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I loved the game...up until...


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#51
bdawg3103

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Myrmedus wrote...

- if you had to avoid it out in the open rather than always be able to retreat behind the convenient cover,
- if you had to jump from platform to platform to avoid the ones being torn down,
- if one of your teammates actually got GRABBED by the thing and you had to shoot the hand to free them.


Awesome ideas... I thought much the same thing about all that cover i had to hide behind, it definitely lessened the intensity of the fight for me.

Oh and I doubt it would end up looking like a human and flying through space like Megatron in the end. I postulate that the 'core' of each Reaper looks like its original species but that core is built around with the typical squid-like shell.


Its scary how much we think alike :pinched:

#52
Shepard Lives

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Hold on everyone. The Protheans were not made into Reapers (possibly because they have that weird DNA structure?). EDI says it when you find the larva: the Reapers tried to make a Prothean Reaper and they failed.

Oh and I find the "Reapers all look different but then they get the creepy squid shell" idea absolutely cheap. It's far more likely, IMO, that they have assimilated some pre-Prothean race, and that that particular race looked like a bunch of squids.

I think it is possible that the squid species was the last one that managed to kill a Reaper, or to slow them down anyway.

Modifié par shepard_lives, 05 février 2010 - 04:19 .


#53
Agamemnon2589

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 Don't understand why people didn't like the last boss. Thought it was rather epic myself, and I liked the concept.

#54
Myrmedus

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I do wish it was harder though, definitely wish the character moved faster while aiming because then they could've stripped away all the indestructable cover and made you need to avoid its attacks.

I also think that the only weak point should've been its heart and not its eyes, or if they insisted on the eyes having a weakness it should've just temporarily 'blinded' it but not actually dealt damage to its HP.

Also, I generally don't like encounters with 'phases' but this would've been a good one to have that.

Having said that if you want a more challenging experience put away the damn mini-nuke and sniper rifle...they're KNOWN for being completely overpowered. 

Modifié par Myrmedus, 05 février 2010 - 04:21 .


#55
Gaddmeister

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Myrmedus wrote...

I think the fatal flaw alot of gamers have here is the incapability to play the game as if they were in Shepard's shoes. If you didn't get involved in the narrative it doesn't really matter what is thrown at you, you're not going to be affected by it as you should. People who laugh at the last boss an idea is to imagine for a second that you actually ARE Shepard, or perhaps the idea of that thing being outside your house right now ripping your home apart - laughing now? You need to involve yourself rather than just look at the pretty pictures on your monitor and move your mouse to shoot them - I think losing people in the final mission helps this feeling. Another problem with people in this thread is they seem to all of a sudden lose interest purely because it looks similar to something that has done before; what I put to you is that the Terminator itself was done before, you know how? It's called the HUMAN SKELETON -.- So now we're never going to be able to see new robots based upon on the human skeleton? For shame.


Er ok. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I got really immersed in this game. To quote a certain doctor: it's very "emotionally engaging". Actually ME2 is one of the best games I've ever played. There, I said it. I love the characters you recruit, I love the missions, I love the lore up until the human reaper. It's hard yo get past that one and I don't understand what it has to do with immersion. It has to do with some sort of credibility. It feels like Bioware needed a great boss and thus had to adapt the lore to allow them to create the human reaper. To me, this epic sci-fi game turned into some kind of arcade action game for a moment there. But I can live with that, because I really love this franchise. Still, I would rather have fought the collector leader possessed harbinger and his minions in an epic final battle. Sure, why not create a human reaper, but why did it have to look and act like that?

#56
v0rt3x22

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Gaddmeister wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I think the fatal flaw alot of gamers have here is the incapability to play the game as if they were in Shepard's shoes. If you didn't get involved in the narrative it doesn't really matter what is thrown at you, you're not going to be affected by it as you should. People who laugh at the last boss an idea is to imagine for a second that you actually ARE Shepard, or perhaps the idea of that thing being outside your house right now ripping your home apart - laughing now? You need to involve yourself rather than just look at the pretty pictures on your monitor and move your mouse to shoot them - I think losing people in the final mission helps this feeling. Another problem with people in this thread is they seem to all of a sudden lose interest purely because it looks similar to something that has done before; what I put to you is that the Terminator itself was done before, you know how? It's called the HUMAN SKELETON -.- So now we're never going to be able to see new robots based upon on the human skeleton? For shame.


Er ok. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I got really immersed in this game. To quote a certain doctor: it's very "emotionally engaging". Actually ME2 is one of the best games I've ever played. There, I said it. I love the characters you recruit, I love the missions, I love the lore up until the human reaper. It's hard yo get past that one and I don't understand what it has to do with immersion. It has to do with some sort of credibility. It feels like Bioware needed a great boss and thus had to adapt the lore to allow them to create the human reaper. To me, this epic sci-fi game turned into some kind of arcade action game for a moment there. But I can live with that, because I really love this franchise. Still, I would rather have fought the collector leader possessed harbinger and his minions in an epic final battle. Sure, why not create a human reaper, but why did it have to look and act like that?


that's exactly what I mean - and why I made the thread.
I expected to fight the collector harbinger, and the reaper came to me as a suprise - but in a negative way.

#57
Zemore

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in what way would fighting the collector general have been more fun? he doesnt appear to be made for combat in the first place he looks like he was made to work the computers of the collectors and monitor all activities.

the reaper shouldent have been that much of a suprise after all we all Knew that the end would have somthing to do with WHY they were taking humans and only humans this was why.



its not like it suddenly went oh and for no reason heres a human reaper buuuuh byyyyyeeeeeee

#58
Agamemnon2589

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Myrmedus wrote...

I do wish it was harder though, definitely wish the character moved faster while aiming because then they could've stripped away all the indestructable cover and made you need to avoid its attacks.

I also think that the only weak point should've been its heart and not its eyes, or if they insisted on the eyes having a weakness it should've just temporarily 'blinded' it but not actually dealt damage to its HP.

Also, I generally don't like encounters with 'phases' but this would've been a good one to have that.

Having said that if you want a more challenging experience put away the damn mini-nuke and sniper rifle...they're KNOWN for being completely overpowered. 

Yeah...I force myself to stick to the SMG whenever I fight the last boss for that very reason. Used the Cain the first time through, and while it was quite epic, I felt like a cheater. XD Also, don't use the missile launcher - for the exact opposite reason. Half the time you miss half your shots because the damned missiles take so long to reach the thing.

#59
Gaddmeister

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Zemore wrote...

in what way would fighting the collector general have been more fun? he doesnt appear to be made for combat in the first place he looks like he was made to work the computers of the collectors and monitor all activities.
the reaper shouldent have been that much of a suprise after all we all Knew that the end would have somthing to do with WHY they were taking humans and only humans this was why.

its not like it suddenly went oh and for no reason heres a human reaper buuuuh byyyyyeeeeeee


The human reaper was not that much of a surprise, no. But the way it looked and the way the final battle was... I have two words for that: completely ridiculous.

In a final battle, the collector general could have been shielded or kept in a certain room that you had to get to by killing other collectors plus something worth a final battle, I don't know. I'm not a designer, but they could have come up with something better even though the general itself was no fighter, I'm sure of that.

#60
Moogliepie

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themanynamed wrote...

Yeah, the Human!Reaper was just so bad it was laughable. If the Reapers resemble the races they're created from, why do all the other Reapers in the fleet that we get a glimpse of look like squid? Shouldn't there be some variation? Besides, why would they want to look like a conquered and supposedly inferior race? I really hope they don't make matters worse by revealing it's some kind of Borg situation. The cliches and cheap plot devices might just kill me.

Worst of all was that the wannabe Terminator/Borg was a super easy kill. I parked my Shepard's butt behind some cover and with a few shots of my sniper rifle it was dead. My Shepard wasn't even injured!

Honestly, the timed retreat in the Collector's ship was the hardest fight, or series of fights, I've had. The timer and that flying thing that I can never remember the name of gave me hell until I figured out how to deal with it.

MN.


The giant squids the original Reapers were based on, might have been the first and only ones since. Remember, EDI explains the Collectors may have tried to make a Prothean Reaper, but it failed. It's also possible that the squids replaced whatever form the Reapers were in before. As being "conquered and inferior," the fact that humans stopped Sovereign, plus they're genetic diversity (as Mordin explains on Tuchanka), may have been behind the decision to make a human Reaper. We really don't know enough about the Reaper's motivation yet to make any conclusions, but I thought it opened the door for more interesting speculation.

I agree, the battle was too easy. It kind of reminded me of old 8-bit and 16 bit final battles, like the one pic posted above. I had a harder time being swarmed by Husks or facing two heavy mechs at the same time, than I did with the final boss. But then again, the leaping Saren in ME1 was much lamer.

#61
Russalka

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I actually would have prefered the original concept for the reaper larva. Truly terrifying picture of a giant in a fetal position, looking like a baby.



Wait, fighting an giant infant would have been even stranger.

#62
Myrmedus

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Gaddmeister wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I think the fatal flaw alot of gamers have here is the incapability to play the game as if they were in Shepard's shoes. If you didn't get involved in the narrative it doesn't really matter what is thrown at you, you're not going to be affected by it as you should. People who laugh at the last boss an idea is to imagine for a second that you actually ARE Shepard, or perhaps the idea of that thing being outside your house right now ripping your home apart - laughing now? You need to involve yourself rather than just look at the pretty pictures on your monitor and move your mouse to shoot them - I think losing people in the final mission helps this feeling. Another problem with people in this thread is they seem to all of a sudden lose interest purely because it looks similar to something that has done before; what I put to you is that the Terminator itself was done before, you know how? It's called the HUMAN SKELETON -.- So now we're never going to be able to see new robots based upon on the human skeleton? For shame.


Er ok. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I got really immersed in this game. To quote a certain doctor: it's very "emotionally engaging". Actually ME2 is one of the best games I've ever played. There, I said it. I love the characters you recruit, I love the missions, I love the lore up until the human reaper. It's hard yo get past that one and I don't understand what it has to do with immersion. It has to do with some sort of credibility. It feels like Bioware needed a great boss and thus had to adapt the lore to allow them to create the human reaper. To me, this epic sci-fi game turned into some kind of arcade action game for a moment there. But I can live with that, because I really love this franchise. Still, I would rather have fought the collector leader possessed harbinger and his minions in an epic final battle. Sure, why not create a human reaper, but why did it have to look and act like that?


What it has to do with immersion is that people are judging it based upon ignorance which isn't a great policy: we have NO idea what BW's plans for ME3's plot are so we have no idea whether the Human-Reaper was tacked on or always an intended plot development/reveal.

I don't really see how it 'acted' any different to another Reaper it just moved and attacked...as for why it looked like that it's explained in the game and I'm amazed at the amount of people who don't seem to understand it -.-

That Human-Reaper is an organic infant, just like a human baby or a horse calf. It has synthetics interwoven with its body but it's not like a normal Reaper having a synthetic shell. Because of that it's basically a giant human and so it's 'growing' in the same way a human would if they were in a womb (in fact it is in a womb of sorts); thus it grows into a humanoid shape. Not only that but developing the story in this way casts mysterious shadows over the Reaper's intentions and motives for doing what they do because now we're wondering if they think they're giving organic species a 'gift'.

There's another reason for it to be shaped that way aswell, from a theatrical point of view, and that is to establish a connection between the PC and the boss. Sovereign was completely alien - we thought it was pure machine and it was shaped like a squid or insect which are generally viewed by people as looking 'alien-like'. The purpose for the Human-Reaper is different, opposite in fact; in the same reveal we're told it's partially organic, it's made up of humans and VISUALLY it's humanoid - this all of a sudden produces a connection between organic species and the Reapers, and more directly between humanity, Shepard and the Reapers.

Perhaps it'll be significant in ME3 that we know the Reapers are based upon previous organic species, perhaps knowing that they're partly organic will leave them prone to a particular type of weapon - for example, knowing their 'core' is organic means they could be weak against the Neutron radiation attack you detonate in the Collector Base if you don't wish to blow it up. Knowing they're at least partially organic is an important piece of intel because all of sudden the way in which you fight that enemy changes, but it also means we're one step closer to understanding them. What Vigil says in ME1 comes to mind as being about as wrong as you can get: "Your survival depends on stopping them, not on understanding them" - understanding a foe is vital TO stop it, and I actually thought that in the conversation WITH Vigil, so now that we're closer to achieving that goal we're closer to stopping them.

As far as I'm concerned, the flattest explanation would be they require us to procreate and survive, and they wipe out the entire galaxy since so many are needed for one Reaper alone.

#63
Myrmedus

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Gaddmeister wrote...

Zemore wrote...

in what way would fighting the collector general have been more fun? he doesnt appear to be made for combat in the first place he looks like he was made to work the computers of the collectors and monitor all activities.
the reaper shouldent have been that much of a suprise after all we all Knew that the end would have somthing to do with WHY they were taking humans and only humans this was why.

its not like it suddenly went oh and for no reason heres a human reaper buuuuh byyyyyeeeeeee


The human reaper was not that much of a surprise, no. But the way it looked and the way the final battle was... I have two words for that: completely ridiculous.

In a final battle, the collector general could have been shielded or kept in a certain room that you had to get to by killing other collectors plus something worth a final battle, I don't know. I'm not a designer, but they could have come up with something better even though the general itself was no fighter, I'm sure of that.


We're talking about originality and you recite an encounter style that has been done thousands of times? :P

The boss itself was fine, the indestructable cover was not....

#64
screwoffreg

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I didn't have a problem with the last boss. I actually expected to fight some giant Reaper and was not disappointed. It was hardly a surprise as it shows what happens to the horrifically mutilated humans who you are there to save. My only issue was the Reaper was not particularly hard, but Bioware is not usually known for its incredible last boss battles.



For everyone citing Terminator, well, considering a human skeleton can only look a certain way...how else was it supposed to appear?

#65
screwoffreg

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For those wanting to fight Harbringer, by the way, it would be hard considering his main form is in Dark Space. I am sure he will make an appearance in ME 3.

#66
Lok2k

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The first thing that popped into my head was: "I'd like to see him swim through space." It made me laugh and then I just got sad.

#67
Obsidian Gryphon

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I was more disgusted by the fact that humans were melted into genetic materials to be welded into the new Reaper form than the thing resembling a Terminator or whatever. Posted Image  It's only after all the fire crackers were done and watching the credits roll that I started thinking of anime, especially giant robots whomping unfortunate civilian centers. Posted Image  

#68
Handren

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themanynamed wrote...

Yeah, the Human!Reaper was just so bad it was laughable. If the Reapers resemble the races they're created from, why do all the other Reapers in the fleet that we get a glimpse of look like squid? Shouldn't there be some variation? Besides, why would they want to look like a conquered and supposedly inferior race? I really hope they don't make matters worse by revealing it's some kind of Borg situation. The cliches and cheap plot devices might just kill me.

Worst of all was that the wannabe Terminator/Borg was a super easy kill. I parked my Shepard's butt behind some cover and with a few shots of my sniper rifle it was dead. My Shepard wasn't even injured!

Honestly, the timed retreat in the Collector's ship was the hardest fight, or series of fights, I've had. The timer and that flying thing that I can never remember the name of gave me hell until I figured out how to deal with it.

MN.


IMO the hardest fight in the game was the platforms on the collector ship. I simply could not get past it on ahrdcore or even veteran. I had to Dial my game back to nromal to geth through. I switched back to hardcore a bit later and the rest of the game, even the last level, was fine.

#69
Kolaris8472

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For any other Collector Edition owners, I think there's a pair of much better concept art drawings for the Human Reaper near the back of the art book. Should have looked more like that imo, "Larvae-ish"

#70
LordNige

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And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.

#71
radtz

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I loved the concept but I was dissapoingted in how small it was. Then I read the posts about it being the CORE of a new reaper. Now I think its spot on.

#72
Myrmedus

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LordNige wrote...

And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.


Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

#73
Myrmedus

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radtz wrote...

I loved the concept but I was dissapoingted in how small it was. Then I read the posts about it being the CORE of a new reaper. Now I think its spot on.


Yeah and I think it would've grown more aswell since it was still a fetus pretty much.

#74
NeoGuardian86

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it is the Governator! oh noez!



thought it was interesting. wondering what it'll all mean in the end.

#75
Lew717

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Myrmedus wrote...

LordNige wrote...

And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.


Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

Why not build it into a sphere then? Something that looks closer to a core?
If it's just a core, why bother give it eyes and arms or any moving parts anyway