131 réponses à ce sujet

[darkbark916]

 ME1 had an armor style that left little to the imagination, was based on the traditional loot management RPG style of gear, and had almost no personal feel to it. I couldn't stand most of the armor.

However, ME2 has a much higher degree of personal style with it, and the upgrade and modification system makes the whole experience much more involved. You get to personalize rather than muddle through an endless sea of "not much variance."

Personally, I think the new system is a vast improvement. Although I do wait for a game of this caliber to have customization on par with ES3: Morrowind, it's most likely not going to happen. 

While we're on the subject, the toning down of the fine point customization, on things like the skills, just makes them more fine tuned and specialized. To me, this makes you HAVE to act more tactical on the field, which I think makes the game better.

So, while I do see where your coming from, I feel like it's being slightly too critical of the game. It's meant to be more of an immersion into a story, rather than free roaming the galaxy. But, for a trilogy based on an awesome story line, I don't really think it's far off from being perfect for this era of video games.

[Cygnus Atratus]

Could all you semi-literate morons stop mentioning maths and empirical evidence!

At least until you actually show us some maths or empirical evidence.

That said, I like the customizability of the armour in ME2, but there aren't enough parts. I think it would be great if you could insert mods, that you research, into different armour-slots. Sounds like a fair compromise? I think so, too!

*Edit*
Also, the only game I have ever played that didn't hold my hand and left the exploration up to me was Morrowind. I had to actually read my journal and look for landmarks to find my way. It was great!

Modifié par Cygnus Atratus, 05 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Concerning armor system.



For ME2 they did a really good job on Shepard's armor, which is absolutely negated by the lack "toggle helmet" function and the crappy squadmates' combat "outfits".



So ME1 was way better about armor.

[n4d4n]

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?



If I am then I think you are just disagreeing with those who are complaining about the lack of customization just for the sake of not complaining and not agreeing.

[Cygnus Atratus]

n4d4n wrote...

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?

If I am then I think you are just disagreeing with those who are complaining about the lack of customization just for the sake of not complaining and not agreeing.

You are probably right.

Until we get some empirical evidence we will never know. *snicker*

[Coldcall01]

SithLordExarKun ,



"No, that you don't look like everyone else. In ME1, people wear the same armor as you and most of the armors look like crap.



Agreed about everyone else looking like crap. At least in ME1 one had pride setting out with your configured squad of specialists. In ME2 it feels like they are minions with shoddy equipment.



I mean look at the ridiculous state of Garrus's armour and the fact it cant even be fixed. No i dont buy the garrus line (probably inserted at end of development process to explain the contradiction) that he wants to keep his screwed armour to remember.



You really believe they scripted that in from the beginning? No they just lazied out on the armour and released the game unfinnished. Like it says "cycle appearance" in the team status tab but one does not actually cycle through anything. Its two choices. One does not need a good understanding of english to see how thats been last minute roped together, as has the armour in the whole game.



"So? In ME1 i can wear almost all the armors other classes can wear, if i am a vanguard with light armor, i can wear all light armor a soldier wears.



Whats your point?"



My point is obvious to anyone who is not being willfuly obtuse!



In ME1 your class restricts which armour you can wear, which makes sense from a logical perspective. However within that class there is still more choice and potential variation or a) armour, slot upgrades.



Its simple maths, more choices. You might feel those choices were superficial and to some degree they were in some cases, but at least one could experiment with different mix of armour and upgrades, even within speicific light, medium and heavy.



In ME2 you just chose which socks and which pants you'll wear to day from a wardrobe of 2 or 4 sets. And X pants have built-in bonus/upgrade which cannot be customised. So you either like X pants as is or you dont. No potential of configuration.

[n4d4n]

Cygnus Atratus wrote...

n4d4n wrote...

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?

If I am then I think you are just disagreeing with those who are complaining about the lack of customization just for the sake of not complaining and not agreeing.

You are probably right.

Until we get some empirical evidence we will never know. *snicker*

Let me rephrase: Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread,
you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and
heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles?

[Coldcall01]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Unique to who? What you mean is that in ME2 Shepard has armour which no-one else can have. Thats not the same thing.

Unique to yourself and another player.
Have you actually bothered buying armor parts? You can customize each part of the default N7 armour to your liking (wether stats-wise or aesthetics-wise), so yes, it is customisable, and can look extremely different than its default, unlike in Mass1 where all you got was a new paintjob and about three standard models going from I to X, where the only two armours that mattered to *anyone* were Colossi and Predator L/M/H and any of them the type X. So, at most, four armour types. For your Shep on Mass2, your default N7 armour can have four different patterns, 20(?) colours to choose from, two tints plus a pattern tint, the you can combine several types of should pads, arms, legs, torso and helmet, making the customisation options *far* superior to Mass1's. What you -seem- to be complaining isn't lack of diversity, it is lack of needless complication.
Now, that said, I would like more squad customisation options, but still, I do not agree with your stance, especially your demeanour.
So, your so-called "empirical" analysis at Mass2 armour isn't any more than a subjective opinion arrogantly passed as fact that, as I've proved, isn't all that verifiable due to the combinations you can make to the N7 armour.

Mind you, it is your right to prefer Mass1 armour to Mass2's, no one in their right mind would deny you that, but your arrogant demeanour takes away all the credit your stance may have had to begin with.

Of course i have bought every armour part in the game of ME2 and found it totally lacking in variation and ability to finely tune my characters armour stats and bonuses, compared to ME1.

About the only positive change in ME2 on the armour front is the colours feature. That does add numerical variation but there is almost zero numerical variation to the meaningful armour stats which were present in ME1.

[themaxzero]

Besetment wrote...

ME1 was better at creating the illusion of complexity but it isn't really any more complex than ME2 is.

Well spotted and my feelings exactly.

Sure you had an inventory,but it was a pain to use.

Sure every character could use every weapon, but in reality they pretty much stuck with one.

Sure there were many types of armour and weapons but everyone ended up wearing Col X and using Spectre Weps.

Sure you could customise the armour but everyone either ended up with Energised Plating for Tanks or Medical Exo skeletons for everyone else.

Sure there were heaps of planets to explore but 90% consisted of trying to drive the Mako over a mountain range (RAGE!).

I am enjoying ME 2 far more then ME 1 and have to think about my play a lot more then I ever did in ME 1.

Modifié par themaxzero, 05 février 2010 - 01:17 .

[Besetment]

Coldcall01 wrote...

Besetment,

Interesting post and i agree with you about illusion. But the point is that all computer games are based on an illusion. The trick is making that illusion as convincing as possible, and that is done by giving a player so many choices and configurations that he/she loses sight of the illusion.

The less choices and variations one has, the easier it is to start nit-picking about the shallow and linear gameplay.

Yes, often a game can seem complex when actually its not, but in ME1 armour was very configurable not just because of the different models (which many seem to think all look alike) but alos the upgrade slot system built into the armour sets.

This allowed options within options, which is not the case with ME2.

How is armour configurable in ME1? You can't change out individual pieces or anything like you can with N7 armour in ME2. None of the models matter because Colossus and Predator are completely superior to everything else so there is never any reason not use either of them unless you can't find them. I used Ursa VII for my second playthrough because it looked cool even though it had the same stats as Predator VII and both were entirely inferior to Colossus VII.

You can argue that you want to play dress up in ME2 but can't because you only have the heavily armoured look. I can see that as a reasonable position but you must be smoking crack if you think ME1 had more configurable armour. Alot of the different types were the same but with different skins (Ursa = Predator = Scorpion = Mantis) so the level of redundancy was staggering. ME2 just eliminates most of that redundancy but it also gets rid of the illusion that you were under in ME1 that you had a wealth of choice when it comes to armour. Upgrades just don't have as much visible impact. When you think about it there were only 4 different model bases for armour: light, medium, heavy and another type which I believe needs to be cheated in via the console (Spectre armour). N7 armour has 3 or 4 different models for each peice and they are all interchangeable.

Do you mean armour mods? Damn, I just used medical interfaces and then medical exoskeletons. Everything else may as well not exist for the player character. NPC armour variety is definitely more limited though.

Modifié par Besetment, 05 février 2010 - 01:18 .

[n4d4n]

themaxzero wrote...

Besetment wrote...

ME1 was better at creating the illusion of complexity but it isn't really any more complex than ME2 is.

Well spotted and my feelings exactly.

Sure you had an inventory, which was a pain to use.

Sure every character could use every weapon, but in reality they pretty much stuck with one.

Sure there were many types of armour and weapons but everyone ended up wearing Col X and Spectre Weps.

Sure you could customise the armour but everyone either ended up with Energised Plating for Tanks and Medical Exo skeletons for everyone else.

Sure there were heaps of planets to explore but 90% consisted of trying to drive the Mako over a mountain range (RAGE!).

I am enjoying ME 2 far more then ME 1 and have to think about my play a lot more then I ever did in ME 1.

I just want to be able to wear light or medium versions of armor if playing as an Adept or Infiltrator Assasin.

Gawsh.

[Shallina]

I don't know why Bioware did that to mass effect. Why change MASS effect from Sci FI RPG to a linear shooter ?



If they wanted to do just a shooter, fine, but ME2 wasn't the game to do it.

[DarthCaine]

n4d4n wrote...

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?

What variety? Like I said:

DarthCaine wrote...

There was only 3 different models for armors in ME1. The others were just with a different color and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different

Modifié par DarthCaine, 05 février 2010 - 01:19 .

[Fujin05]

In Fact: You aren't capable of wearing MEDIUM and LIGHT armors in ME2. And so I do agree with the OP.



Take Care.

[Coldcall01]

work it out.



ME1 you had 3 classes of armour.

ME1 you had at least 10 different models



3 * 10 = 30.



ME1 had within those classes 10 levels of quality.



30 * 10 = 300



ME1 had minimum 2 upgrade slots on each set of armour.



300 * 2 = 600



ME1 had at least 10 different types of upgrade cartidges and different levels of quality (im guessing now)



600 * 10 (this is very conservative as im not counting different quality of protection)



= 6000 (possible variations depending taking all classes into account) Note the real figure is much higher because of the upgrade levels but i cannot be bothered.



Now if you care to do the same for ME2 and show me how you can have more unique possible configurations of armour I;d be much appreciated.



You'll have to hit 6000 at a minimum. Go on someone prove me wrong.

[Fujin05]

...there are also no stats for the armor in ME2 anymore, or am I missing something...? :S

[themaxzero]

Coldcall01 wrote...

work it out.

ME1 you had 3 classes of armour.
ME1 you had at least 10 different models

3 * 10 = 30.

ME1 had within those classes 10 levels of quality.

30 * 10 = 300

ME1 had minimum 2 upgrade slots on each set of armour.

300 * 2 = 600

ME1 had at least 10 different types of upgrade cartidges and different levels of quality (im guessing now)

600 * 10 (this is very conservative as im not counting different quality of protection)

= 6000 (possible variations depending taking all classes into account) Note the real figure is much higher because of the upgrade levels but i cannot be bothered.

Now if you care to do the same for ME2 and show me how you can have more unique possible configurations of armour I;d be much appreciated.

You'll have to hit 6000 at a minimum. Go on someone prove me wrong.

All my guys wear Collosus X (Light, Medium or Heavy).

So for me there is really only one version.

[n4d4n]

DarthCaine wrote...

n4d4n wrote...

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?

What variety? Like I said:

DarthCaine wrote...

There was only 3 different models for armors in ME1. The others were just with a different color and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different

Did I mention Mass Effect 1? Doesn't change the fact that most people would want to see a greater selection of armor types, and the ability to choose between light, medium and heavy armor variations instead of just one type of armor: being the N7 and being forced to wear the heavy version of it.

This would benefit the game, not take away from it.

Modifié par n4d4n, 05 février 2010 - 01:26 .

[Fujin05]

[quote]

All my guys wear Collosus X (Light, Medium or Heavy).

So for me there is really only one version.

[quote]

I prefered Titan because it looked much better. And even on Insanity it worked out. But it's not about what's the best solution. It's about the simple option to do as you like. And not to be forced to have the armour all game long. I think that's the mainpiont the OP wants to say.

I also miss Upgrades...

Modifié par Fujin05, 05 février 2010 - 01:28 .

[Coldcall01]

themaxzero wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...

work it out.

ME1 you had 3 classes of armour.
ME1 you had at least 10 different models

3 * 10 = 30.

ME1 had within those classes 10 levels of quality.

30 * 10 = 300

ME1 had minimum 2 upgrade slots on each set of armour.

300 * 2 = 600

ME1 had at least 10 different types of upgrade cartidges and different levels of quality (im guessing now)

600 * 10 (this is very conservative as im not counting different quality of protection)

= 6000 (possible variations depending taking all classes into account) Note the real figure is much higher because of the upgrade levels but i cannot be bothered.

Now if you care to do the same for ME2 and show me how you can have more unique possible configurations of armour I;d be much appreciated.

You'll have to hit 6000 at a minimum. Go on someone prove me wrong.

All my guys wear Collosus X (Light, Medium or Heavy).

So for me there is really only one version.

But that was not the point. Maybe everyone has one armour they always wear with the same upgrade loadout but the choice is still there. There's no accounting for people's tastes.

I still think heavy Collosus looks really gay on male Shepards :-)

[Rheia]

I'm of two minds on the armor complexity issue. I have no gripes whatsoever with squad mates using their own armor and having their unique look, but I would have liked, like many others, to have medium and light variations of armor for my character. Costumization options were very nice, but once again they were only for HEAVY. I don't like heavy . I played my Shepards (in both ME1 and ME2) as a very mobile/agile always moving fighter (adept usually, infiltrator coming as a close second) and honestly... heavy armor doesn't make sence for them.

Modifié par Rheia, 05 février 2010 - 01:29 .

[themaxzero]

n4d4n wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

n4d4n wrote...

Ok wait a minute, according to the majority of people on this thread, you wouldn't like to have a selection of, firstly light, medium and heavy versions of armor, secondly a greater variety of armor styles? Am I correct in saying that?

What variety? Like I said:

DarthCaine wrote...

There was only 3 different models for armors in ME1. The others were just with a different color and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're different

Did I mention Mass Effect 1? Doesn't change the fact that most people would want to see a greater selection of armor types, and the ability to choose between light, medium and heavy armor variations instead of just one type of armor: being the N7 and being forced to wear the heavy version of it.

This would benefit the game, not take away from it.

I would also like more crew members, more quests, more planets and more abilities. Gamers always want more.

Of course more options would be nice but not having them there isn't much of a loss.

I don't think you understand how much effort it is to make that many armour textures and models is, especially when it has questionable gameplay value.

Modifié par themaxzero, 05 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[Coldcall01]

But that is a funny thing about this debate on armours. Its how ME2 fans are arguing for less armour than in ME1.



I just dont get it. Would'nt we all like more armour?



I find some people spring to the defence of obvious flaws in ME2 with the most convoluted excuses. Maybe im wrong about the numerical difference in choices but that was my OP, and i suggest there is only one way to prove me wrong and thats do the ME2 maths and I'll be here waiting.



Everything is opinion and preference.

[SithLordExarKun]

Coldcall01 wrote...

work it out.

ME1 you had 3 classes of armour.
ME1 you had at least 10 different models

No, 3 different models(L,M,H) and 10 different textures.

Its essentially the same looking armor with a different paint job,  in ME2 you can give your armor a paintjob and customise individual parts with each part having different stats and capabilities.

So by your "deductive maths logicks", ME2 armor > ME1 armor.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 05 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[Coldcall01]

For instance look at how armour/clothes are handled in most party-based RPGs. The main PC has more or less the same armour chocies as that which he can outfit his/her team. Yes there are sometimes a few unique pieces which only the PC or certain party-members can wear but on the whole, there is an equality about the configuration of armour.



In ME2 Shepard has some choices, all of them unique armour to him/her. His squad have 2 choices, excatly 2, and one has to be unlocked :-)