variations.

My solution to that would be to restrict animated PC's to presets with only simple things like Hair Colour, Skin Tone, Eye Colour etc. being adjustable. That way you can optimize the animation model for a select few models.

Modifié par Franpa, 05 février 2010 - 01:47 .

[Spell Singer]

No emotion? That is odd I saw plenty of emotion on the NPCs faces or at least I seem to recall it even if it is just figment of my imagination. I was plenty choked up from time to time in the game, and I laughed a few times even. The trouble is that to have your character show emotion facially requires that the face be fixed as is done in FF. I doubt one which is player created would work or work properly. I don't see what the problem is with including physical actions like hugs and so forth. The ending of the noble origin would certainly involve some emotional response from anyone but a rock or you know who. But then people would say "Oh my character hated their parents.." or whatever. But north American males are culturally conditioned against both emotional displays and touching (outside of romantic or family situations) so its not really hard to understand why it is slow to enter into the game itself. It is difficult to imagine that anyone presented with some of the actions-sights-sounds-smells-etc in the game would not exhibit some reaction. There are a few cases where messily loosing your last meal seems appropriate for example. My characters were never very happy with Duncan, and frankly I had a hard time putting up with Alistair's hero worship due to the end of both the noble and mage origins.



I suspect as time goes on the situation with regards to displays of emotion will improve (to the disgust of some people I'm sure). As is pointed out there are several case of it in Mass Effect 2.