150 réponses à ce sujet

[Soruyao]

So, I've been reading several complaint threads about the adept and vanguard.   People have been saying they're too weak and their abilities suck because you have to strip defenses off enemies first.   However, I've played both and have been having a lot of fun with them, so I know that they can work well on insanity.   I was confused about this for awhile but I think I've put my finger on where the majority of these complaints are coming from.

I'm starting to think most of the balance complaints are coming from the infiltrator and possibly the soldier being too powerful.  (not sure about soldier since I haven't played it yet.)  People who play an infiltrator become accustomed to insanity mode being simple and easy, and become angry and frustrated when they play a biotic class that has a more difficult time of things.  This is understandable!

On my infiltrator run, I barely even noticed when my allies died.  I rarely had to do anything but snipe and either camo or incinerate.    On my adept and vanguard, I have to use my squad more and I genuinely notice when they die. (Especially on the adept.)

However, I'm having a lot more fun on my adept, because the game is challenging me to think tactically and make intelligent decisions about the battlefield.  Squad positioning and power use has been very important.   I was under the impression that these were all going to be important things for insanity mode.  (Keep in mind I have been specifically avoiding using warp as much as possible for this run.)

I propose that the best solution would be that on insanity, sniper rifles (especially the widow) do about 2/3 to 1/2 it's current damage to targets with shields and barriers.   It's fine for an infiltrator to be able to one shot armored weak targets because snipers are supposed to be good against armor.   

The website says that sniper rifles became less popular in citadel space because shields are more common than in the terminus systems, but if snipers can kill people through them anyway without any other attack on the shields, then this wouldn't be true.  =o

On an aside, I also think that warp should be reduced in effectiveness slightly against shields and maybe even barriers to encourage using the rest of an adepts' skillset.  Spamming warp is the most boring way to play an adept, and using other skills seems like it works just as well but is more fun.  I can vouch for this, because I have been doing just that.   (If anyone has done an insanity run as an adept as a warp spam build and enjoyed it, I'd like to hear about it, because I don't think there are any such people.)

[Wintermist]

No need for balance in a single player game anyhow Yes, Infiltrator is good, love it and leave it

[Rip The Reaper]

I think it all depends on the players style. Some classes will be easier to play with with some people and others not

[Odd Hermit]

Game doesn't have a whole lot of tactical depth regardless of what class you choose.

You can find smart ways to use charge here and there and pat yourself on the back for it, but it doesn't make it a good ability. It's fun to use but in most situations not worth using over tossing out a reave.

The main part of this game's combat is sitting behind something and popping in and out to take a few shots or use shield/armor breaking abilties.

It's a shame, since a lot of the abilities that are fun just end up being a pointless use of your CD due to armor and shields making so many enemies immune to them, and once armor/shields are depleted they're sitting ducks for anything so you don't even need to use your biotics on them.

[Taiko Roshi]

In short yes, but not as OP as the soldier. However, the most OP thing is the game is cover...

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 05 février 2010 - 11:36 .

[vhatever]

OP engineer. Haha. The generally underrated, they aren't anywhere near OP. Drone spam. It barely gets the job done on insanity.

[kotli]

Well the simple answer is its guns not the classes that are overpowered (compared to powers), this has the knock on effect of making both infiltrators and soldiers overpowered as these are the 2 gun classes (also they both get a ton of gun enhancing powers).

[banshee768]

Having only played with an Infiltrator, I can't really comment on other classes, but based on 1½ playthrough, I must agree that the Infiltrator is absurdly powerful. Or, the sniper rifle is. You can easily defeat most enemies, including the final boss. And the tactical cloak allows you to escape any dangerous situation unharmed.



It's actually more fun to use the SMG or Heavy Pistol and save the sniper rifle for bosses and the like. More of a challenge.

[Taiko Roshi]

vhatever wrote...

OP engineer. Haha. The generally underrated, they aren't anywhere near OP. Drone spam. It barely gets the job done on insanity.

lol I edited out before you posted I was thinking of another game.

[vhatever]

kotli wrote...

Well the simple answer is its guns not the classes that are overpowered (compared to powers), this has the knock on effect of making both infiltrators and soldiers overpowered as these are the 2 gun classes (also they both get a ton of gun enhancing powers).

Infiltrator is as much of a gun class as vanguard is, so no, it's not the guns. It all comes down to their unique special abilities, like rush and cloak. If you organize the classes in order of how good their special ability is, you will generally end up with the same order of which classes are the most powerful.

[themaxzero]

Too powerful is a very subjective term. A Max shield Sentinel (Adv. Training+Power Armour) is a tough cookie even on Insanity. Overload and Warp also make a big difference.



With Dragon Armour (+15% Power Damage), Power Armour (+15% Power Damage) and Raider (+15% Power Damage) you can get through with minimal gun usage (fewer ammo issues). Very safe too.

[TruBlu82]

lol, if you want to make infiltrator a challenge, never use the cloak. I've never used it, keep forgetting to in the heat of battle and I'm getting whiped constantly only playing on veteran. Then again, maybe I'm just not great at shooters, that's probly it, though I'm still having a lot of fun with this game

[EminentGeek]

I only play as an infiltrator. I tell myself I am going to try all classes but I get pulled into playing infiltrators with all my Sheps.

[UrocyonUltimata]

cant comment on adept or infiltrator but on MA1 i played soldier class only and i was run n gunning the whole way with a shotgun barely taking any damage, and now in MA2 im using vanguard ,it seems now that i have to make more tactical decisions.

[themaxzero]

To be honest I didn't really like the Inf. Just didn't suit me, relies too much on Sniper Rifles and they tend to have Ammo issues. Much prefer a Soldier for my gun Sheps.

[Soruyao]

My suspicion is that assault/sniper rifle shield/barrier penetration is almost 100% of the problem relative to biotic classes and to a lesser extent the engineer.

[bigman949]

I play infiltrator and soldier as each one has its perks, such as automatic time slowdown for sniper rifle for the infiltrator or the assault rifle for the soldier. I like them both evenly.

[BLY78NOR]

I play trough hardcore with an infiltrator and cloak is a god sent, cloak shoot someone in the face cloak run to a new position shoot someone, rinse repeat

Playing insanity with a soldier now and it much harder not sure how much of that is not having cloak or the jump in difficulty (probably a mix of both) but it definitely harder not being able to just cloak and take a easy shot. The problem with infiltrator was when your powers was down and someone got close unless you had a squad mate with pull or push you where pretty much helpless

Modifié par BLY78NOR, 05 février 2010 - 12:23 .

[rumination888]

I'd rather they cut the ammo from SRs by 20% or so. On normal/veteran, theres no ammo issue at all. On hardcore/insanity you can still take out half of the enemy force before you have to look for more ammo. And oftentimes more ammo is lying right next to you.

By reducing ammo rather than damage, SRs keep their flavor in being useful against high priority targets.

Adepts and Vanguards are easy to fix. Just remove the global cooldown from Singularity and Charge

[Northborn]

I started an infiltrator, and while the tactical cloak itself is a lot of fun, I find there are some troublesome bugs and annoyances with this class. The bigger bug is how the game zooms in when you fire a tech power while wielding your sniper rifle. Thats gotten me killed or away from cover in the past, and just unbearable to me.

Additionally, I do no like the tech effect for Incinerate. It looks like I'm a  wizard throwing a fireball, which just sucks to me, when I viewed this class as more of a Spec Ops type class. The stealthy, commando type. Not the invisible wizard class.

Oh and it bothered me greatly that enemies just automatically knew where I was when cloak wore off.

Modifié par Jep13, 05 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[Graunt]

Soruyao wrote...

So, I've been reading several complaint threads about the adept and vanguard.   People have been saying they're too weak and their abilities suck because you have to strip defenses off enemies first.   However, I've played both and have been having a lot of fun with them, so I know that they can work well on insanity.   I was confused about this for awhile but I think I've put my finger on where the majority of these complaints are coming from.

I'm starting to think most of the balance complaints are coming from the infiltrator and possibly the soldier being too powerful.  (not sure about soldier since I haven't played it yet.)  People who play an infiltrator become accustomed to insanity mode being simple and easy, and become angry and frustrated when they play a biotic class that has a more difficult time of things.  This is understandable!

That's not why at all.  People that are upset about biotics are upset because they are limited to using 1-2 abilites and only those abilities due to all of the enemies being "immune" to all but those 1-2 biotics until their blue, purple or yellow "health bars" are removed.  And in fact those defenses are essentially just that, extra health bars.  Thing is bullets work just fine on them, biotics other than those that strip defenses don't.  It's not even about killing ability either, it's the simple fact that using those abilities are not a choice, it's a requirement.  Adept gameplay changes significantly going from Veteran to Hardcore and especially Insanity.  Other classes don't have a radical shift in how you play them.

[Soruyao]

Jep13 wrote...

Oh and it bothered me greatly that enemies just automatically knew where I was when cloak wore off.

Yeah!  And even when I was hidden they magically knew that I had turned invisible.   You'd cloak behind a wall and they'd go "I'VE LOST VISUAL!"  That always did bother me a little bit.

I agree with the guy who said less ammo for the sniper would probably also solve the problem.    If the rifle is going to hit like a heavy weapon, it makes sense for it to be used sparingly.

Graunt wrote...

That's not why at all.  People that are
upset about biotics are upset because they are limited to using 1-2
abilites and only those abilities due to all of the enemies being
"immune" to all but those 1-2 biotics until their blue, purple or
yellow "health bars" are removed.  And in fact those defenses are
essentially just that, extra health bars.  Thing is bullets work just
fine on them, biotics other than those that strip defenses don't.  It's
not even about killing ability either, it's the simple fact that using
those abilities are not a choice, it's a requirement.  Adept gameplay
changes significantly going from Veteran to Hardcore and especially
Insanity.  Other classes don't have a radical shift in how you play
them.

 
Actually, that is exactly why.   Infiltrators don't have to change their strategy at all to deal with defenses because they can snipe right through them.   I was suggesting that having to change your strategy to deal with defenses is a good thing, and that maybe infiltrators should have to deal with that as well.   Thus SRs being weaker to shields/barriers would have the same effect.

Modifié par Soruyao, 05 février 2010 - 12:53 .

[FutureBoy81]

EminentGeek wrote...

I only play as an infiltrator. I tell myself I am going to try all classes but I get pulled into playing infiltrators with all my Sheps.

Infiltrator class is too addictive had the same issue on the first game, nothing quite as thrilling as sniping someones head from a distance ...

[Qario]

People actually think adept is bad? It's the most awesome class, there's a learn2play issue if you think adept is bad. Fully evolved shockwave is crazy, fully evoloved warp is awesome, pull - throw combo is probably the funniest way to kill an enemy. If you're having trouble with defence just pick jacob's barrier. Though I love infiltrator and sentinel too, but adept just a little more

[vhatever]

Qario, you might want to try to bring your l33t L2P skills to insanity, after you tire of little kiddie mode.