150 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

In some situations it helps to be an INF, in others you want to be an adept etc. etc. I should point out however that no matter your class you should get Warp Ammo.



You WILL be slaughtering your way through your enemies with it

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

The soldier classes are the most powerful in the game. They have passives that increase weapon damage and or help them shoot by slowing down time for example or becoming invisible. Weapons and ammo are more powerful than any of the "caster" powers.



Plus biotics are gimped in that most of the powers don't work until all the defenses are stripped, in which case the enemy is as good as dead anyways usually.

[Roxlimn]

Soruyao:



Having just finished my Hardcore playthrough of Infiltrator, I have to agree with you: sniping makes the game MUCH easier. Even though both Rush and Cloak are strong powers, I found the game's difficulty on all effects classes significantly lessened when I gained access to the ARs and the sniper rifles. Gaining even more powerful versions of them is just icing on the cake.



To improve gameplay on Hardcore and Insanity, I think it'll be good to follow your suggested changes: drastically reduce damage to Shields and Barriers with Sniper Rifles. Might be good to take a look at the ARs as well.



Prior to loading up the Widow, I actually changed up guns for close combat with an Infiltrator. On Long Range combat, it was just sniper headshots the whole way. Weakening Sniper damage against Shields and Barriers on Hardcore and Insanity would have the desired effect, IMO.

[naughtypanda84]

Its a single player game, i dont think any adjustments are needed. Each class has there challenges but all of which you can overcome once you get used to the class.

[banshee768]

Personally I found the soldier far easier on Hardcore than my Infiltrator.



When you get to snipe the enemies from afar, the Infiltrator is king. No doubt about it. But the soldier has access to the sniper as well. Not as much damage, granted, but he can still easily get the job done. The trouble the Infiltrator has, is when the enemy gets too close. Varren, krogan, robot dogs and husks are the typical offenders. The soldier can change to shotgun or assault rifle and deal with them no problem. And he has guaranteed access to ammo that is effective against that type of enemy. The infiltrator doesn't have this luxury. Sure, he can cloak, but that won't last forever and it could happen to be on cooldown. The margin for error is much smaller.



Anyhow, if you feel the Widow is overpowered, don't take it. Go for shotgun or assault rifle instead.

[jalford1980]

refulgentshadow101 wrote...

I myself believe the adept is overpowered, in adept hands (see what i did there? ). Despite the fact that enemies' protection has to be stripped before an adept can harness its powers to their full potential, singularity maxed out is formidable. Even enemies who are armoured or wreathed in shields or barriers can be locked down by this ability. Funnel enemies through doors or chokepoints in order to encompass as many enemies as possible in its radius. Then unleash unstable warp or area overloard with your allies, and an immense group of enemies will be stripped of their shield/barriers/armor. This will leave them susceptible to further gunfire or biotic onslaughts. This tactic works especially well on melee enemies such as husks who can easily overwhelm and flank you, as you can lock down whole groups in one singularity. You can also effectively root such enemies as harbringers (damn you!!) by using singularity over and over.

Im not trying to put you down or anything, i just want to point out that the strategy you just sugested doesnt work on insanity.  Even the husks are armored at that point making singularity worthless. 

That is the problem that noone seems to understand, i cant remember any targets that didnt have defenses in insanity.  My first playthrough was an adept.  I played on normal.  LOVED IT!!  was throwing singularities around, blowing them up with warp, etc.  Then i started my second playthrough and bumped it up to insanity.  I quickly leanred just what everyone was talking about.

So i made an infiltrator and started insanity.  Again, i quicly leanred what everyone was talking about.  Headshot, headshot, headshot.  On top of that, my other abilities were very good.  Incinerate armor, cloack for ded, hack synthetics, disrupter ammo on shields, cryo ammo sucked but thats it.  And i didnt even have to worry about abilities until i ran out of ammo for the SR.

The problem is not that a biotic cant get through it, the problem is that of all the classes, all of their abilities excpet one are uselss untill def are down.  And considering that many of their abilities are about control of the battlefield, it kinda makes the class pointless. 

The only biotic user i bring with me anymore is miranda cause she has the only biotic worth using.....warp.

You cant pull, you cant throw, you cant singulairty against targets with def, they do not work.  You cant even set up a singularity bomb properly.  All you can use is warp and if you took it, reave.

most classes have 1 or 2 ability that cant be used on 1type of def, but usually works on another type.  The biotic has 3-4 abilities that cant be used on ANY def( i never used shockwave so i cant comment on it).  Heres a little chart to draw the picture for everyone not getting it.

class:              ability:                     nulified by:               works against:
-adept:             -pull                        -all def                        -none
                         -throw                     -all def                        -none
                         -singularity             -all def                       -none
                         -warp                      -shield                        -barrier and armor
                 **** -shockwave            -all def (im not even sure on this as i didnt use my self(based off descritpion)

engineer:        -incinerate             -shield,barrier          -armor
                         -cryoblast                -all def                       -none
                         -combat drone       -armor,barrier         -shield       (can be upgraded to work on all defenses)
                         -AI Hacking              -non attack skill, works on synthetics
                         -overload                -armor, barrier         -shield

soldier:          -concussive shot      -armor, shield       -barrier
                        -adrenaline rush       non attack skill, can always be used
                        -disrupter ammo      -armor, barrier       -shield
                        -cryo ammo               -all def                     -none
                        -incendiary ammo    -shield, barrier      -armor              

No point in going over all classes here.  Here are your pure classes.  The adept is the only class that has 3-4 abilities completly nulified by def.  Soldiers have 1 with cryo ammo, and engineers have 1 with cryoblast.

So noone is asking for balancing here, those abilites work great as they are, they just need to be able to effect a certain type of def.  Why cant you throw a guy with armor on???too heavy...... doesnt work cause its not like shooting him makes him lighter.  Same with all the other abilities.

My suggestion is to make throw, pull, shockwave, and singularity nulified by shields, and barrier, but work on armor.  This way our strengths would be taking out armor, our weakness is shields, and we have 1 ability to use against barrier.  This puts the class in line with the engineer for example who is strong against shields, weak against barrier, and has 1 ability to use on armor.  see that...balance without worrying about  how much damage they do. 

Simple fix.  This would make the adpet play much more like the class they are supposed to be.

[KumoriOokami]

It's a single player game though so it really doesn't matter if it's overpowered. >_< That said, yes Infiltrator is more or less easymode. ^^

It does also come down to playstyle a bit too.  Some people are completely awesome with the vanguard as it is, there are just less of these people. ^^..

Modifié par KumoriOokami, 16 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[Atheist Peace]

jalford1980 wrote...


Im not trying to put you down or anything, i just want to point out that the strategy you just sugested doesnt work on insanity.  Even the husks are armored at that point making singularity worthless. 

Total and utter nonsense. Singularity does work on protected foes on insanity.

[Roxlimn]

Atheist Peace:



I don't believe the guy is acquainted with how to use biotic powers on the higher difficulty levels.



That's just the thing. The method of play for biotics actually undergoes a substantial increase in difficulty according to the setting. For Infiltrators, the difference is marginal. Markedly reducing Sniper damage against Shields and Barriers will make the game more interesting.

[Seblun]

Vanguard on Insanity is over powered.



We'll clear a room faster then you can get your second head shot

[vhatever]

refulgentshadow101 wrote...

I myself believe the adept is overpowered, in adept hands (see what i did there? ).

Which? The necroing or the trolling?

[Invalidcode]

Not really. It is powerful but nothing over the line. Only Soldier is way more powerful than other classes.

Vanguard on Insanity is over powered.

We'll clear a room faster then you can get your second head shot

Not that extreme but Vanguard can clean a room faster than anyone. It is a fun class to play, so fun that I have 2 Vanguards!

[Patrickblah]

the infiltrator is good but not overpowered because although the sniper is very strong you have limited ammo

[newcomplex]

Adepts need to stop warp spamming and l2p.



Seriously. Adept with dominate is hands down the most powerful thing in the game. You synergize with dominate more then any other class in the game. Stop warp spamming, stop singularity spamming, learn to play.

[vhatever]

How the hell does an adept synergize dominate better? Cause they have no other useful place to spend points after max warp and singularity? hahaha.

[gr00grams]

The only thing I could add here is;

In any game I have ever played, two skills (if present) were always over the top.
I don't say overpowerd, as they aren't by default, but they do make the games with them immensely easier;

Invisibility and Bullet Time.

Invisibility is a crutch. It is basically a 'get out of jail free' card.
Last game I played that had it before this was Borderlands. Anyone who has played that knows that the 'Siren' class was easily the best due to having this same feat; invisibility.

Soldier gets the 'bullet time' which is the other.
While not so much a free ride as invisibility, it basically allows you to nutralize any serious threat when the present themselves.

I realize it's a single player game, and I also enjoy both soldier and infliltrator, but these mechanics have always lead to dominant character classes in any game I have ever played with them. I see no difference here.

I don't think guns are the blame, as I can with adept kill overall at the same pace as my soldier or infiltrator, a lot of times with less fear, as I can just sit in cover with adept etc, more so these skills.

Any time you are in trouble, you can pop on either or, eliminate the threat or retreat to safety etc effortlessly.

In the end, it is what it is, and at least all classes are very enjoyable to play.

Cheers,

EDIT*

How the hell does an adept synergize dominate better? Cause they have no other useful place to spend points after max warp and singularity? hahaha.

Do watch vids in my sig. Adept can easily rock the house, but it's not the point of this thread.

Modifié par gr00grams, 16 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[vhatever]

Not sure what that vid shows but not any synergy with dominate.

Modifié par vhatever, 16 février 2010 - 11:18 .

[newcomplex]

vhatever wrote...

How the hell does an adept synergize dominate better? Cause they have no other useful place to spend points after max warp and singularity? hahaha.

Because casting -anything- for a soldier is a loss of damage once you have a vindicator, your always better just mowing them down, then casting stuff for kicks.     Infiltrators snipe people out and go back and cover.     Engineers have drone already, so they would benefit more from warp ammo.     Sentinels NEED warp ammo, because their so lacking in damage.      I guess it would be viable on vanguards too.

On the other hand, the Adept excels when given the time to properly set up their powers.     Dominate is excellent for that utility.   

Watch the guy above you's video.    I could count on my hands the amount of times singularity would be the optimal choice.    

jalford1980 wrote...

refulgentshadow101 wrote...

I
myself believe the adept is overpowered, in adept hands (see what i did
there? ). Despite the fact that enemies' protection has to be
stripped before an adept can harness its powers to their full potential,
singularity maxed out is formidable. Even enemies who are armoured or
wreathed in shields or barriers can be locked down by this ability.
Funnel enemies through doors or chokepoints in order to encompass as
many enemies as possible in its radius. Then unleash unstable warp or
area overloard with your allies, and an immense group of enemies will be
stripped of their shield/barriers/armor. This will leave them
susceptible to further gunfire or biotic onslaughts. This tactic works
especially well on melee enemies such as husks who can easily overwhelm
and flank you, as you can lock down whole groups in one singularity.
You can also effectively root such enemies as harbringers (damn you!!)
by using singularity over and over.

Im not trying
to put you down or anything, i just want to point out that the strategy
you just sugested doesnt work on insanity.  Even the husks are armored
at that point making singularity worthless. 

That is the problem
that noone seems to understand, i cant remember any targets that didnt
have defenses in insanity.  My first playthrough was an adept.  I played
on normal.  LOVED IT!!  was throwing singularities around, blowing them
up with warp, etc.  Then i started my second playthrough and bumped it
up to insanity.  I quickly leanred just what everyone was talking about.

So
i made an infiltrator and started insanity.  Again, i quicly leanred
what everyone was talking about.  Headshot, headshot, headshot.  On top
of that, my other abilities were very good.  Incinerate armor, cloack
for ded, hack synthetics, disrupter ammo on shields, cryo ammo sucked
but thats it.  And i didnt even have to worry about abilities until i
ran out of ammo for the SR.

The problem is not that a biotic cant
get through it, the problem is that of all the classes, all of their
abilities excpet one are uselss untill def are down.  And considering
that many of their abilities are about control of the battlefield, it
kinda makes the class pointless. 

The only biotic user i bring
with me anymore is miranda cause she has the only biotic worth
using.....warp.

You cant pull, you cant throw, you cant
singulairty against targets with def, they do not work.  You cant even
set up a singularity bomb properly.  All you can use is warp and if you
took it, reave.

most classes have 1 or 2 ability that cant be
used on 1type of def, but usually works on another type.  The biotic has
3-4 abilities that cant be used on ANY def( i never used shockwave so i
cant comment on it).  Heres a little chart to draw the picture for
everyone not getting it.

class:              ability:
                    nulified by:               works against:
-adept:            
-pull                        -all def                        -none
                        
-throw                     -all def                        -none
                        
-singularity             -all def                       -none
                        
-warp                      -shield                        -barrier and
armor
                 **** -shockwave            -all def (im not
even sure on this as i didnt use my self(based off descritpion)

engineer:
       -incinerate             -shield,barrier          -armor
                        
-cryoblast                -all def                       -none
                        
-combat drone       -armor,barrier         -shield       (can be
upgraded to work on all defenses)
                         -AI
Hacking              -non attack skill, works on synthetics
                        
-overload                -armor, barrier         -shield

soldier:         
-concussive shot      -armor, shield       -barrier
                       
-adrenaline rush       non attack skill, can always be used
                       
-disrupter ammo      -armor, barrier       -shield
                       
-cryo ammo               -all def                     -none
                       
-incendiary ammo    -shield, barrier      -armor              

No
point in going over all classes here.  Here are your pure classes.  The
adept is the only class that has 3-4 abilities completly nulified by
def.  Soldiers have 1 with cryo ammo, and engineers have 1 with
cryoblast.

So noone is asking for balancing here, those abilites
work great as they are, they just need to be able to effect a certain
type of def.  Why cant you throw a guy with armor on???too heavy......
doesnt work cause its not like shooting him makes him lighter.  Same
with all the other abilities.

My suggestion is to make throw,
pull, shockwave, and singularity nulified by shields, and barrier, but
work on armor.  This way our strengths would be taking out armor, our
weakness is shields, and we have 1 ability to use against barrier.  This
puts the class in line with the engineer for example who is strong
against shields, weak against barrier, and has 1 ability to use on
armor.  see that...balance without worrying about  how much damage they
do. 

Simple fix.  This would make the adpet play much more like
the class they are supposed to be.

The adept is the
only class that can consistently instantly kill people who have no
defenses up.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 16 février 2010 - 11:26 .

[vhatever]

Dominate is better of an engineer and even a vanguard than it is for adepts. Adepts should be too busy seting up combos to be worried about dominate. I don't think it's bad for adepts, but i don't see how it's especially good for them, either.



Early game it's a good ability, same goes for all the lower tier classes, however. Again, nothing special.

[Astranagant]

Any class that doesn't have access to Assault Rifles isn't powerful enough to me.

[newcomplex]

vhatever wrote...

Dominate is better of an engineer and even a vanguard than it is for adepts. Adepts should be too busy seting up combos to be worried about dominate. I don't think it's bad for adepts, but i don't see how it's especially good for them, either.

Early game it's a good ability, same goes for all the lower tier classes, however. Again, nothing special.

The very reason adepts will set up combos is exactly WHY you should be using dominate.    Your the only class whos DPS is entirely dependent on how you use your skills, not just what skills you use.   

Dominate is terrible for engineers.    They already have a drone to meathsheild, on a 3 second timer, and incinerate/overload is the most consistent source of damage in the game.     All their skills are on relatively long CD's, 5-6 seconds for their main skills of usage, as opposed to the adepts 2-3.     They need weapon damage.

Plus, since they lack biotic buff talents, their dominate is going to last 11 seconds with 10 skill points sinked in, with a flat 5 second CD.    That lets them cast ONE skill in between dominates, with NO room for error.      The adept can hit 17 seconds with a 4 second CD.    That lets them cast 3-5 spells with margin for error.    No other class can hit that.

Its good for the vanguard I guess because it gives you a meatsheild that makes charging less suicidal.   But vanguards do fine with sheild buff too.   

Push is one of the most hard to use skills in the game.    A leve TWO push will instantly kill a basic enemy if you are able to impact him into a wall at the "peak" of the push.     Or it can do literally ~50 points of damage.    Adepts are extremely hard to play for this reason, but if your looking for optimal preformance, singularity/warp spam is not the way to go.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 16 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[vhatever]

newcomplex wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Dominate is better of an engineer and even a vanguard than it is for adepts. Adepts should be too busy seting up combos to be worried about dominate. I don't think it's bad for adepts, but i don't see how it's especially good for them, either.

Early game it's a good ability, same goes for all the lower tier classes, however. Again, nothing special.

The very reason adepts will set up combos is exactly WHY you should be using dominate.    Your the only class whos DPS is entirely dependent on how you use your skills, not just what skills you use.   

I rarely come across more meaningless paragraphs of illogical gibberish.

newcomplex wrote...
Dominate is terrible for engineers.    They already have a drone to meathsheild, on a 3 second timer, and incinerate/overload is the most consistent source of damage in the game.     All their skills are on relatively long CD's, 5-6 seconds for their main skills of usage, as opposed to the adepts 2-3.     They need weapon damage.

WTF are you talking about? Yes, drone is a meatshield. So what? Should my infiltrator not use and AR because they have a sniper rifle?? They have different uses. You don't just randomly throw them out there like a spastic retard. I don't know WTF you are talking about regarding long cooldowns. Incinerate and overload both end up around 3 second cooldow, both of which are useless against barrier, btw. So much for being he most consistent. Warp is the most consistent damage dealer in the game.

newcomplex wrote...
Plus, since they lack biotic buff talents, their dominate is going to last 11 seconds with 10 skill points sinked in, with a flat 5 second CD.    That lets them cast ONE skill in between dominates, with NO room for error.      The adept can hit 17 seconds with a 4 second CD.    That lets them cast 3-5 spells with margin for error.    No other class can hit that.

Past about 10 seconds, the duration is largely meaningless for all characters. The cooldown duration does suck more for an engineer, but that's life. I haven't seen any argument at all for why adepts synergize better with dominate. If any non-heavy enemy is still on my screen after 17 seconds, I would delete my character.

[Axeface]

No they arnt overpowered, because it simply does not matter in a SP game.

[Haasth]

Yes. They are totally OP. Each time I use my Combat Drone they just sneak away and one-shot me with their sniper rifles. No way I can win a PvP battle against them.

So I rage re-rolled and now am playing as an Infiltrator too. Got'ta stick with the flavor of the month!

Seriously though, no. I have played through the game with various classes now and my conclusion is that Infiltrator are just fine. The classes are pretty well balanced for a game that hardly needs balancing. 

Modifié par Haasth, 17 février 2010 - 12:44 .