165 réponses à ce sujet

[Drakron]

Hammer6767 wrote...

On another note...how many people considered Diablo and it's clones an RPG?  A lot.  And I think that game was no where close to what defines an RPG.

Maybe because Diablo is a roguelike dungeon crawler and the gender dates back to the 1980's Rogue that itself was based on a D&D module?

Funny thing SOME of us actually know history ... in fact most of the earlier "RPGs" were rougelike games until the Gold Box series started to change things.

Now here is the thing, anyone can justify most games as "Roleplaying Game" ... in Super Mario Brothers you play as Mario so its a "RPG" but as RPG roots are in D&D and similar tabletop games the so gender of RPG is accepted to follow in the same lines as those type of tabletop games.

But due to the trend of adding RPG elements on games and call it a RPG as a marketing strategy it muddled the waters, now what is a RPG is what the marketing departement decides to label it.

[rwilli80]

Andorfiend wrote...

I hate repeating myself, but...

Here's my problem with the ME 2 loot system.

In ME 1, yes loot might be some generic weapons/armour/mods but it could also be data files that would update your codex. It could be an ancient artifact of the protheans to advance mankinds knowledge, it could be a lost Turian colony insignia or Slarian League of One medallion to learn of past alien conflicts and intrigues. You might get an encrypted memo that leads to a side mission. You could find out that the Protheans spied an ancient hominids. You might get a criminals data files and help a plucky young reporter.

In ME 2 what do you get? Cash. Loot a safe? Cash. Hack a terminal? Cash. Splice a PDA? Cash. Explore virgin forest on an unexplored world? Cash.

So yes the shift in loot systems decreases the RPG feel of ME 2 because hacking a computer and finding data files feels real, checking out a PDA on the body of a dead scientist in an abandoned black lab and finding ... cash ... actively kicks me right in my suspension of disbelief, or sense of immersion if you prefer. It's just blah.

Dang sorry for the double post, but remember its the future. They don't have paper money its all computerized. So that's why it makes sense you hack into those things and steal that dead person's cash. So in all reality Shep is an identity theif

[rwilli80]

I get that, but what new codex entries do you need. You only have two new races and a handful of new types of bad guys. What do they want to hack into a company's file system and steal secrets. What would you do with it, sure I guess you can sell it to Liara or the Shadow Broker... now that I think of it that's a pretty awesome idea.

[rwilli80]

Ya I guess you have a good point. I really didn't mention it before, but Shep is supposed to be the super soldier of the Alliance, why use cast off material to fight a galactic threat like the Reapers. Also there were plenty of times I hacked into a system and got weapon mods. Now I am guessing those are all plans for mods since you can't use them until you recruit Mordin.

[KentGoldings]

It's not just the loot. The whole system of inventory management...the variety of weapons and armour. It's all been watered down.

[AdamNW]

Huh, I could have sworn I picked up a sniper rifle from a dead Turian (on Purgatory) the other day.

[Canez fan 1988]

deku2106 wrote...

The Alliance don't run the galaxy, not to mention that you aren't part of them anymore AND most people don't believe in the Reapers (except, strangely enough, your party). I wish the way they'd do it was have the old mod system back, but you can find blueprints to make your own mods too. Or even make them without research as long as you have the materials. I didn't like the stacking of mods in this because the weapons didn't feel any different before or afterwards to me. Plus, I didn't like ammo being stuck in the powers section. No shredder/tungsten/radioactive/polonium/cryo/phasic/etc rounds choice, just the two you get.

Thats were the replayability of the game comes in. If you play as a soldier, you can get up to FOUR different ammo types. Incindiary, Cryo, Disruptor, and then through the research terminal you can get Armor-Piercing.

[Andorfiend]

Quick examples. On Feros you see a data terminal in the freighter and when you hack it you learn about a shipment of supplies to the middle of nowhere. When you follow it up you find a cerberus base. In Executor Pallin's office on the Citadel you can hack a terminal and learn about an attempt to recuit biotics that leads you to Major Kyle's biotic cult compound. In the Grissom system you can hack a Geth terminal and download information vital to the Quarians effoerts to understand the Geth. On Noveria you can open terminals and see notes from the scientists about the research they're doing.



I spent the last half of ME 2 being disappointed that every single time you look at a terminal or a pda or a laptop all you find is cash instead of something that might make me feel I was exploring a world instead of a monopoly board.

[AdamNW]

Andorfiend wrote...

Quick examples. On Feros you see a data terminal in the freighter and when you hack it you learn about a shipment of supplies to the middle of nowhere. When you follow it up you find a cerberus base. In Executor Pallin's office on the Citadel you can hack a terminal and learn about an attempt to recuit biotics that leads you to Major Kyle's biotic cult compound. In the Grissom system you can hack a Geth terminal and download information vital to the Quarians effoerts to understand the Geth. On Noveria you can open terminals and see notes from the scientists about the research they're doing.

I spent the last half of ME 2 being disappointed that every single time you look at a terminal or a pda or a laptop all you find is cash instead of something that might make me feel I was exploring a world instead of a monopoly board.

You do that in Omega, Ilium, and the Citadel too, just not with terminals.

[squid5580]

Well I looted a few Geth now. So I guess it is an rpg afterall. Problem solved

[KentGoldings]

AdamNW wrote...

Huh, I could have sworn I picked up a sniper rifle from a dead Turian (on Purgatory) the other day.

You pick up the ability to do research to upgrade your existing sniper rifle.

[Mendelevosa]

I'm glad the looting system in ME1 was gone. All I ever got from looting 85% of the time was crap I didn't even need. Not to mention I got tired of looking through the 1000+ items  in my inventory just to find one item. And why were their so many different levels of the same damn gun rounds, armor and weapons as separate items? All that does is create unnecessary clutter. I like that for ME2, you loot for and buy weapons and you upgrade them yourself without having to get 10 different version levels of the same thing. Here's what should have happened. In ME2, there should have been at least 30+ you could have bought of looted all the weapons and armor in their lowest level, and then upgrade them through minerals and credits instead of clogging up your inventory with numerous items in different levels.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 07 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Cluck Norris]

Did you loot dead aliens in Mass Effect 1? No. So youare arguement is horrible.

I really wonder why RPG fans try to argue with Bioware fanboys.

Modifié par Cluck Norris, 07 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Permutation]

I thought random armor and weapon drops were definitely more interesting than just credits and medi-gel. I'm mostly irked about the absence of an inventory and the ability to mod gear real-time, and by "mod" I mean the slots that allowed you to add custom selection of attributes to any weapon or armor for desired results and from anywhere in the game, as well as change gear outside of the Normandy. Not a stupid static "Upgrade" Terminal.

[Canez fan 1988]

deku2106 wrote...

Replayability went out the window for me when I noticed that most levels followed the same corridor-with-a-monster-closet-at-the-end-of-it formula throughout the game, but that's cool, I didn't notice that.

I still prefer the original way of doing it, but that's just my preference at this point.

Edit, on thinking about for more than about 2 seconds, it still seems like a bad idea to me. Taking up skill space where your character's traits and abilities should be with different types of rounds just seems like they're removing useful powers (like overkill) for the sake of something you could do elsewhere. Plus, having rounds upgrade as part of your character's abilities doesn't make sense to me.

You want to talk about useless skills and you bring up overkill?  That was as useless as they come in ME1. Once you got past a certain point in ME1 it was no longer worth using considering you can fire your weapon non-stop without overheating. 

Ammo only takes up space on your skill traits if you are a soldier, cause that's is what a soldier is skilled at, shooting stuff. It makes sense for soldier character to have all the different types of ammo available to him.

That's the point I was trying to make. If you play as a biotic you won't have access to those ammo types, but if you go play as a soldier then you can approach a situation much more differently.

As far as your comment in your first sentence, well when you get down to it you can apply that to ANY video game.

Modifié par Canez fan 1988, 07 février 2010 - 06:25 .

[Canez fan 1988]

Permutation wrote...

I thought random armor and weapon drops were definitely more interesting than just credits and medi-gel. I'm mostly irked about the absence of an inventory and the ability to mod gear real-time, and by "mod" I mean the slots that allowed you to add custom selection of attributes to any weapon or armor for desired results and from anywhere in the game, as well as change gear outside of the Normandy. Not a stupid static "Upgrade" Terminal.

It's the same sh*t dude. Instead of having to constantly swap out upgrades tho, when you research an upgrade it becomes permanent to your weapons. Same thing with ammo, instead of having to pause the game to go to the equip screen you just activate the wheel menu and select the ammo appropriate for the situation.

Modifié par Canez fan 1988, 07 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[Permutation]

You're an idiot. Sorry, but you are. It's not the "same sh*t". I could mod any armor or weapon the way I wanted to in ME1, and in real-time. I can't do that in ME2. ME2 is very linear by comparison.

Modifié par Permutation, 07 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[Canez fan 1988]

Permutation wrote...

You're an idiot. Sorry, but you are. It's not the "same sh*t". I could mod any armor or weapon the way I wanted to in ME1. I can't do that in ME2. ME2 is very linear by comparison.

Yes it is. You just can't change it once you upgrade it. Actually, ME2 is much more varied in that it had many different upgrades for your gun. Calling me an idiot just makes you look immature, and is a reason why you people who dislike the game keep getting thrashed on here.

[Moogliepie]

Cluck Norris wrote...

Did you loot dead aliens in Mass Effect 1? No. So youare arguement is horrible.

I really wonder why RPG fans try to argue with Bioware fanboys.

That's I view ME1 fanboys who refuse to acknowledge how poor the combat system was. ME1 had a great story, but failed in its attempt to fuse RPG with real-time TPS. I know Fallout 3 has its fans, but that combat system is garbage too. ME2 suceeded in fusing interactive choice-based storytelling with immersive, fluid action like no other game has. 

[Moogliepie]

Cluck Norris wrote...

Did you loot dead aliens in Mass Effect 1? No. So youare arguement is horrible.

I really wonder why RPG fans try to argue with Bioware fanboys.

That's how I view ME1 fanboys who refuse to acknowledge how poor the combat system was. ME1 had a great story, but failed in its attempt to fuse RPG with real-time TPS. I know Fallout 3 has its fans, but that combat system is garbage too. ME2 suceeded in fusing interactive choice-based storytelling with immersive, fluid action like no other game has. 

Modifié par Moogliepie, 07 février 2010 - 06:39 .

[Cluck Norris]

Moogliepie wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

Did you loot dead aliens in Mass Effect 1? No. So youare arguement is horrible.

I really wonder why RPG fans try to argue with Bioware fanboys.

That's I view ME1 fanboys who refuse to acknowledge how poor the combat system was. ME1 had a great story, but failed in its attempt to fuse RPG with real-time TPS. I know Fallout 3 has its fans, but that combat system is garbage too. ME2 suceeded in fusing interactive choice-based storytelling with immersive, fluid action like no other game has. 

No one is arguing about the combat system idiot. Once again you proved my point. Bioware fanboys resort to changing the argument rather than refuting it.

And for every thread saying that the game isn't an RPG, there are 10 other fanboy threads defending the game. It is as if you guys are insecure about the game you are so vehimontly defending.