150 réponses à ce sujet

[newcomplex]

vhatever wrote...

Now hold up there, junior. This is what everyone does after i completely destroy them in a debate. They try to change the entire argument. You go click back. I said that the viper has higher raw DPS than widow. There are all sorts of other factors to consider when you get into kill rate. Some of them favorable to the widow, others favorable to the viper, and none of them have any relevance to the earlier comment.

You said that Viper+Vindicator was "better".    It clearly isn't.      "raw" dps was a means to prove this?    Well, apparently, it hits a higher raw DPS, that isn't pratical unless you somehow miss headshots with widow or always hit headshots with a rapid fire weapon.

Also, the gap between the two weapons widen even higher then 500 damage once you get the sniper rifle damage ugprade and the sniper helmet, to 800 damage.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 17 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[vhatever]

newcomplex wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Now hold up there, junior. This is what everyone does after i completely destroy them in a debate. They try to change the entire argument. You go click back. I said that the viper has higher raw DPS than widow. There are all sorts of other factors to consider when you get into kill rate. Some of them favorable to the widow, others favorable to the viper, and none of them have any relevance to the earlier comment.

You said that Viper+Vindicator was "better".    It clearly isn't.      "raw" dps was a means to prove this?    

It certainly is. You will never have enough ammo to headshot everyone with the widow. You don't need to worry about it if you use the viper and vindicator. What tiny bit of better performance is gained by using the widow versus the viper is completely blown away by the ability to have an entire other powerful sniping weapon. And no, that was not my original comment anyway. That was a secondary comment related to early comments. Back to trying to change the argument agaian, lame.

You are just don't have the skill/talent/brain to put it all together. Tough luck, junior.

[newcomplex]

vhatever wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Now hold up there, junior. This is what everyone does after i completely destroy them in a debate. They try to change the entire argument. You go click back. I said that the viper has higher raw DPS than widow. There are all sorts of other factors to consider when you get into kill rate. Some of them favorable to the widow, others favorable to the viper, and none of them have any relevance to the earlier comment.

You said that Viper+Vindicator was "better".    It clearly isn't.      "raw" dps was a means to prove this?    

It certainly is. You will never have enough ammo to headshot everyone with the widow. You don't need to worry about it if you use the viper and vindicator. What tiny bit of better performance is gained by using the widow versus the viper is completely blown away by the ability to have an entire other powerful sniping weapon. And no, that was not my original comment anyway. That was a secondary comment related to early comments. Back to trying to change the argument agaian, lame.

You are just don't have the skill/talent/brain to put it all together. Tough luck, junior.

What?    The widow is the single most damage efficient weapon in the game, and that I can prove.     SMG is near infinite resevoir of ammo.    Viper is actually the third least efficient (next to handgun and DLC sniper), and the vindicator seems merely ok.    

Ammo efficiency is the last card you want to be pulling right now.    One shot enemies with widow, pick close by enemies with SMG, pick up ammo.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 17 février 2010 - 09:30 .

[skan5]

Assuming both rifles fire instantly (no animation time to worry about), assuming no headshots, assuming no mods, raw dps by my calculations are as follows:

Widow base damage (from the wiki) = 368.3
 Rate of Fire: 1 shot every 1.5 seconds. 60 seconds in a minute. 60 / 1.5 = 40, so 40 shots in 1 minute.
 Total damage in 1 minute: 368.3 * 40 = 14,732, or 245.533 DPS

Viper base damage (from wiki) = 81.9
 Rate of Fire: the wiki gives 240 rounds per minute, that's 4 shots every second. In 3 seconds, you lose your 12 round clip. At that point, you must reload, giving you another 1.5 seconds before being able to do a 12 round volley again. For simplicity, that's 12 rounds every 4.5 seconds. Therefore, 60 / 4.5 = 13.333. Or, you fire 12 rounds 13.333 times a minute, giving you 160 total rounds fired.
 Total damage in 1 minute: 81.9*160 = 13,104, or 218.4 DPS


Of note, if what Vhatever said is true in that the widow takes 1 second to fire (animation time), making it 1 shot every 2.5 seconds, that drops the shots fired in 1 minute to 24, total damage in 1 minute to 8,853.6 or a total of 147.56 DPS.

And I'd use the wiki's date for the Widow's RPM, but it lists only "low" so...

Please correct any math problems... 

*Leaves*

[newcomplex]

The widow does not have a one second "animation" to fire. Perhaps he means it takes 1 second after firing before you can reload, but no visible one seems to exist.      Their is certainly a slight delay, the zoom out takes less then half a second, but my shepherd always reloads immediately afterwards assuming I don't issue another movement.   

I guess wiki damage calculations make no sense then :/.   Wrong on both accounts.  

Modifié par newcomplex, 17 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[gr00grams]

Way to ruin a thread guys.

What has happened to the community here since ME1...



Anyway, no class is too powerful, or too weak.

Some just lend themselves to playstyles that many players may be better or worse at.



Lastly, bullet time and invisibility moves are always over the top.



Not everything is about damage, how fast you kill etc. Most of that talk is irrelevant.

What it comes down to, is ease of play.



i.e. Infiltrator. Mine, I don't even play as a sniper. I play it pretty much like a soldier, except I have a 'get a way free' anytime I need. I don't use cloak offensively, as I play insanity only. I use it to retreat etc, basically, anytime I'm in danger, pop on cloak and reposition to safety.



That is what makes this class easy. Any time you are threatened, you can just run away scott free.

The same is similar for soldier.



Anytime I am in trouble, I can just pop on adrenaline with -50% damage taken, and just mow said threat down. Ammo skills that it has ensure this. If I need to retreat, pop it on again and run back. I have increased storm speed and durability etc as this class, so it works very well.



All you guys talk about is dps, kill speed, etc. They are not what makes these classes easy. Pretty much any class can excel in kill speed, if you set them up right. It's irrelevant to the topic.

[skan5]

 As for an on-topic response, I've only played Soldier and some Sentinel so far in ME2 on Insanity. Not enough Sentinel to really give a comment on it, but Soldier has been fairly easy so far.
However, I must admit, I have more fun on Insanity now that I enabled powers on shielded enemies again and, at the same time, enabled enemy shields (this includes Barriers and Armor) to recharge (in 7 seconds if not hit).

At the very least, Jacob isn't as much as a dead weight to me now as he once was :innocent:

[HeavyTankZA]

Infiltrators are a fun class, finished a insanity playthrough with one, quite the challenge but alot of fun.

[vhatever]

There is some kind animation delay, and a .5 second scope time. Together that's a minimum of 1 second to fire off a shot. technically the number I used, 4.5 seconds for the viper should have been 5 seconds for similar reasons. But it doesn't change that the raw DPS viper (~200) > widow(~160).

[Soruyao]

Those calculations sound like they make sense if you're just standing on an infinite ammo pile and shooting at a wall. In reality, on insanity mode, with the viper, you're likely going to pop your head out (with cloak on so you don't die) and fire as many shots as you can off before your cloak wears off and you get chopped up by crossfire. It seems like you'll get off a good 4-5 shots and have to duck again. This would likely kill one enemy, maybe two.



With the widow, you'd likely only get one or two shots off before you have to duck again. Those shots would likely kill two enemies..



The difference is, it's much easier to lose damage with the viper due to recoil and you have to spend more time actually shooting to do the same amount of damage. You also are less restricted to use cloak when you have the widow, since a single shot tends to kill things anyway and since you only need to be out of cover for as long as it takes for you to get a reticle onto someone's head. (With the viper, you need to stay out of cover for longer in order to get those 2-4 shots you'll need to actually finish an enemy.)



As a player who would much prefer to weave shots with incinerates and shield drains, the widow is a much better choice. Of course that's mostly flavor in my case.

[Pocketgb]

"Balance does't matter in single player!"

[vhatever]

Soruyao wrote...

Those calculations sound like they make sense if you're just standing on an infinite ammo pile and shooting at a wall. In reality, on insanity mode, with the viper, you're likely going to pop your head out (with cloak on so you don't die) and fire as many shots as you can off before your cloak wears off and you get chopped up by crossfire. It seems like you'll get off a good 4-5 shots and have to duck again. This would likely kill one enemy, maybe two.

With the widow, you'd likely only get one or two shots off before you have to duck again. Those shots would likely kill two enemies..

The difference is, it's much easier to lose damage with the viper due to recoil and you have to spend more time actually shooting to do the same amount of damage. You also are less restricted to use cloak when you have the widow, since a single shot tends to kill things anyway and since you only need to be out of cover for as long as it takes for you to get a reticle onto someone's head. (With the viper, you need to stay out of cover for longer in order to get those 2-4 shots you'll need to actually finish an enemy.)

As a player who would much prefer to weave shots with incinerates and shield drains, the widow is a much better choice. Of course that's mostly flavor in my case.

You start off comparing "4-5" shots of the viper to "1-2" of the widow and expect anyone with half a brain to take your ass seriously? You think you can stand there and god damn reload a widow to fire off a second shot yet you can only fire 4-5 shots(1.25 seconds max) wiith the viper? I can get off 8-10 shots with the viper from cloak before any enemies target me. What a bunch of moronic garbage. Stop commenting on things you are obviously entirely ignorant of.

[Massadonious1]

[Turian Taurus]

No.

[Soruyao]

vhatever wrote...
You start off comparing "4-5" shots of the viper to "1-2" of the widow and expect anyone with half a brain to take your ass seriously? You think you can stand there and god damn reload a widow to fire off a second shot yet you can only fire 4-5 shots(1.25 seconds max) wiith the viper? I can get off 8-10 shots with the viper from cloak before any enemies target me. What a bunch of moronic garbage. Stop commenting on things you are obviously entirely ignorant of.

Methinks someone needs to post some videos and put their money where their mouth is.

Also, I'm suprised your childish flaming haven't gotten you banned yet.

-edit-

So what you're telling me is that you can just pop out of stealth and fire almost an entire clip without getting noticed at all, while making sure every single one of those shots is a headshot?   This bends the limits of believability to the point where I'd genuinely be entertained if you were right and I could get a video of that.

Never mind the fact that with the widow, only a small bit of my killing time has to actually be out of cover, since I can pop behind cover between shots and maintain a similar killing speed.   The viper has to actually be out of cover for the entire time or you start losing DPS.

Not that ANY of this matters, since infiltrators have a pathetically easy time of it on any difficulty mode anyway.   It's like two 3rd graders arguing about which one of them knows more calculus.   They're both passing 3rd grade.

Modifié par Soruyao, 17 février 2010 - 11:04 .

[Roxlimn]

vhatever:



I agree. A video would settle all issues beautifully.



First of all, if your purpose is to "talk smack," and to do some amount of boasting about your skill at playing FPS games, then posting a video will showcase your skill and serve your purpose admirably.



Secondly, if you are meaning to demonstrate a factual reality, nothing could be more conclusive than showing everyone the settings you have and then demonstrating the difference between Widow and Viper perforce via a video.

[RighteousRage]

Why should it make sense for the widow, for instance to do less shield damage? It even says in the codex entry that it has sufficient momentum to short out most kinetic barriers instantly, if I remember correctly. It doesn't make sense for it to be balanced with the other lesser weapons.

[Roxlimn]

RighteousRage:



The point isn't necessarily to make sense, even though it kind of does. The point is to make the Insanity level of the game somewhat more interesting for the Infiltrator than it currently is - which plays mostly like it does on lower levels, currently.

[Valcutio]

I prefer the viper over the widow. It shoots faster and holds way more clips. Just spam fire anything and watch it die - headshots are optional. Either sniper rifle is fine though.



Honestly, all these debates are silly. The Soldier stands above the rest in the killing department. He has access to the sniper rifle (which is the most powerful ability/gun/anything in the game) and both ammo types for taking down shields/armor (I generally ignore cryo). Infiltrator has the cloak ability which is convenient for sticky situations but he'll never kill as well as a soldier.



Any class that doesn't have access to the sniper rifle is underpowered in comparison. That's not to say they don't have cool abilities but using the viper sniper rifle I'm able to kill anything in the game in a few seconds on insanity. No other weapon or ability compares (and I've experimented with them all).

[mosor]

I love infiltrators. Every skill they have is useful in taking down any enemy. Hell even cryo ammo is awesome. Just put cryo ammo on your pistol (regular not the hand cannon since is faster firing) and a damage dealing ammo of your choice on the widow and SMG. One shot from the widow will strip the armor off any krogon, then whip out your pistol when the krogen gets closer and 1-3 shots will freeze it long enough to finish him off with the SMG. This method save a ton of sniper ammo and keeps your powers charged up in case you need to escape.



AI hacking isn't bad either. Use your rifle to strip down a strong geth and hack it. When they swarm they'll focus on the hacked geth. By the time your hack wears off, your power is usually available again.



I know you can't get all the skills you want all the time, but that's what retrain skills is for. For instance, I love warp ammo, but on missions where enemies primarily use shields, you're better off using disruptor ammo anyway.



The only situation that gives me trouble is when husks or varren swarm. But having grunt and miranda in the party help. Area incinerate will usually strip the armor off varren and husks and grunts concussive shot or miranda's biotics can help you finish the job with the SMG.

[refulgentshadow101]

HeavyTankZA, check out this video. I think it will express how singularity does work on anything, on insanity mode.

[refulgentshadow101]

(Forgot to mention in last comment.) However, this is evidently on PC mode. I am unsure whether singularity only works on this version, and not on the xbox 360 version.

[Lopake]

More pew pew less QQ

[brgillespie]

Vhatever, I'll be the first to say that if you don't exercise some self-control and chill on the forum raging against anyone disagreeing with you, I'll be reporting every post you've made in this thread in which you insulted someone. Either post civil responses or take a step back from the forums entirely.

Modifié par brgillespie, 17 février 2010 - 05:10 .

[vhatever]

Ohhh, a threat. And not a very original one, at that. Report away and QQ all day.