165 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

1. A higher lvl cap means absolutely nothing in terms of RPG status. Hell, the original KOTOR had a lvl cap of 20 and the sequal was 30.

2. More skills? You mean electronics/decryption and your charm/intimidate? Charm/Intimidate was merged with your Paragon/Renegade points. Electronics and Decryption were removed to give the player more freedom with choosing your squadmates. In ME1, and a number of other RPGs, you were pretty much forced to bring along characters with those skills unless you had them yourself. Removing those skills gives me the option of using whatever teammates I want to use.

3. Other than the mod system, which had been replaced by static upgrades in ME2, the only difference in the overabundant weapons and armor in ME1 was the color scheme and the "stats". The weapon system in ME2 is far superior and would be perfect with the inclusion of just a few more guns per type and this will more than likely happen with DLC. As for armor, yes, I would like to be able to adjust what my squad is wearing. However, your choices in ME1 were pretty much just recolors of the same three model types. Whee....

4. Stores. It would be nice to be able to buy more stuff, but buying weapons and armor is stupid. Why would a mercenary with the backing of a secret organization buy weapons from some rinkadink store?

5. More overall exploration? You mean with the MAKO? So, you enjoyed wandering around the same 4 mountainous landscapes over and over again? Sure, the scanning system isn't perfect, but it is better than the MAKO. Honestly, the best thing BW could do would be to just implement driving missions akin to what you did on Virmire and Noveria in ME1. Perhaps they could give a planet several hubs that you drove two and from.

Also, with the exception of Horizon, you can wait to do any mission that the Illusive Man gives you. Plus, ME1 was fairly linear as well. Eden Prime, Citadel, choice of planets, Virmire, Citadel. In ME2, it is Starting location, choice of recruitment, break for Horizon, choice of recruitment, that one ship and final location. Really, I guess that makes ME2 less linear...Though I will say that there were more sidequests in ME1.

[artiss68w]

TJSolo wrote...

Some of the things in ME1 could have been kept and revamped, I wouldn't go as far to say they sucked since the game was a very good mix of action and RPG.

Not sure how having access to stores that allowed you to buy and sell or having more skills(there was an auto-level up option) could be perceived as bad.

The economic system wasn't that great. Get 20 types of the same weapon or upgrade and sell and/or break into omni-gel. Neither omni-gel or credits were needed much even on insanity. Once spec gear is unlocked, shows over. Your credits sit at 9999999, and you're left with a clunky system that makes you individually break down items into omni-gel.

ME1 had the worst loot system this gen. Personally, I think the upgrade system fits the ME universe better. BW just screwed themselves by not making it deep enough.

[artiss68w]

Zanallen wrote...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

1. A higher lvl cap means absolutely nothing in terms of RPG status. Hell, the original KOTOR had a lvl cap of 20 and the sequal was 30.

2. More skills? You mean electronics/decryption and your charm/intimidate? Charm/Intimidate was merged with your Paragon/Renegade points. Electronics and Decryption were removed to give the player more freedom with choosing your squadmates. In ME1, and a number of other RPGs, you were pretty much forced to bring along characters with those skills unless you had them yourself. Removing those skills gives me the option of using whatever teammates I want to use.

3. Other than the mod system, which had been replaced by static upgrades in ME2, the only difference in the overabundant weapons and armor in ME1 was the color scheme and the "stats". The weapon system in ME2 is far superior and would be perfect with the inclusion of just a few more guns per type and this will more than likely happen with DLC. As for armor, yes, I would like to be able to adjust what my squad is wearing. However, your choices in ME1 were pretty much just recolors of the same three model types. Whee....

4. Stores. It would be nice to be able to buy more stuff, but buying weapons and armor is stupid. Why would a mercenary with the backing of a secret organization buy weapons from some rinkadink store?

5. More overall exploration? You mean with the MAKO? So, you enjoyed wandering around the same 4 mountainous landscapes over and over again? Sure, the scanning system isn't perfect, but it is better than the MAKO. Honestly, the best thing BW could do would be to just implement driving missions akin to what you did on Virmire and Noveria in ME1. Perhaps they could give a planet several hubs that you drove two and from.

Also, with the exception of Horizon, you can wait to do any mission that the Illusive Man gives you. Plus, ME1 was fairly linear as well. Eden Prime, Citadel, choice of planets, Virmire, Citadel. In ME2, it is Starting location, choice of recruitment, break for Horizon, choice of recruitment, that one ship and final location. Really, I guess that makes ME2 less linear...Though I will say that there were more sidequests in ME1.

Well said.

[xSHAD0WENx]

RPGs are all around you playing the role of your character.



not just from getting to point A to point B but the journey in between.



ME1 had that.



ME2 it was focused on getting your squad. and forced the story up your ass and said "walk it off"



sure the story was good. but it didn't let you go at your own speed to get there.(so to speak)



some of the lore was butchered( the ammo crap was one of many of them) and for RPG(ish) that one of the last things you want to do( or you'll get nerds like us posting 50+ post about the same thing a day)

[Frotality]

Mezinger wrote...

Loot is just a contributor to a broader RPG core pillar.... Character Progression, which partially is the idea that you start out as less powerful and become more powerful / influential as the game goes on... this is a relative slider... so you can be pretty powerful to start with but become even more so as the story progresses. The changes they made to the Loot, Inventory System, XP mechanics, Skill System, Armour types etc etc. all have a negative impact on Character Progression mechanics which does in fact make ME2 less of an RPG than ME1.

this...is exactly what ive been trying to say. loot, variety of equipment, and meaninigful skill progression; they dont define an RPG, but they greatly enhance it. Bioware abandoned the complexity of these systems in favor of trying to enhance cinamatic feel and characters, which while also enhancing an RPG, neither define it nor can make it good on their own, which bioware thought they would. to immerse oneself into a role is much easier when i can control as much as possible about the character, but without ample variety of things to control or choices within them, the overall role becomes less personal. ME1 wasnt perfect in this regard, but even at the end i had a number of choices of what mod to put in a weapon or armor, choices that made a difference in how they performed and how i wanted them to perform. ME2 has no meaningful choice, unless choosing to buy an upgrade or not is meaningful. on top of that, the only weapon variations were direct upgrades, ME1 at least had some variety before i ended up with master spectre gear, ME2 basically has an avenger I and HMWA X for every weapon class. suddenly the choice in everything is made for me, and that is a great immersion breaker. everything was to simple, too much choice was made for me or not available at all.

[TJSolo]

artiss68w wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Some of the things in ME1 could have been kept and revamped, I wouldn't go as far to say they sucked since the game was a very good mix of action and RPG.

Not sure how having access to stores that allowed you to buy and sell or having more skills(there was an auto-level up option) could be perceived as bad.

The economic system wasn't that great. Get 20 types of the same weapon or upgrade and sell and/or break into omni-gel. Neither omni-gel or credits were needed much even on insanity. Once spec gear is unlocked, shows over. Your credits sit at 9999999, and you're left with a clunky system that makes you individually break down items into omni-gel.

ME1 had the worst loot system this gen. Personally, I think the upgrade system fits the ME universe better. BW just screwed themselves by not making it deep enough.

I clearly put in one of my posts to exclude new games from the discussion as a way to support your claim. Since you're just trying to argue from an extreme and not average play on a new save.

In a new game+ you have seen most of the drops already and made most of the cred you could hold.
Once spec gear is unlocked and you have 9999999 creds you are on a new game+ just getting 60 or doing some DLC. At which point the game economy has little impact on your play.

ME2s new game+ is just as redundant, you still have all the story based weapons but they can be picked up in the new game, not used or even sold. You also keep the armor parts you brought so when you do go to a store it looks even more barren.

[TJSolo]

Zanallen wrote...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

1. A higher lvl cap means absolutely nothing in terms of RPG status. Hell, the original KOTOR had a lvl cap of 20 and the sequal was 30.

2. More skills? You mean electronics/decryption and your charm/intimidate? Charm/Intimidate was merged with your Paragon/Renegade points. Electronics and Decryption were removed to give the player more freedom with choosing your squadmates. In ME1, and a number of other RPGs, you were pretty much forced to bring along characters with those skills unless you had them yourself. Removing those skills gives me the option of using whatever teammates I want to use.

3. Other than the mod system, which had been replaced by static upgrades in ME2, the only difference in the overabundant weapons and armor in ME1 was the color scheme and the "stats". The weapon system in ME2 is far superior and would be perfect with the inclusion of just a few more guns per type and this will more than likely happen with DLC. As for armor, yes, I would like to be able to adjust what my squad is wearing. However, your choices in ME1 were pretty much just recolors of the same three model types. Whee....

4. Stores. It would be nice to be able to buy more stuff, but buying weapons and armor is stupid. Why would a mercenary with the backing of a secret organization buy weapons from some rinkadink store?

5. More overall exploration? You mean with the MAKO? So, you enjoyed wandering around the same 4 mountainous landscapes over and over again? Sure, the scanning system isn't perfect, but it is better than the MAKO. Honestly, the best thing BW could do would be to just implement driving missions akin to what you did on Virmire and Noveria in ME1. Perhaps they could give a planet several hubs that you drove two and from.

Also, with the exception of Horizon, you can wait to do any mission that the Illusive Man gives you. Plus, ME1 was fairly linear as well. Eden Prime, Citadel, choice of planets, Virmire, Citadel. In ME2, it is Starting location, choice of recruitment, break for Horizon, choice of recruitment, that one ship and final location. Really, I guess that makes ME2 less linear...Though I will say that there were more sidequests in ME1.

1. Level cap is relative to how leveling matters in said game.  Leveling up and assigning skill points
mattered in ME1 while in ME2 you could never assign points as you level and
notice little difference in performance.



2. The removal of charm/intimidate was because in ME2 there isn't a point. You don't
do enough buying and zero selling to appreciate the bonuses. Plus
paragon/renegade as action options are always open regardless of how many
points you have.



3. There isn't much in the way of choice in ME2 weapons the notable differences
are burst, ammo capacity, speed, and damage within a given weapon
family(excluding heavy weapons) You talk about have skills in ME1 made you have
to bring along certain squadmates, the same can be said for weapons if you lack
an ammo skill. You can call the 3 different types of armor in ME1 just recolor
variants but in ME1 the stats mattered and effected everyone on your team.

Why don't you look at the loyalty outfits in ME2 now that is just a recolored
variant with no difference from the first outfit.



4. Every store has a different selection. ME2 has stores selling more than just
weapons and gear. To bad the stock is just 4 things per store and never
anything else.



5. I mean more exploration in general. Planets, Citadel, Omega, illium,
Tuchunka, and missions it is too linear, compact, and limited.  Certain
parts of the game are only opened when playing the story and after that closed
off again. About the areas being strangely compact I find it odd that on
illium a murder took place in the alley behind the police station and the
elevator one of the most wanted gangs on that planet is once again right behind
the police station.

The lack of vehicle exploration might be addressed with the Hammerhead DLC.

But speaking of the mako the actual complaint about planet exploring isn't the
mako, it was the repition of terrain. The terrains could have been more varied
which is a separate issue from saying the mako sucks cause it takes me 30min to
drive up a 89deg mountain.

Modifié par TJSolo, 06 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[WillieStyle]

TJSolo wrote...

artiss68w wrote...

Khavos wrote...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

Says the guy who beat it on normal.

Anyway, what makes ME1 so much more a superior RPG than ME2? ME1 wasn't much of a traditional RPG to begin with...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

This in a nutshell encapsulates the sheer irrationality of the "RPG elements" crowd.
Higher level cap?  You do realize the number 60 was completely arbitrary right?
Instead of having a system where each skill point improved your abilites by 1% and you got a new version of the ability every 4 points, they could have just consolidated it so that each skill points improves your abilities by 4% and you get a new version o fthe ability every level. There you go, level cap drops from 60 to 20-30 but absolutely nothing would be different as far as gameplay is concerned. 

In fact, gameplay is richer in ME2 if you're  a soldier or infiltrator because the skills actually alter gameplay a great deal more. 

I find the "RPG elements" crowd utterly bizzare.

[WillieStyle]

TJSolo wrote...


1. Level cap is relative to how leveling matters in said game.  Leveling up and assigning skill points
mattered in ME1 while in ME2 you could never assign points as you level and
notice little difference in performance.

What?! If anything it's the reverse.
In ME2 improving Tactical Cloak completely alters gameplay.  It makes sniping far more deadly.  In ME1, raising my sniper skill gave me a completely unnoticeable 1% increase in damage each level.

[Andorfiend]

Here's my problem with the ME 2 loot system.

In ME 1, yes loot might be some generic weapons/armour/mods but it could also be data files that would update your codex. It could be an ancient artifact of the protheans to advance mankinds knowledge, it could be a lost Turian colony insignia or Slarian League of One medallion to learn of past alien conflicts and intrigues. You might get an encrypted memo that leads to a side mission. You could find out that the Protheans spied an ancient hominids. You might get a criminals data files and help a plucky young reporter.

In ME 2 what do you get? Cash. Loot a safe? Cash. Hack a terminal? Cash. Splice a PDA? Cash. Explore virgin forest on an unexplored world? Cash.

So yes the shift in loot systems decreases the RPG feel of ME 2 because hacking a computer and finding data files feels real, checking out a PDA on the body of a dead scientist in an abandoned black lab and finding ... cash ... actively kicks me right in my suspension of disbelief, or sense of immersion if you prefer. It's just blah.

Modifié par Andorfiend, 06 février 2010 - 02:34 .

[Bootsykk]

Khavos wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

Stories evolve in every game with a narrative, and they're not all RPGs. The story in Modern Warfare 2 evolved. The character did not. Same can be said for ME2.

OK, I agree with some of the things you said, but this is just ridiculous. I haven't seen this much character development in a computer game ever. Stats are insignificant compared to the development of the character, their personality and relationships with other main characters

Yes, I could have taken a bit more stats, though I couldn't care less about the loot, but to say that there was no character development is an insult to the game.

If you're speaking of the NPCs, then yes, some of them do develop.

If you're speaking of Shep, I don't know what to tell you. 

Okay. Now hold up just one goddamn minute. I just have to flame this post.

What. The. F*ck. Are you talking about?!!? No character progression?! That's you who's playing that character! That's you who isn't progressing! I changed from being a super paragon character in ME1 to having a lot more renegade in ME2 because of the things that happened. That's character development. I dumped Kaiden because I was pissed at his little temper tantrum and fooled around with Thane, then found I actually really grew attatched to that character and decided to continue the romance.

It's the decisions you make and the way you change your own opinion about the characters and the surroundings that develop shepard as a character. It's really ignorant to say that Shep doesn't develop throughout the game, unless you were forcing yourself to take a specific path in the storyline.

[TJSolo]

WillieStyle wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

artiss68w wrote...

Khavos wrote...

ME's a limited, mediocre RPG until you enter combat, at which point it becomes an insanely easy TPS. 

Says the guy who beat it on normal.

Anyway, what makes ME1 so much more a superior RPG than ME2? ME1 wasn't much of a traditional RPG to begin with...

Higher level cap, more skills to customize, more weapons/gear to customize, store that you could buy and sell, and a higher feeling of exploration overall ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

ME2 is much more linear in evolution of the plot with the expection of doing any of the character loyalty missions, the missions the Illusive man gives you are started once given.

This in a nutshell encapsulates the sheer irrationality of the "RPG elements" crowd.
Higher level cap?  You do realize the number 60 was completely arbitrary right?
Instead of having a system where each skill point improved your abilites by 1% and you got a new version of the ability every 4 points, they could have just consolidated it so that each skill points improves your abilities by 4% and you get a new version o fthe ability every level. There you go, level cap drops from 60 to 20-30 but absolutely nothing would be different as far as gameplay is concerned. 

In fact, gameplay is richer in ME2 if you're  a soldier or infiltrator because the skills actually alter gameplay a great deal more. 

I find the "RPG elements" crowd utterly bizzare.

Wow you picked ONE of my reasons. The question was what makes ME1 a superior RPG than ME2.
As far as having a higher level, it means what goes along with it; more skill points and more skill trees.
In know way do I think ME2 could have a level 60 cap and only 4-5 skill trees per character.

Speaking of the point distribution it would be the level cap and be able spend all the points you have acquired. Many of the computer team members at level 30 seem to have a stray point or 2 that just can't go anywhere.

So with the issue of leveling and point distribution for the team, the level cap and system wasn't well thought out.

Since ME2 is toted as "streamlined" then by definition the gameplay is not richer.

[sedrikhcain]

Frotality wrote...

Mezinger wrote...

Loot is just a contributor to a broader RPG core pillar.... Character Progression, which partially is the idea that you start out as less powerful and become more powerful / influential as the game goes on... this is a relative slider... so you can be pretty powerful to start with but become even more so as the story progresses. The changes they made to the Loot, Inventory System, XP mechanics, Skill System, Armour types etc etc. all have a negative impact on Character Progression mechanics which does in fact make ME2 less of an RPG than ME1.

this...is exactly what ive been trying to say. loot, variety of equipment, and meaninigful skill progression; they dont define an RPG, but they greatly enhance it. Bioware abandoned the complexity of these systems in favor of trying to enhance cinamatic feel and characters, which while also enhancing an RPG, neither define it nor can make it good on their own, which bioware thought they would. to immerse oneself into a role is much easier when i can control as much as possible about the character, but without ample variety of things to control or choices within them, the overall role becomes less personal. ME1 wasnt perfect in this regard, but even at the end i had a number of choices of what mod to put in a weapon or armor, choices that made a difference in how they performed and how i wanted them to perform. ME2 has no meaningful choice, unless choosing to buy an upgrade or not is meaningful. on top of that, the only weapon variations were direct upgrades, ME1 at least had some variety before i ended up with master spectre gear, ME2 basically has an avenger I and HMWA X for every weapon class. suddenly the choice in everything is made for me, and that is a great immersion breaker. everything was to simple, too much choice was made for me or not available at all.

Sounds like it's a matter of valuing character immersion over story immersion for you. Fair enough. What did you think of the armor/outfit customization choices in Shepard's cabin? There is actually more variety in the look and abilities of your armor in ME2, you just don't have to hunt all over the place to find a lot of it.

[WillieStyle]

TJSolo wrote...

Wow you picked ONE of my reasons. The question was what makes ME1 a superior RPG than ME2.
As far as having a higher level, it means what goes along with it; more skill points and more skill trees.
In know way do I think ME2 could have a level 60 cap and only 4-5 skill trees per character.

Why not? Every single one of the numbers you mention in this paragraph is arbitrary.
A level system is an abstraction.  The "skill points" are all abstractions.

You could take the ME1 system and condense it down into a system with a level 10 cap and only 4 skill trees without altering gameplay at all. 

Simlarly, you could take the ME2 system and expand it out into a system with a level 100 cap and 12 skill trees without altering gameplay at all.

You can do this because levels and skill points are abstractions.

Speaking of the point distribution it would be the level cap and be able spend all the points you have acquired. Many of the computer team members at level 30 seem to have a stray point or 2 that just can't go anywhere.

So with the issue of leveling and point distribution for the team, the level cap and system wasn't well thought out.

Since ME2 is toted as "streamlined" then by definition the gameplay is not richer.

Um you get 50 points total at level 30. It takes 10 points to max out each "tree." I realize math is hard but figuring out how to spend all your points without having stray ones isn't rocket surgery.  And "respeccing" is easy so even if you screw up at first, you can easily correct the problem.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 06 février 2010 - 02:49 .

[TJSolo]

WillieStyle wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Wow you picked ONE of my reasons. The question was what makes ME1 a superior RPG than ME2.
As far as having a higher level, it means what goes along with it; more skill points and more skill trees.
In know way do I think ME2 could have a level 60 cap and only 4-5 skill trees per character.

Why not? Every single one of the numbers you mention in this paragraph is arbitrary.
A level system is an abstraction.  The "skill points" are all abstractions.

You could take the ME1 system and condense it down into a system with a level 10 cap and only 4 skill trees without altering gameplay at all. 

Simlarly, you could take the ME2 system and expand it out into a system with a level 100 cap and 12 skill trees without altering gameplay at all.

You can do this because levels and skill points are abstractions.

Speaking of the point distribution it would be the level cap and be able spend all the points you have acquired. Many of the computer team members at level 30 seem to have a stray point or 2 that just can't go anywhere.

So with the issue of leveling and point distribution for the team, the level cap and system wasn't well thought out.

Since ME2 is toted as "streamlined" then by definition the gameplay is not richer.

Um you get 50 points total at level 30. It takes 10 points to max out each "tree." I realize math is hard but figuring out how to spend all your points without having stray ones isn't rocket surgery.  And "respeccing" is easy so even if you screw up at first, you can easily correct the problem.

Yes, if you have 10 levels and 12 skill trees that will alter game play, longevity, and customization.
Meaning when and how often would you level up and how many points will be distributed upon leveling, Yes that would alter game play.

RPGs tend to have a higher number of levels and skillsets in order to create a pseudo feel of customization.
And with that point is why I said having less levels is being less inline with having a RPG feel.


Um you get 50 points total at level 30. It takes 10 points to max out
each "tree." I realize math is hard but figuring out how to spend all
your points without having stray ones isn't rocket surgery.

I realize reading comprehension is hard, but I was referring to my the computer teammates, I know I typed it there not sure why you can't read it and they only get 30-27 points at level 30.
At this time I am looking at Miranda with 30 points(3 maxed powers), Jack 28 points(2maxed powers, 1 power at lvl3 and 1 power at lvl2), and Mordin with 27 points( 2 maxed, 1 at lvl3, and 1 at lvl1 with a point that can go nowhere)

[SnowHeart1]

Master Bandit wrote...

ME2 is a TPS with RPG elements.

This.  If one more person tells me ME2 is an RPG, I'll shoot them.  It is not an RPG.  If it is, it is a poor RPG; mediocre at best.  On the other hand, it is an excellent TPS with RPG elements.

[wikkedjoker]

Lets just face it ME2 is a TPS with RPC set pieces. It focuses more on the combat and a COD perk like system. AKA leveling up to get better stuff.



I mean if your going to say ME2 is a RPG because of the Level up system than COD online is an RPG because of the perk system.

[MassEffect762]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Master Bandit wrote...

ME2 is a TPS with RPG elements.

This.  If one more person tells me ME2 is an RPG, I'll shoot them.  It is not an RPG.  If it is, it is a poor RPG; mediocre at best.  On the other hand, it is an excellent TPS with RPG elements.

and just about NO cool loot save the "Rape" weapons. It's a buzzkill.

If you don't get it you don't get more power to you.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 06 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[WillieStyle]

TJSolo wrote...

Yes, if you have 10 levels and 12 skill trees that will alter game play, longevity, and customization.
Meaning when and how often would you level up and how many points will be distributed upon leveling, Yes that would alter game play.

RPGs tend to have a higher number of levels and skillsets in order to create a pseudo feel of customization.
And with that point is why I said having less levels is being less inline with having a RPG feel.

And with this I finally give up on trying to understand the "RPG elements" crowd.

I realize reading comprehension is hard, but I was referring to my the computer teammates, I know I typed it there not sure why you can't read it and they only get 30-27 points at level 30.
At this time I am looking at Miranda with 30 points(3 maxed powers), Jack 28 points(2maxed powers, 1 power at lvl3 and 1 power at lvl2), and Mordin with 27 points( 2 maxed, 1 at lvl3, and 1 at lvl1 with a point that can go nowhere)

With all due respect, given your poor diction, you don't get to be snide about the "reading comprehension" of others.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 06 février 2010 - 04:46 .

[TJSolo]

My poor diction where WIllieStyle?

Was it because I lacked a period on my last sentence?



I treat forum posting more as an informal way of communication. If I was composing an essay on this the structure and wording would be different.



You never even got the point of leveling being a route to deeper customization in typical RPGs.

Hence why it was included to the question of why ME2 is less of an RPG than ME1.

Try and argue the points without attacking people for having opinions different than your own.

[artiss68w]

TJSolo wrote...

artiss68w wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Some of the things in ME1 could have been kept and revamped, I wouldn't go as far to say they sucked since the game was a very good mix of action and RPG.

Not sure how having access to stores that allowed you to buy and sell or having more skills(there was an auto-level up option) could be perceived as bad.

The economic system wasn't that great. Get 20 types of the same weapon or upgrade and sell and/or break into omni-gel. Neither omni-gel or credits were needed much even on insanity. Once spec gear is unlocked, shows over. Your credits sit at 9999999, and you're left with a clunky system that makes you individually break down items into omni-gel.

ME1 had the worst loot system this gen. Personally, I think the upgrade system fits the ME universe better. BW just screwed themselves by not making it deep enough.

I clearly put in one of my posts to exclude new games from the discussion as a way to support your claim. Since you're just trying to argue from an extreme and not average play on a new save.

In a new game+ you have seen most of the drops already and made most of the cred you could hold.
Once spec gear is unlocked and you have 9999999 creds you are on a new game+ just getting 60 or doing some DLC. At which point the game economy has little impact on your play.

ME2s new game+ is just as redundant, you still have all the story based weapons but they can be picked up in the new game, not used or even sold. You also keep the armor parts you brought so when you do go to a store it looks even more barren.

Ok, I'll give you the new game+ thing. Also, ME2 NG+ is similiar. Honestly, I rarely bought anything from the stores in ME1. All the best upgrades/weapons/armor (besides spec) I got in the field, and the few things I would buy were the licenses and special upgrades. (+1 to medi-gel capacity, etc.) Mostly, I found myself getting the "you are almost at 150 items" and selling everything at the Normandy.

Either way,  a lot of RPGs have a better loot system then both MEs.

[Elder Drake]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Master Bandit wrote...

ME2 is a TPS with RPG elements.

This.  If one more person tells me ME2 is an RPG, I'll shoot them.  It is not an RPG.  If it is, it is a poor RPG; mediocre at best.  On the other hand, it is an excellent TPS with RPG elements.

100% dead on, anyone else arguing against this core concept is a fanboy or forum jockey that gets kicks out of just arguing and putting others down. That statement doesn't mean the game is bad, the game is great. Maybe some people are pissed because Bioware is one of the kings of RPGs and to put this into the same category as say their last release, DAO, and say they are same genre of game style is foolish. Next thing people will be arguing that MW2 is a sports game because it has throwing mechanics or that DAO is a shooter because you can shoot arrows and need to reload. Idiotic statements but then again, so is comparing this to a traditional RPG.

[Jonathan_Strange]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Master Bandit wrote...

ME2 is a TPS with RPG elements.

This.  If one more person tells me ME2 is an RPG, I'll shoot them.  It is not an RPG.  If it is, it is a poor RPG; mediocre at best.  On the other hand, it is an excellent TPS with RPG elements.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

Was it IGN that started this "[xyz type game] with RPG elements" nonsense?  As if the term "RPG" was something handed down from God and written in stone?  Things change.  Technology changes.  Back when DND was created (and gentle brontosaurus roamed the earth), a pen and piece of paper were more or less state of the art.  At that time, the only way to measure character progression in an objective way was through the accumulation of loot, exp points, and levels.   
 
It seems reasonable to categorize ME2 as an RPG because it shares the same core concept as more traditional RPGs: character progression.  The only difference between ME2 and DND is the manner in which that core concept is measured (moral choices, development of relationships with NPCs vs. loot, skill trees, and experience points).

[Mudzr]

The way I see it, Bioware loves rpgs.

Bioware feels that gamers love RPGs and that there aren't enough of them.

Bioware creates two very different RPG's to cater to different people's tastes, and views of what a RPG is.



Masseffect was always very action oriented, what Bioware has done is just push it down that direction a bit more. I personally like it.



Dragonage is the opposite, all about tatics and loot, I thought dragonage was great, but for it's story and characters, I prefered ME2's gameplay.



Maybe ME2 isn't "your" idea of a RPG, but it's all subjective, I consider it one, and I really enjoyed playing it, as did many others, isn't that what matters?



Probably not *goes back to play ME2*

[Youmu]

AGogley wrote...

3.) Secondary power learning is a cool idea, but it's not limited by class. So if I'm not a biotic I can suddenly have a biotic power. In ME1, there were real advantages to being a pure class. In ME2, the best class is a soldier who then picks up a biotic power (IMHO).

But ME1 did the exact same thing? Get achievements, get bonus powers for next playthrough/new chara. I've always picked Singularity in it for no matter the class since it's rather OP in ME1. Or then pick Sniper Rifles for my Adept..

Modifié par Youmu, 06 février 2010 - 08:50 .