165 réponses à ce sujet

[ReadingRambo220]

From answers.com



Role-Playing Game - n.

"A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice."





Also, must be able to loot dead enemies bodies.....wtf?

[mscotch]

I like what they did with the weapons and armor. Looting corpses becomes very tedious IMO. I think researching upgrades in the lab made a lot of sense and was a good solution.

[AGogley]

Grey Poupon, there is a difference between the dictionary definition of an RPG and the traditional understanding of what makes an RPG.  It's just like cooking. 

I'm not willing to say ME2 is not an RPG, but many of the elements are most certiainly muted.  The difference between a level 10 character and a level 40 character is huge in most RPGs.  Not so much in ME2 because paragon/renegade choices control your ability to convince/bully people rather than attrributes or learned skills and your "feats" or "skills" are not at all controlled by your natural abilities (since you have none). Most of the "feats" or "skills" are mostly ammo related (especially true with soldier class).  You can easily level up your most important feats very early and there are no additional feats, skills, or abilities to be learned (Except the one additional power that everyone can get if they research it). 
In other words, you game progression is mostly a result of game choices you make.  That's good.  But your character improves very little, changes very little with the progression of the game.  That's an expectation in most RPGs even if you don't find it in your dictionary.

[AGogley]

mscotch wrote...

I like what they did with the weapons and armor. Looting corpses becomes very tedious IMO. I think researching upgrades in the lab made a lot of sense and was a good solution.

I agree with that, but then they offset that with the much more tedious scanning and probing for minerals.  I would like to have more customization of armor and weapons for everyone, but I like the way Bioware handled it in ME2 generally.  My biggest disappointment was with limited character customization (i.e. abilities, feats, and skills).

[evilhouseboat]

This is an awesome post. I agree. Great Job.

[AlanC9]

lv427 wrote...

In PnP RPG's every GM has a different style and puts emphasis on different things. Some like quick and dirty combat, others turn combat into a numbers grind that can make a minor confrontation last hours. Some GM's care about inventory management and others don't.

And of course, there are some PnP systems where you can't put an emphasis on looting; if equipment is paid for out of the character's points rather than being free, loot has no place in the system.

[kevlarcardhouse]

Meh, I like the streamlining they did. The whole tone of the Mass Effect series was to create a cinematic experience that you directed yourself. That doesn't work if you're spending all your time comparing outfits every five seconds. Myself, I prefer my RPGs to be where I PLAY A ROLE, and my least favourite aspect is the tedious chores of inventory management, constantly picking up items, and comparing various stats.

[Xx RTEK xX]

I think people take this RPG classification stuff too seriously. God forbid if a game is a combination RPG/ 3rd Person Shooter or RPG / Action Adventure game that it is not a full blown RPG, therefore it doesn't warrant the three letters R P G being in the genre classification of the game.



There is a thing called Sub Genres. Apparently people don't know this or else people wouldn't complain about this game not being an RPG or that it's not a "real RPG". This game is a combination of several different genres, as are most games. They take elements of different genres and create something for us to enjoy.



I agree with the OP. Looting someone's body after you kill them does not classify a game an RPG. It's only one part of traditional RPGs, but there are so many other factors that make an RPG. Seems like people forget what RPG even stands for.

[Elder Drake]

It is an RPG in the literal sense, but the RPG elements are so dumbed down that it nearly is a full blown shooter. I hear RPG I think: Fallout 3, DAO, and even Divinity II. My two cents, after my initial wtf after finishing it, is that it is a great game. You just have to take it as what it is, a weird hybrid of simplistic game mechanics that frame a rich setting and story. If you want a true classic RPG then play DAO to get the mechanics you crave...they sure in hell are not here.

[BioChair]

haberman13 wrote...

BioChair wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

Loot is a good fun reward system, at the moment we get no rewards.

How about amazing character interaction and development, is that not a reward? How about being brought back from the dead and given a state of the art ship? No reward there? How about the research? All rewards. Im glad the dungeon crawler/loot has been toned down in this game, it means I can focus on my ROLE in saving humanity.

Although I could well be wrong, maybe hundreds of weapons that look/sound exactly the same filling my never ending space pockets would help me slip into that role a bit better.

Fine point, but the development you speak of is engrained in the story, and not really an option; you have to do it everytime you play ME2 with little to no variation.  The upgrade system is simply a neutered version of a loot/gear/stat system.

Sure, you dont have any option regarding the ship, I would argue that the current upgrade system is more suitable than finding 10+ weapons every few containers you open. I do think they are likely to add more loot in upcoming DLC, it just seems odd to me that its such a sticking point for a lot of people on the boards. I honestly feel the loot/gear/stat model has been done to death and ME2 feels very progressive for an RPG.

Modifié par BioChair, 05 février 2010 - 08:22 .

[BioChair]

Xx RTEK xX wrote...

I think people take this RPG classification stuff too seriously.

Hehe true, clearly a lot of passion for Bioware's products

[MarauderESP]

this game its a sub genere of a RPG, i only say the loot system of ME1 was a total mess, however they just have to fix it and integrate it on this new system, whit like someone says up there "we have found some parts for ur weapons or armor after searching that place" and being ready to use on the armory so u can customize ur equip, add the upgrades u can make, in other words make the actual system deeper, for those who dont like that add a button that say "best" and magicaly or techonology get the best....

then make the places where u have to fight direverse....i mean if a took this route it would be a frontal attack, but if i chose this other i have to use other skills than fight, deppending where u go u get some loot or another.......

make the quest or mision in a way that u can make them the way u like.......i know is more work but now you go from point a to b, and u get the same upgrades for weapons......

then shops WTF?? just upgrades, no other weapons,armors, just upgrades???? how to fix this: add contents and make that tedius mining minigame worth it , need credits? sell resourses.....if u sell to much then u cant upgrade......that is ur choice......

sorry if my english is a little bad but is not my first language

and this is my opinion, no flames pls.... just traying to be constructive ^^

[Frotality]

thats exactly it, RPG= roleplaying, and having customizable equipment, often necessitating the need for loot systems to faciliatate an acceptable variety, is a MAJOR part of role playing that bioware scrapped. i really have little desire to repeat myself again though, look at the gamecritic review, it sums up my feeling perfectly. basically yes, loot is as much a part of RPG as scopes are a part of FPS, or building bases is a part of RTS.

[url=http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/mass-effect-2-review] review[url/]

EDIT= someone tell me how this link sh*t works, its very aggravating.

Modifié par Frotality, 05 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[BlasterMaster]

ME2 has loot by the planet-load.



In those other RPGs we get to defeat a dragon and have the instant satisfaction of picking up an awesome weapon or finding some badarse armor in a chest.



In ME2 we get to spin a globe searching for hotspots in order to gather the materials to build better weapons and armor.



Obviously ME2s loot system is far superior.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I like RPGs for their story and atmosphere, not the friggin looting.



So I consider ME2 an RPG... screw the looters. If they enjoy level-grinding so much they can play another game.

[BlasterMaster]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I like RPGs for their story and atmosphere, not the friggin looting.

So I consider ME2 an RPG... screw the looters. If they enjoy level-grinding so much they can play another game.

Mining planets is SO MUCH FUN. Not a grind at all.

[Sparrow475]

For the record, you can mod it so you can loot enemies weapons.

[Phil5000]

If this game had the original system but there was much less loot (about half) would you be able to tolerate that, or would you still prefer the new system? I think I prefer the original system personally... the excitement of finding some really cool bit of gear, comparing stats and so forth. Plus it's taken all the fun out of shopping. But there was just way too much loot and I got sick of sorting through it all.

I think you made an excellent point that you play a soldier, not some post nuke scavenger, so you wouldn't expect to spend great deal of your time looting bodies and scavenging for stuff.

What are your thoughts on the other aspect they stripped out, the customisation of weapons and armour, like installing a heat sink or barrel attachment or something? Do you miss that?

And what are your thoughts on other RPGs like Dragon Age where inventory management plays a large part? Does it bother you in that game or would you like to see a similar system implemented?

[fieldmob742]

ralphfromdk wrote...

this is a counter rant to all those people who say that this game is less of an rpg because it lacks loot and stuff like that...

come on.. seriously..? is that all a rpg is to you..? 
"screw the storie and me choosing the fate of all life as we know it, i just want to look through crates for left over armor and guns!!" 

that's not what rpgs are about.. apparently people only feel that there is progression if they get new stuff...
what about the storie evolving..? did you forget that what the name means... you play... a role... in a game...
hence "role- playing- game"
they didn't call it a "grab a bag and go loot the aliens you kill" game...

it's the future god damn it.... machines are supposed to do all this weapons stuff for you.. you don't go looting enemies unless you are a scrap salesman.. you're a soldier.. here's some gear, now go kill stuff with it...

to me it makes more sense that shepard only has to buy research for the gear he/she already has... you're supposed to be this top trained soldier, with state of the art guns and armor (untill they make improvements in a lab somewhere) and that's what you use you're funding on.. you are working for a "private" company now..

it doesn't make sense to go "hold up guys.. i need to check these here Geth for stuff"
"oh wow.. look at this !!! i found a new armor.. let me put it on out here in the vacume"...
"hey.. look at this.. i found a weapon mod on the ground... let me just put it into my gun and see what happens"

and yes i know there's the classic "but it's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense"... but i like the things they did.. they make sense...




and don't get me started on the Mako... every action game (yes ME is an action-rpg) has this half-arsed driving part, that really isn't all that good.. i'm glad they got rid of it...

 

Yes, you are saying that Halo is an RPG, Gears is an RPG, MW2 is an RPG ect ect...

Improve the loot, Not remove.

[artiss68w]

Khavos wrote...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

Says the guy who beat it on normal.

Anyway, what makes ME1 so much more a superior RPG than ME2? ME1 wasn't much of a traditional RPG to begin with...

[TJSolo]

artiss68w wrote...

Khavos wrote...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

Says the guy who beat it on normal.

Anyway, what makes ME1 so much more a superior RPG than ME2? ME1 wasn't much of a traditional RPG to begin with...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

[Prophet of Rage]

How can anyone in their right mind enjoy picking up 50 random items per mission and sorting through them to learn that 2 of said items are better than the gear you already have? Gtfo noobs.

[TJSolo]

Prophet of Rage wrote...

How can anyone in their right mind enjoy picking up 50 random items per mission and sorting through them to learn that 2 of said items are better than the gear you already have? Gtfo noobs.

Imaginary numbers.
But in respect to ME1 and taking your numbers as the example.
2 would be upgrades and the other 48 would be sold for creds so you could buy some spectre gear.


Also the loot discussion is about a new game not a new game+. Since in a new game plus you probably have all the gear you would need anyway so extras are redundant anyway. This is true for ME1 and ME2.

[artiss68w]

TJSolo wrote...

artiss68w wrote...

Khavos wrote...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

Says the guy who beat it on normal.

Anyway, what makes ME1 so much more a superior RPG than ME2? ME1 wasn't much of a traditional RPG to begin with...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

IMO, all those aspects (besides the higher level cap) sucked just as much as planet scanning. Maybe they should not have gotten rid of them completely, but some of the ideas for ME2 were good.

I still think this is more of an RPG than Jade Empire.

[TJSolo]

Some of the things in ME1 could have been kept and revamped, I wouldn't go as far to say they sucked since the game was a very good mix of action and RPG.



Not sure how having access to stores that allowed you to buy and sell or having more skills(there was an auto-level up option) could be perceived as bad.