165 réponses à ce sujet

[ralphfromdk]

this is a counter rant to all those people who say that this game is less of an rpg because it lacks loot and stuff like that...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..? 
"screw the storie and me choosing the fate of all life as we know it, i just want to look through crates for left over armor and guns!!" 

that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..? did you forget that what the name means... you play... a role... in a game...
hence "role- playing- game"
they didn't call it a "grab a bag and go loot the aliens you kill" game...

it's the future god damn it.... machines are supposed to do all this weapons stuff for you.. you don't go looting enemies unless you are a scrap salesman.. you're a soldier.. here's some gear, now go kill stuff with it...

to me it makes more sense that shepard only has to buy research for the gear he/she already has... you're supposed to be this top trained soldier, with state of the art guns and armor (untill they make improvements in a lab somewhere) and that's what you use you're funding on.. you are working for a "private" company now..

it doesn't make sense to go "hold up guys.. i need to check these here Geth for stuff"
"oh wow.. look at this !!! i found a new armor.. let me put it on out here in the vacume"...
"hey.. look at this.. i found a weapon mod on the ground... let me just put it into my gun and see what happens"

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...




and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

 

Modifié par ralphfromdk, 05 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[Bass of Spades]

Careful. You've just opened up Pandora's Box.



Here, have a flame shield.

[AntiChri5]

He will need more than one.



Borrow mine as well.

[ralphfromdk]

no worries... i've got state of the art shielding because i don't look through random boxes for stuff to fight with :3

[AntiChri5]

Aaaah, you have the kind of armour that would be given to humanities best soldier from the beginning? Dammit! I am still looking through crates!

[BomimoDK]

i'm with ralph. Diablo and Borderlands aren't even RPG's. you have NO dialogue. it's hack'n'whack games. loot isn't all. but it's still cool as hell to pick up some stuff to help you in tougher fights.

[Klimy]

The loot was a nice feature of mainly RPG games, if loot itself is really a RPG factor, than "sort of" its RPG-ish to change stuff, get new and bla bla bla. But if it should come from looting, well that depands probably on whom you ask. Im ok as long as it comes from somewhere be it shops or dead bodies.
But in some places in ME2 i was asking myself why I couldn't pick up this or that from the dead body and had to wait for final mission instead while gun was right in front of me.

So looting is not a defining aspect of RPG but it allways feels nice to get stuff, no matter the game.

Modifié par Klimy, 05 février 2010 - 12:32 .

[vhatever]

This isn't a counter rant. It's just a dumb post. Yes, no looting enemies makes ME2 less of an RPG. The end.

[UPxINxSMOKE187]

they should at least make a unique armor for each class

[Khavos]

ralphfromdk wrote...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..?

No.  That's a small part of it.  There's also character customization (sadly lacking in ME2) and character progression.

"that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..?"

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs.  The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved.  The character did not.  Same can be said for ME2.

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...

Really?  So which part of your squad of galactic badasses being too dumb to put on body armor when they go into combat makes sense? 

and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

[Serenade]

ME2 is a TPS with RPG elements.

[Lightice_av]

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs. The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved. The character did not. Same can be said for ME2.

OK, I agree with some of the things you said, but this is just ridiculous. I haven't seen this much character development in a computer game ever. Stats are insignificant compared to the development of the character, their personality and relationships with other main characters



Yes, I could have taken a bit more stats, though I couldn't care less about the loot, but to say that there was no character development is an insult to the game.

[Khavos]

Lightice_av wrote...

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs. The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved. The character did not. Same can be said for ME2.

OK, I agree with some of the things you said, but this is just ridiculous. I haven't seen this much character development in a computer game ever. Stats are insignificant compared to the development of the character, their personality and relationships with other main characters

Yes, I could have taken a bit more stats, though I couldn't care less about the loot, but to say that there was no character development is an insult to the game.

If you're speaking of the NPCs, then yes, some of them do develop.

If you're speaking of Shep, I don't know what to tell you. 

[skiele]

mass effect is not an rpg. mass effect is an adventure game with shooter and rpg elements. and i think it's very good like this.



imho.

[n4d4n]

ralphfromdk wrote...

this is a counter rant to all those people who say that this game is less of an rpg because it lacks loot and stuff like that...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..? 
"screw the storie and me choosing the fate of all life as we know it, i just want to look through crates for left over armor and guns!!" 

that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..? did you forget that what the name means... you play... a role... in a game...
hence "role- playing- game"
they didn't call it a "grab a bag and go loot the aliens you kill" game...

it's the future god damn it.... machines are supposed to do all this weapons stuff for you.. you don't go looting enemies unless you are a scrap salesman.. you're a soldier.. here's some gear, now go kill stuff with it...

to me it makes more sense that shepard only has to buy research for the gear he/she already has... you're supposed to be this top trained soldier, with state of the art guns and armor (untill they make improvements in a lab somewhere) and that's what you use you're funding on.. you are working for a "private" company now..

it doesn't make sense to go "hold up guys.. i need to check these here Geth for stuff"
"oh wow.. look at this !!! i found a new armor.. let me put it on out here in the vacume"...
"hey.. look at this.. i found a weapon mod on the ground... let me just put it into my gun and see what happens"

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...




and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

 

One word: Customization

If you look carefully at what people are complaining about you will notice the main thing is lack of customization in many fronts (skills, armor, weapons) rather than it not being an rpg. It's being described as 'mass effect is no longer an rpg' but it's actually lack of customisation that's bothering people. One example: I am forced to use heavy armor wether playing an adept or infiltrator, while I would like the option to use light or medium armors.

Modifié par n4d4n, 05 février 2010 - 01:21 .

[skjdfghlskdfhkue]

RPGs are all about immersion, and clearly you have to run around carrying a dozen armors and handed swords (guns and heavy weaponry are an acceptable substitute for sci-fi RPGs) that you picked from the corpses of everybody you killed.

Modifié par skjdfghlskdfhkue, 05 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[MarauderESP]

n4d4n wrote...

ralphfromdk wrote...

this is a counter rant to all those people who say that this game is less of an rpg because it lacks loot and stuff like that...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..? 
"screw the storie and me choosing the fate of all life as we know it, i just want to look through crates for left over armor and guns!!" 

that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..? did you forget that what the name means... you play... a role... in a game...
hence "role- playing- game"
they didn't call it a "grab a bag and go loot the aliens you kill" game...

it's the future god damn it.... machines are supposed to do all this weapons stuff for you.. you don't go looting enemies unless you are a scrap salesman.. you're a soldier.. here's some gear, now go kill stuff with it...

to me it makes more sense that shepard only has to buy research for the gear he/she already has... you're supposed to be this top trained soldier, with state of the art guns and armor (untill they make improvements in a lab somewhere) and that's what you use you're funding on.. you are working for a "private" company now..

it doesn't make sense to go "hold up guys.. i need to check these here Geth for stuff"
"oh wow.. look at this !!! i found a new armor.. let me put it on out here in the vacume"...
"hey.. look at this.. i found a weapon mod on the ground... let me just put it into my gun and see what happens"

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...




and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

 

One word: Customization

If you look carefully at what people are complaining about you will notice the main thing is lack of customization in many fronts (skills, armor, weapons) rather than it not being an rpg. It's being described as 'mass effect is no longer an rpg' but it's actually lack of customisation that's bothering people. One example: I am forced to use heavy armor wether playing an adept or infiltrator, while I would like the option to use light or medium armors.

/agree
all the classes have no sense since no matter what u have, u have to pass for the same corridor take cover on the same crates, same interaction whit the same thing in the same way, start a lvl (yes a lvl) from a to b no other options, the only diference is how u kill the bad guys.....etc it means tps with little rpg elements, sure u can chose if u do the game for the good side or the bad side (good story tough).....

[NINJ4 R4BBID]

Khavos wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs. The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved. The character did not. Same can be said for ME2.

OK, I agree with some of the things you said, but this is just ridiculous. I haven't seen this much character development in a computer game ever. Stats are insignificant compared to the development of the character, their personality and relationships with other main characters

Yes, I could have taken a bit more stats, though I couldn't care less about the loot, but to say that there was no character development is an insult to the game.

If you're speaking of the NPCs, then yes, some of them do develop.

If you're speaking of Shep, I don't know what to tell you. 

About Shepards developments i don't get your point, as i see it Shepards development is intertwined with his (your) interactions with ME universe and ME universes reaction to them. For example visit Tuchanka, Citadel  and see the differences (results of different choices in ME1) experience the imprint of Shepard. And how can you say that Shepard is not developing, in ME1 he was an Alliance soldier who became the first human Spectre, in ME2 he can become a great leader or not (depends how you manage it)!?

p.s. Sorry about bad English, not my native language.

[haberman13]

ralphfromdk wrote...

this is a counter rant to all those people who say that this game is less of an rpg because it lacks loot and stuff like that...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..? 
"screw the storie and me choosing the fate of all life as we know it, i just want to look through crates for left over armor and guns!!" 

that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..? did you forget that what the name means... you play... a role... in a game...
hence "role- playing- game"
they didn't call it a "grab a bag and go loot the aliens you kill" game...

it's the future god damn it.... machines are supposed to do all this weapons stuff for you.. you don't go looting enemies unless you are a scrap salesman.. you're a soldier.. here's some gear, now go kill stuff with it...

to me it makes more sense that shepard only has to buy research for the gear he/she already has... you're supposed to be this top trained soldier, with state of the art guns and armor (untill they make improvements in a lab somewhere) and that's what you use you're funding on.. you are working for a "private" company now..

it doesn't make sense to go "hold up guys.. i need to check these here Geth for stuff"
"oh wow.. look at this !!! i found a new armor.. let me put it on out here in the vacume"...
"hey.. look at this.. i found a weapon mod on the ground... let me just put it into my gun and see what happens"

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...




and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

It's about a complete package, not one certain element defining RPG, as it is ME2 has removed a large number of elements that coalesce to define RPG.

The story is great, this is key to a good RPG, the other stuff is missing (loot, stats, options really....)

[haberman13]

Lightice_av wrote...

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs. The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved. The character did not. Same can be said for ME2.

OK, I agree with some of the things you said, but this is just ridiculous. I haven't seen this much character development in a computer game ever. Stats are insignificant compared to the development of the character, their personality and relationships with other main characters

Yes, I could have taken a bit more stats, though I couldn't care less about the loot, but to say that there was no character development is an insult to the game.

You are describing character development as defined in movies/books.  While that is great, it's not what us RPG-fetishists have come to love.

The "character development" as it relates to story is great, the character development as it relates to gaming mechanics blows.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Go back to 1974, back to the dawn of Role Playing Games. The point was to go into a location, kill things, and take their stuff. That is how role playing began. That is the core of what role playing is. It has certainly grew since the days of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson but for me that is the essence of role playing.



Go into a location. Kill the bad guys. Take their stuff.



Everything else is flavor text.

[Bigeyez]

Yes loot means everything.

Obviously with that logic I can say that Resident Evil 4/5, Devil May Cry, and Dynasty Warriors are all RPGs, because they all have loot and inventory systems. Yup. Totally.

Modifié par Bigeyez, 05 février 2010 - 02:24 .

[Deltateam Elcor]

Loot is a good fun reward system, at the moment we get no rewards.

[Nomcookie]

!Sten. (== Yes.)