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[T1l]

Myrmedus wrote...

Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

It's the general consensus of three people in this thread, all of whom may or may not be correct. There is nothing in the game which would suggest that is the case. It's a hypothetical answer with little to support it. It is more logical to assume that what you actually do see in the game is representative of the final construct.

Modifié par T1l, 05 février 2010 - 05:52 .

[EmperorKaveje]

it caught me by surprise it did look AWSOME

v0rt3x22 wrote...

....the human reaper boss.

That really was the corny part of the game.

[Talon_Wu]

Aside from the fact that it's a giant robot fuelled by Soylent Green, let's consider what we know:

1) The Collectors render people into component genetic material for this project. Why? Do they have some way of keeping those individuals' memories and abilities active, using them against their own people when the Reaper "grows up"? Unsettling idea.

2) The Collectors/Reapers wanted Shepard. Was this to use Shepard's heroic and tactically superior material in this Reaper? Likely, and even more of a reason to thank Liara.

Personally, I think the SquidShips are just that - ships. Would it not be cool if the Reapers are actually the operators of those ships, and are the result of the nasty liquification of entire species. I can forgive the giant robot if that's the idea behind it.

[Obadiah]

I thought the reaper was cheezy the first time I saw it. Then came to life, and I had a "HOLY S***!!!" moment.

[Wolverfrog]

Skynet called. It wants it's robot back.

[BECC4]

Talon_Wu wrote...

Aside from the fact that it's a giant robot fuelled by Soylent Green, let's consider what we know:

LMAO!

Talon_Wu wrote...
1) The Collectors render people into component genetic material for this project. Why? Do they have some way of keeping those individuals' memories and abilities active, using them against their own people when the Reaper "grows up"? Unsettling idea.
2) The Collectors/Reapers wanted Shepard. Was this to use Shepard's heroic and tactically superior material in this Reaper? Likely, and even more of a reason to thank Liara.
Personally, I think the SquidShips are just that - ships. Would it not be cool if the Reapers are actually the operators of those ships, and are the result of the nasty liquification of entire species. I can forgive the giant robot if that's the idea behind it.

I too wondered if the skeleton wasn't well, a skeleton (no pun intended) for the ship and they all get the squid shell/suit thing over the top (not to be confused with shellsuits )

[Myrmedus]

T1l wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

It's the general consensus of three people in this thread, all of whom may or may not be correct. There is nothing in the game which would suggest that is the case. It's a hypothetical answer with little to support it. It is more logical to assume that what you actually do see in the game is representative of the final construct.

It's come up in numerous previous threads with actual discussion and argument specifically on the subject. While it's not 100% of course it's certainly a more plausible conclusion than thinking about it "swimming through space" 

Modifié par Myrmedus, 05 février 2010 - 06:59 .

[Myrmedus]

Lew717 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

LordNige wrote...

And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.

Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

Why not build it into a sphere then? Something that looks closer to a core?
If it's just a core, why bother give it eyes and arms or any moving parts anyway

Because you're thinking about it as if it were built; you describe it being "given" eyes and arms. It's 'grown' at this stage, not 'built', so they haven't 'given' it eyes or arms it's simply grown that way because it's human. Why they seem to have an organic core rather than being 100% synthetic is probably a more mysterious question.

[Mann42]

A few things about the human-reaper reveal:

1) Appearance: I thought it looked pretty good. I do think that one of the "hybrid" human-reaper concepts shown in the collector's edition art book would have looked better and been more unsettling. The design they went with had too many similarities to Terminators, and the use of more Reaper stylization and symbolism would have helped to eliminate that impression and make the boss feel more consistent with the rest of ME.

Basically, I thought it was good, but it could have been great.

2) Difficulty: It was way too easy, and cheapened any real sense of threat that it was supposed to pose. Even without using the Cain or a Sniper Rifle, it just wasn't challenging. I'm supposed to fear the reapers, but there was very little to fear in this fight. I think that, had the fight been more intense and challenging, it would have made a more menacing impact, even with its minor appearance problems.

3) Story: I disagree with everyone that says the human-reaper was "tacked-on" for a super big boss fight, especially because the entire game revolved around finding out why the collectors, and by extension the reapers, were kidnapping millions of humans. I thought it tied the story together, and led to a lot more questions (as many of you are asking in this and other threads).

ME2's core story seems like it was to lead to the revalation that the Reapers use the organic material of "worthy" life forms to evolve. A human actually caused the death of one of them, so they tried to create a hybrid, to see if their new form could indeed be human. The most important, and frightening, revelation is that humans ARE compatible with Reaper genetics, and while that knowledge may give us an advantage in ME3, it might also prove to be an advantage for the Reapers as well.

Also, defeating the Reapers again could either strengthen their resolve to collect and assimilate all humanity, or they might decide to write off their losses and decide that the total obliteration of humanity is the only way to save themselves.

Anyway, there are tons of unanswered questions, but none of them seem entirely inconsistent with the ME mythology, and all of them create tense but uncertain foreshadowing for what is to come in the next game. I will admit that the explanation of some of these story points came and went too quickly, embedded in lengthy or ill-timed exposition by EDI, but ultimately, everything still holds together (relatively) well, and it gives Bioware a great starting point going into the final act.

Modifié par nexworks, 05 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[Mann42]

Myrmedus wrote...

Lew717 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

LordNige wrote...

And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.

Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

Why not build it into a sphere then? Something that looks closer to a core?
If it's just a core, why bother give it eyes and arms or any moving parts anyway

Because you're thinking about it as if it were built; you describe it being "given" eyes and arms. It's 'grown' at this stage, not 'built', so they haven't 'given' it eyes or arms it's simply grown that way because it's human. Why they seem to have an organic core rather than being 100% synthetic is probably a more mysterious question.

While I'm not entirely sure if I agree with your "core body in a space-ship suit" theory, I do agree with you on the "grown vs. built" thing. The fact that you have to point it out to anyone honestly makes me wonder how many of the people in this thread just skipped over most of the game's dialogue and ignored the visual and setting clues.

The fact that the Reapers are synthetic beings that were grown and evolved from organic material tells us a lot about them, and I think this was always the intention. Organic material used as a base, but coaxed into a synthetic material as it fused together and evolved: something wholly synthetic created from organic material. 

If the Reapers think that synthetic life is inherent superior, then they are giving humanity a gift by uplifting them from their organic bodies and giving them form as something perfect and synthetic. If held in a metaphysical context, the Reapers believe they are gods, bringing judgement upon all life with the promise of immortality and perfection for those that are worthy, the ultimate "salvation through destruction".

If this were the case, the human form of the reaper may not be entirely because they were forced to grow a human form because of the DNA, but intentionally, as a part of the promise of salvation and immortality, that the form remains intact. If humans are good enough to be uplifted to a superior, synthetic form, then is it not appropriate for their form and image to remain intact?

The fact that the current Reapers all look the same could lead to the assumption that their squid like form are exo-skeletons. It could also lead to the assumption that the Reapers haven't found another organic species worthy of true reaper-hybrid uplifting since the first one, which makes the revelation of human-reaper compatibility even more significant.

But we won't really know until ME3, anyway, so I guess its all just speculation.

[Jorithel Ravencrest]

The first thing that popped into my head when I saw that was how it was just a really bad Contra rip off. I personally thought the game was good up to that point...and then it went all to hell with the goofy end boss.

[Frotality]

Myrmedus wrote...

LordNige wrote...

And what was the finished Human Reaper going to do, fly round space like a giant Ironman? Also, If Reapers were the pinacle of creation (synthetic and organic) why even bother building it. I was all pumped up for a fight with the Collector commander in the flesh and I get a giant half made Robo-Skeleton!? That's the only real criticism I can level at the game, other than that 5 minute encounter ME2 is AAA.

Do people not read? It's virtually a consensus that the Human-Reaper was just a core that would've been built around to make a more 'squid-looking' Reaper. It's been stated SO many times on these forums and in this very thread....

Seriously <_<

so the general consensus of the forums= Bioware's plan for the story?

whatever anyone thinks it might be, the whole problem is that we have to think about it, there is little to no reason for its existence given in game other than conjectures by EDI. the design is the major flaw, like much of the game, it is too radically different from what we expected; a human reaper hybrid couldve been a great surprise, but in making it look nothing like a reaper or even husk it blew away any suspension of disbelief at that point. if it maybe actually looked like a mix of squid/human reaper, maybe had harbinger creepily explain it to you all sovereign-esque we rule you lose style, and was actually difficult, it couldve been a great twist, instead its just an unnecessary and very awkward twist.

[Sidney]

nexworks wrote...

2) Difficulty:[/b] It was way too easy, and cheapened any real sense of threat that it was supposed to pose. Even without using the Cain or a Sniper Rifle, it just wasn't challenging. I'm supposed to fear the reapers, but there was very little to fear in this fight. I think that, had the fight been more intense and challenging, it would have made a more menacing impact, even with its minor appearance problems.

I had a miserable time using heavy weapons on it for some reason but the assault rifle with inferno armor went through it like a hot knife through butter.

[HelterSkelter89]

two shots to the face with the cain and its dead.

[Majpain007]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

....the human reaper boss.

That really was the corny part of the game.

I have to agree somewhat. I didn't think it was corny just not explained well.

[Zemore]

ive debated with damn near any topic thats spoke about the human reaper being a core

heres some real fact guys
No one knows much about the reapers
we now know how they are made
we dont know how old they are
how many thier is
we dont know if theres more than one type of species of reaper meaning if the gaint squids are all different species origins or not.

the only clear cut fact is that thing was in human form it was stated as "half finished" so yes he looked a bit gooey and cheesy but id rather think on what he wouldve looked like had u not kicked his eye sockets in.
Iron man !

(also anyone says theres prothean reapers wrong no evidence had that argument like 20 times in 2 days -.-)

Modifié par Zemore, 05 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[Eradyn]

Gaddmeister wrote...

Lew717 wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

Oh I agree completely. The final boss felt totally out of place in this game and universe. I still think it's a great game, but that was a bit over the top for my taste. I never thought I'd say this, but.... "Why Bioware, why?" <_<

Also, didn't the human-reaper look awfully small? Sure, it was only the upper body, but still. Was it even as big as the Normandy? I mean Sovereign must have been like a kilometre long, right?

It's a larva. A fetus. YOU ABORTED HIM.

Yeah but... so reapers actually grow in size? How does that even work?

Reapers are organic/inorganic constructs.  They are both living, organic creatures and machines.  They take upon the traits of the host-race used in their development.  Since they used humans, the human-reaper would ultimately have more human traits.

It was still an embryo/larva, so what it would have ultimately looked like once fully-developed is up for grabs.  This was all explained by EDI in-game.

On-topic and in general: The final boss didn't ruin my enjoyment.  I thought it was sufficiently alien that I wasn't too jarred.  If I could have improved anythign: I wanted a 10-minute battle timer or something that reflected the urgency of the situation.

Modifié par Eradyn, 05 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Zemore]

ctsaxon1983 wrote...

Damoadrthade wrote...

It was, as soon as i saw it i literally lmao i mean we just had another terrible terminator movie and bioware makes a 100ft terminator the final boss.

I am sorry bur Redemption was not terrible. Much much better than Rise of the machines.

thats like saying Having Diorhea is better than drinking it both dont feel great buddy

Modifié par Zemore, 05 février 2010 - 09:14 .

[FriendofGarrus]

Most people agree that the boss was laughable and a terrible way to end an otherwise great game. It was just outrageously corny. I think the idea of having to fight enemies while trying to escape the exploding base in a limited amount of time would have been a huge improvement and more tense.

[Zemore]

FriendofGarrus wrote...

Most people agree that the boss was laughable and a terrible way to end an otherwise great game. It was just outrageously corny. I think the idea of having to fight enemies while trying to escape the exploding base in a limited amount of time would have been a huge improvement and more tense.

yet it would just be boring your forgetting the fact thats all you did going in to the place fighting the same **** over and over it broke the monotimy of just fighting Harbinger over and bloody over he talks too much

[kell-vallon]

I loved ME2 until i discovered i wouldn't get to see Talis face in the romance scene Then i get to the end and see the uber cheesy terminator wanna be boss. I almost wanted to cry lol.