131 réponses à ce sujet

[Coldcall01]

This is not a rant against Bioware in general because i really enjoyed DAO and will keep playing that game and probably buy the expansion when it comes out. But seeing what was done with ME2 I feel no urge or attraction towards an ME3 unless they drastically re-design the gameplay to be more complex, more RPG like, and less like a map-map linear shooter.

I should have known better than to pre-order ME2. In fact i've never pre-ordered any game in my whole life and I've been a PC gamer since mid 80s.

But I loved ME1 like many others and really thought ME2 would be something special by taking all the best bits, improving them, and making a bigger more in-depth game.

What i think is very odd is how ME1 was designed for the console but was actually quite a deep complex game, which ported well over to the PC. However ME2 was developed for both platforms but ends up feeling like a dumbed down console shooter far more than the first game.

The lack of depth in ME2 is derisory. It really feels like it was developed for adolescent couch potatos who need to be shown with a big pointy hand where to go next in a game and what to wear. The levels/maps are so simplistic i could hardly believe this was developed by the same company who brought us DAO, BG series, KOTOR etc...

The point about lack of complexity and depth to ME2 can be proven very easily through simple maths. Yes i hear people try to argue ME2 more custimisable, but that is just nonsense from any empirical analysis,

Lets take the armour for a start:

There were the following differentials of armour configuration not just for Shepard but all the squad:

ME1= light, medium, heavy armours which would accord with your chosen class, which makes sense since an adept wont be wearing the same armour as a soldier. Then within those three classses there were the actual many different makes/types of armour such as Collosus, Predator etc...And even more choice was based on the fact you could add or remove upgrade cartidges which covered shields, mediskeletons, barriers, and other interesting upgrades and bonuses.

ME2= one armour class. Up to 3 or 4 different models of chest, legs, arms pieces. And? Thats it folks.

Just do the maths and even the most inumerate should be able to come to the simple conclusion that on armour alone ME1 is a far more complex and customisable game. The possible variations of armour customisation in ME1 are so superior its not even worth the trouble of getting your calculator out.

Sorry but i find the lack of options in ME2 to be only worthy of those in a coma or braindead.

very sad to see a once great developer join the populist x-factor generation of game making drivel.

[DarthCaine]

You're forgetting that there was only 3 different models for armors in ME1. The others were just with a different color and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different



In ME2 the possibilities are almost limitless 'cos you can customize it any way you want

[Coldcall01]

DarthCaine wrote...

You're forgetting that there was only 3 different models for armors in ME1. The others were just with a different color and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different

In ME2 the possibilities are almost limitless 'cos you can customize it any way you want

Bollocks. There were way more than three models of armour. I played the game numerous playthroughs so please dont lie to my face about the armour in the game. Some may have been very similar other than small design differences and colour but they still looked and felt different enough.

In ME2 one could then argue there is only one armour with slight variations.

Either way you look at it ME1 was way more customisable..the maths proves it.

[DarthCaine]

Coldcall01 wrote...

Bollocks. There were way more than three models of armour. I played the game numerous playthroughs so please dont lie to my face about the armour in the game. Some may have been very similar other than small design differences and colour but they still looked and felt different enough.

In ME2 one could then argue there is only one armour with slight variations.

Either way you look at it ME1 was way more customisable..the maths proves it.

lol, believe what you will

[Coldcall01]

DarthCaine wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...

Bollocks. There were way more than three models of armour. I played the game numerous playthroughs so please dont lie to my face about the armour in the game. Some may have been very similar other than small design differences and colour but they still looked and felt different enough.

In ME2 one could then argue there is only one armour with slight variations.

Either way you look at it ME1 was way more customisable..the maths proves it.

lol, believe what you will

Its not about faith. You can either do simple maths and come to the empiracal conclusion or you can have blind faith. You have blind faith and are deluding yourself.

[Deltateam Elcor]

I want a hybrid, end of.

[Coldcall01]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

I want a hybrid, end of.

ME1 was a hybrid and why i liked it ALOT.

ME2 is no longer the same type of game.

[Coldcall01]

Just to add for the sake of the braindead sychophants who obviously cannot count to ten.



In ME1 you could take vanilla armour set which already had certain inbuilt protection and barrier bonuses, and then configure it even more by adding your own choice of extra bonus upgrade/cartidges. This allowed you to be far more detailed about augmenting your class weakness.



This cannot be done in to anywhere near the same degree in ME2. You get what you get and are stuck with it no matter your class, strengths and weaknesses.

[SithLordExarKun]

Most armor looked the same in ME1 with different textures slapped on. The unique thing about ME2 armors if being able to customize it which IMO is far better than the ME1 armor system.



Only gripe i have is that the parts are so limited.

[DarthCaine]

Coldcall01 wrote...

Its not about faith. You can either do simple maths and come to the empiracal conclusion or you can have blind faith. You have blind faith and are deluding yourself.

lol, why don't you try comparing all of the heavy armors and see that they all look completely the same, just with a different texture (same goes with light and medium armors)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 05 février 2010 - 12:11 .

[Pedro Costa]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Most armor looked the same in ME1 with different textures slapped on. The unique thing about ME2 armors if being able to customize it which IMO is far better than the ME1 armor system.

Only gripe i have is that the parts are so limited.

Just so you know, you're easily becoming one of my favourite members on these boards...
Completely agree.

[SithLordExarKun]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Most armor looked the same in ME1 with different textures slapped on. The unique thing about ME2 armors if being able to customize it which IMO is far better than the ME1 armor system.

Only gripe i have is that the parts are so limited.

Just so you know, you're easily becoming one of my favourite members on these boards...
Completely agree.

Why? You aren't being sarcastic right?...

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 05 février 2010 - 12:15 .

[Coldcall01]

DarthCaine wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...

Its not about faith. You can either do simple maths and come to the empiracal conclusion or you can have blind faith. You have blind faith and are deluding yourself.

lol, why don't you try comparing all of the heavy armors and see that they all look completely the same, just with a different texture (same goes with light and medium armors)

They dont all look the same. I've worn the damn things in many playthroughs so i know first hand, thankyou.

In any case at least one can compare the armour in ME1. There is only one class to compare in ME2!

So your whole premise is contradicted from the start.

[Pedro Costa]

SithLordExarKun wrote...
Why? You aren't being sarcastic right?...

Nope, been finding some posts of yours throughout the ME forums and until now I didn't find anything I disagreed with, I also happen to enjoy reading your posts, short and to the point most of the times, so you're easily becoming one of my favourite members here.

But this is OT, so... yeah =P

[SithLordExarKun]

Coldcall01 wrote...


They dont all look the same. I've worn the damn things in many playthroughs so i know first hand, thankyou.

In any case at least one can compare the armour in ME1. There is only one class to compare in ME2!

So your whole premise is contradicted from the start.

Most of them DO look the same, model wise with different textures slapped on.

In ME2 you get a chance to make your armor set "unique" looking by implementing different parts whereas in ME1 if you equip certain armors, you look just like every other generic combatant which makes my shepard feel like a clone and not his/her own character.

DarkLord_PT wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...
Why? You aren't being sarcastic right?...

Nope,
been finding some posts of yours throughout the ME forums and until now
I didn't find anything I disagreed with, I also happen to enjoy reading
your posts, short and to the point most of the times, so you're easily
becoming one of my favourite members here.

But this is OT, so... yeah =P

Are you going to be the next conrad verner? Niooo! Just kidding. But thanks anyways, i just like to get to the point and can't stand beating around the bush.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 05 février 2010 - 12:23 .

[Besetment]

ME1 was better at creating the illusion of complexity but it isn't really any more complex than ME2 is. ME1 gave you a tonne of choices for armour but really the only ones you ever wanted was Colossus X and everything else was just temporary. In this respect, armour upgrades fulfill the same role in ME2 as the inbetween armours and getting all the armour upgrades is akin to having endgame armour. The only area where ME1 differs is that it gave you many inferior armours with different textures so you had more choice about the way your character looked.

Ammo in ME2 works essentially the same way it does in ME1 except that in order to enable it, you no longer need to select it from a list of weapon mods and slot it in the weapon via an inventory screen. Now you hotkey it as a talent/power and press a button to activate it. It gives you the same functionality but requires no inventory management. Squad ammo types allow the PC to use all types of ammo but there are admittedly problems with using multiple squad ammo powers (they can overwrite each other).

With regards to linear gameplay. ME1 was linear too. The only significant difference is that ME1 has a large central hub area in the form of the Citadel which works like Athkatla in BGII. I haven't finished my first ME2 playthrough yet but so far there are no large central hub areas (though when I was playing I felt as if the Citadel or Illium could have been one).

Both games are railroaded because it is narrative driven. In this respect it is very much from the Half Life 2 school of design. Half Life 2 is a very linear game that is excellent at giving you the illusion of a vast world when it is in fact boxed in. The way encounters and set pieces are designed leads you through a level and initially does not invite you to test the limits of the illusion. For instance, the hovercraft sections where you never deviate from the correct course because the game never lets you lose sight of what you need to do. ME1 and 2 are very tight and focused in that regard and one of the advantages of having a small, linear game is that you can go extreme on the details because the number of art and voice assets you need to produce is very controlled. That is why the dialogue is so good in ME2 and the cutscenes are so well animated and voiced. You can't have this kind of detail in a Morrowind sized game.

However, it is worth mentioning that even in vast open world games like Morrowind, the idea that you have choice is also an illusion but very cleverly disguised. If you think for a minute about what it is that you do, you can boil it down to dressing up and accumulating items which allow you to kill things quicker. You cannot meaningfully affect the world unless it is to depopulate it by slaying npcs. The effect that you do have is expounded in the main story arc which is not particularly detailed.

ME1 on the other hand has a super detailed main story arc but not much to do outside of that barring Mako planet surveying. ME2 has more and more detailed side quests and still has the super detailed main story arc. I've played Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall and BGII and they are all as different as can be and they all have complexity but it is a different kind. Each game creates a different illusion of choice and consequence. I don't think ME2 is any less complex in these terms but it cannot be measured because it is a different kind of complexity anyway. The things I appreciate about ME2 have more in common with film than traditional role playing games. The cinematography for Archangel's Loyalty quest for instance is brilliant. The detail is amazing because of the pace of the cuts, the nervous shifting eyes and the tension of the scene.

Modifié par Besetment, 05 février 2010 - 12:45 .

[Coldcall01]

[quote]SithLordExarKun wrote...

In ME2 you get a chance to make your armor set "unique" looking by implementing different parts whereas in ME1 if you equip certain armors, you look just like every other generic combatant which makes my shepard feel like a clone and not his/her own character.

[quote]


Unique to who? What you mean is that in ME2 Shepard has armour which no-one else can have. Thats not the same thing.

So in fact in ME2 Shepard is given a huge advantage over any other player in the game because he has unique armours available to him and him only. So Shepard runs around in the sexy armour while everyone else in his squad has one change of armour.
 
Also in ME2 its always the same armour no matter what class. So an adept, vanguard soldier all wear the same armour.

Im sorry but the facts are mathematical, there are more different configurations possible in ME2 than ME1 by a long way. One can also tailor the barrier, shields, recharge and other interesting variables in armour confg in ME1 which are totally impossible in ME2.

You guys can argue til you are blue in the face but im afraid the maths proves you wrong.

[Brock-Samson]

I think the appearance differences is not really the issue. The issue is that in ME1 the different armors had different stats and properties, regardless of how similar they may have looked. In ME2 you get one armor and a limited amount of swappable parts and that's it. The worst part is that many of the swappable parts are completely useless for many of the classes which means that many of the classes only really have one logical armor configuration. At least you can change the color of it.

Don't get me wrong. I actually prefer the ME2 customization system. It simply needs more parts to give it some real variety.

Modifié par Brock-Samson, 05 février 2010 - 12:44 .

[Coldcall01]

Besetment,



Interesting post and i agree with you about illusion. But the point is that all computer games are based on an illusion. The trick is making that illusion as convincing as possible, and that is done by giving a player so many choices and configurations that he/she loses sight of the illusion.



The less choices and variations one has, the easier it is to start nit-picking about the shallow and linear gameplay.



Yes, often a game can seem complex when actually its not, but in ME1 armour was very configurable not just because of the different models (which many seem to think all look alike) but alos the upgrade slot system built into the armour sets.



This allowed options within options, which is not the case with ME2.

[SithLordExarKun]

Coldcall01 wrote...


Unique to who? 

Shepard.

Coldcall01 wrote...
What you mean is that in ME2 Shepard has armour which no-one else can have. Thats not the same thing.

No, that you don't look like everyone else. In ME1, people wear the same armor as you and most of the armors look like crap.

So in fact in ME2 Shepard is given a huge advantage over any other player in the game because he has unique armours available to him and him only.

  Yes, because you decide how he/she looks like, you customise his appearence and simply to put it, the armors in ME2 offer more variation than the ones in ME1 which is essentially the same model with different texures.

So Shepard runs around in the sexy armour while everyone else in his squad has one change of armour.

Yes
 

Also in ME2 its always the same armour no matter what class. So an adept, vanguard soldier all wear the same armour.

  So? In ME1 i can wear almost all the armors other classes can wear, if i am a vanguard with light armor, i can wear all light armor a soldier wears.

Whats your point?
 

Im sorry but the facts are mathematical, there are more different configurations possible in ME2 than ME1 by a long way. One can also tailor the barrier, shields, recharge and other interesting variables in armour confg in ME1 which are totally impossible in ME2.

Mathematical? Quality > Quantity, thats the only mathematical formula you need in this game.

One can also tailor the tint, pattern, material and other
interesting variables in armour confg in ME2 which are totally
impossible in ME1.

Point?

 

You guys can argue til you are blue in the face but im afraid the maths proves you wrong.

You busted your own balls, sorry.

[sonny2dap1]

I'm fine with the ME2 system I just want more options and the ability to choose squad armour thats it.

[UPxINxSMOKE187]

at least in me1 it gave you a reason to get to level 50 so you would be able to buy collosus armor in me2 your stuck with the same armor throughout the game and to top it off it capps at 30 what is that about

[Coldcall01]

Brock-Samson wrote...

I think the appearance differences is not really the issue. The issue is that in ME1 the different armors had different stats and properties, regardless of how similar they may have looked. In ME2 you get one armor and a limited amount of swappable parts and that's it.

I personally like the SYSTEM that ME2 uses more but wish that it had more of the VARIETY that ME1 had. Having 1 set of armor with 1-3 choices per slot doesn't result in very many options, especially when only one item in each slot benefits the class you've taken.

But in ME1, one could choose a slightly less powerful armour because maybe it looked better, and still buff it up with good cartridge upgrades. Not only that but because the armour itself came with certain built in stats.

Also i dont agree with the sentiment i hear that once you had Collosus X there was no point wearing anythting else. I personally thought heavy Collosus X looked good on Ash but sort of skimpy and too effeminate for my Shepard.

There were plenty of other decent armours which could be buffed to almost match Collosus X stats.

This is not possible in ME2. Some of the bonuses given to particular pieces of armour in ME2 are useless but because its part of the armour, one cannot reconfigure it with an upgradee to make it more useful.

[Pedro Costa]

Unique to who? What you mean is that in ME2 Shepard has armour which no-one else can have. Thats not the same thing.

Unique to yourself and another player.

Have you actually bothered buying armor parts? You can customize each part of the default N7 armour to your liking (wether stats-wise or aesthetics-wise), so yes, it is customisable, and can look extremely different than its default, unlike in Mass1 where all you got was a new paintjob and about three standard models going from I to X, where the only two armours that mattered to *anyone* were Colossi and Predator L/M/H and any of them the type X. So, at most, four armour types. For your Shep on Mass2, your default N7 armour can have four different patterns, 20(?) colours to choose from, two tints plus a pattern tint, the you can combine several types of should pads, arms, legs, torso and helmet, making the customisation options *far* superior to Mass1's. What you -seem- to be complaining isn't lack of diversity, it is lack of needless complication.

Now, that said, I would like more squad customisation options, but still, I do not agree with your stance, especially your demeanour.

So, your so-called "empirical" analysis at Mass2 armour isn't any more than a subjective opinion arrogantly passed as fact that, as I've proved, isn't all that verifiable due to the combinations you can make to the N7 armour.



Mind you, it is your right to prefer Mass1 armour to Mass2's, no one in their right mind would deny you that, but your arrogant demeanour takes away all the credit your stance may have had to begin with.

[Tamcia]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Most armor looked the same in ME1 with different textures slapped on. The unique thing about ME2 armors if being able to customize it which IMO is far better than the ME1 armor system.

Only gripe i have is that the parts are so limited.

Agree. ME1 inventory system was bad. ME2 is far better. I had custumization ability, otehr type of armor (dragon, collector, inferno) to choose from. It was enough in the end, maybe 2 more sets, but not more. Weapons same - I liked my gun.