34932 réponses à ce sujet

[epoch_]

jlb524 wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

yeah, thats the rumor


Is there anyway to transfer group leadership? I don't have feelings for Ash anymore.

Probably...I wouldn't know how though.   If you really want to, you could PM a dev.

Edit:  nvm, you already figured it out.

I figured it out. I'm just waiting for someone to want it.

Well, if no one else wants it, I'll take it. 

send me a message when you've joined the group.

Modifié par epoch_, 05 février 2010 - 05:23 .

[Badpie]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


well said Jlb. We are the more mature ones. that again alludes to my talk about Tali and the "pre-schoolers". They have this militant disposition that says, "everyone should like Tali" and they are sorely mistaken. But that is the trait of children and grown ups with the self discipline of a pig with diarhea, they just poop all over the place without any control over it. (I didn't mean to find the most disgusting example, but I think it drives home the point best)

Woah.  Easy there, Delta. 

We're all friends here.

....cept that one guy 

LOL, yeah I think I did get carried away, but IMO, there are too many people who take the Tali fan thing as an offense when it is really funny in a way. And most, not all of her fans are crazy and plenty immature. But I learned not to get all involved in petty wars, so I am trying to free people from getting so defensive of their LI against people who want to attack them. The onese attacking are showing their lack of character and their full tank of stupidy.

What I don't understand is why we can't all like more than one person.  I love Ash, but that doesn't mean I hate Tali for example.  I love Tali.  I think she's adorable.  My Shepard just...prefers Ash is all. 

[Saroslol]

I liked Ash for being a character with depth in ME1 but I thought the way **** went down on Horizon was downright ridiculous. Telling you that you betrayed her, the alliance, and everything you used to stand for just because you were resurrected by Cerberus, and also having no trust in you was just too much for me.

[MattD47]

I liked Ash a lot -- I even liked the Horizon scene. Think about it all from her point of view:

1) My Paragon Shep spent all of ME1 getting her to soften her attitude towards aliens. (And insofar as Ash was a representative of everyman/everywoman humanity, that felt like perhaps the key symbolic accomplishment of the game.) Then in ME2, she gets word from the Alliance or the Council that I'm back and working for the radically pro-human Cerberus (and the Alliance hates Cerberus for making humanity look bad, so I'm sure they didn't phrase this development in a positive light at all). That's got to feel like a betrayal, to Ash, of everything my Shep said in the first game -- the kind of thing that could cast doubt on whether Shep really meant the other things he said in ME1, like about their relationship. She's probably been stewing on those thoughts for a few weeks before she sees Shep on Horizon.

2) Ash isn't dumb, and she may well also realize -- or have been informed by the Alliance or Council -- that Cerberus was using the information leak that brought her to Horizon as a lure to get the Collectors to attack. Which is to say, the organization Shep is working with was just responsible for the abduction of 1/3 of the colonists that Ash had been trying to save; it's understandable that she's pissed.  So in her eyes, either a) my Shep is knowledgeable and complicit in this, or he's foolishly naive about working with Cerberus.  I really liked this about Ash (and I've said this in other threads): in ME1, I held her character to higher standards (re: aliens), and helped her become a better person for it; in ME2, she's trying to hold Shep to the same high standards (re: Cerberus), and I appreciate that.

3) We, as players, have had 2 years to think of ourselves as "in a relationship" with Ash. However, my sense is that not much time passed between the end of ME1 and the attack at the beginning of ME2. The fact is Shep and Ash haven't known each other that long. People are acting as though Ash's failure to "stand by her man" (or by her captain, for FemSheps) and trust Shep is a great betrayal, but really, it's perfectly normal behavior for two people who don't know each other very well and who aren't sure what they might have together. You tend to over-react, read things into actions that aren't there, etc. It's human. It would frankly be sort of creepy if she were willing to accept everything Shep says unthinkingly and trust him unconditionally. The fact that she doesn't is a big part of why Ash is such a good character (and such a good match for Shep). Yeah, she has a temper. Hopefully it'll make for some good make-up sex -- and a significantly expanded role -- in ME3.

Modifié par MattD47, 05 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[trigger2kill1]

Badpie question... How can you have Ash, Kaiden on a squad again we were forced to choose between one or the other at Virmire and well a clone would solve some of those problems but not all. The only way would be to add dlc for ME1 so we could pick another martyr. your solution....?

Delta feel free to add your 2 cents if you would. For that matter anyone else in that Ash, Kaiden, liara club.

Thanks

[epoch_]

Saroslol wrote...

I liked Ash for being a character with depth in ME1 but I thought the way **** went down on Horizon was downright ridiculous. Telling you that you betrayed her, the alliance, and everything you used to stand for just because you were resurrected by Cerberus, and also having no trust in you was just too much for me.

I know right, I was thinking, Ash, I didn't choose to be resurrected and I certainly didn't choose who did it.

Modifié par epoch_, 05 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[Badpie]

trigger2kill1 wrote...

Badpie question... How cau you have Ash, Kaiden on a squad again we were forced to choose between one or the other at Virmire and well a clone would solve some of those problems but not all. The only way would be to add dlc for ME1 so we could pick another martyr. your solution....?
Delta feel free to add your 2 cents if you would. For that matter anyone else in that Ash, Kaiden, liara club.
Thanks

Probably the same way they'll have any of the ME2 characters on the squad.  I mean they could ALL die.  Apparently the possibility of death won't be able to stop the writers from working them into the story....I hope.

[DigitalMaster37]

Badpie wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


well said Jlb. We are the more mature ones. that again alludes to my talk about Tali and the "pre-schoolers". They have this militant disposition that says, "everyone should like Tali" and they are sorely mistaken. But that is the trait of children and grown ups with the self discipline of a pig with diarhea, they just poop all over the place without any control over it. (I didn't mean to find the most disgusting example, but I think it drives home the point best)

Woah.  Easy there, Delta. 

We're all friends here.

....cept that one guy 

LOL, yeah I think I did get carried away, but IMO, there are too many people who take the Tali fan thing as an offense when it is really funny in a way. And most, not all of her fans are crazy and plenty immature. But I learned not to get all involved in petty wars, so I am trying to free people from getting so defensive of their LI against people who want to attack them. The onese attacking are showing their lack of character and their full tank of stupidy.

What I don't understand is why we can't all like more than one person.  I love Ash, but that doesn't mean I hate Tali for example.  I love Tali.  I think she's adorable.  My Shepard just...prefers Ash is all. 

here's the thing... you can, but certain LI fans don't believe that it is possible. If you visit some of these threads, it is quite sad. Then you see people get sucked into LI wars which further aggrivates the situation.

I LOVE Liara. She is my favorite of all. But on Shep 2, I romanced Miranda and enjoyed her. So we share that philosophy. Personally I couldn't romance Tali, it just doesn't work for me. Yet I will never bash you for liking her more than Liara. NEVER. It's just the children on these boards that don't get that, that's all.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 05 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

trigger2kill1 wrote...

Badpie question... How cau you have Ash, Kaiden on a squad again we were forced to choose between one or the other at Virmire and well a clone would solve some of those problems but not all. The only way would be to add dlc for ME1 so we could pick another martyr. your solution....?
Delta feel free to add your 2 cents if you would. For that matter anyone else in that Ash, Kaiden, liara club.
Thanks

My solution would be to have the game read the save state and decide whether to include Ashley or Kaidan depending on the choice at Virmire, just like ME2 does. It's not like you need both of them in the squad on one playthrough. 

Of course you have the problem where Bioware ends up including an NPC the player might never actually use, but meh, they already played with people who don't import ME1 saves anyway. (Seriously, anything that can go wrong does in a vanilla ME2 game. Wrex dies, council dies, etc etc etc.)
  

[Spectre_Shepard]

man... two years is gonna be a long time to wait for some resolution...

[trigger2kill1]

K and Thanks reasonable and/or plausable routes around this I suppose. I proposed this more for curiosities sake than to Enkindle someones ire.

thanks again

[trigger2kill1]

Possible some, if not most, of the Tali adoration comes from the fact that you can't or won't ever see what she looks like without some major plot elements being followed through with.

[Antbrawler]

All this conflict between people with different love interests is pretty stupid, different people will like different love interests. Ashley is indeed the character that i love, but i like Tali aswell, but she happens to be the kind of girl i'd just like to give
a nice big hug now and then and be good friends with, i can see why
alot of people like Tali but Ashley is something different alltogether and rather special if you ask me.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

MattD47 wrote...



1) My Paragon Shep spent all of ME1 getting her to soften her attitude towards aliens. (And insofar as Ash was a representative of everyman/everywoman humanity, that felt like perhaps the key symbolic accomplishment of the game.) Then in ME2, she gets word from the Alliance or the Council that I'm back and working for the radically pro-human Cerberus (and the Alliance hates Cerberus for making humanity look bad, so I'm sure they didn't phrase this development in a positive light at all). That's got to feel like a betrayal, to Ash, of everything my Shep said in the first game -- the kind of thing that could cast doubt on whether Shep really meant the other things he said in ME1, like about their relationship. She's probably been stewing on those thoughts for a few weeks before she sees Shep on Horizon.

I could understand her feelings on this matter, but for the sake of their past history, she should at least have allowed Shep to explain himself. 

2) Ash isn't dumb, and she may well also realize -- or have been informed by the Alliance or Council -- that Cerberus was using the information leak that brought her to Horizon as a lure to get the Collectors to attack. So in her eyes, either a) my Shep is knowledgeable and complicit in this, or he's foolishly naive about working with Cerberus. I really liked this about Ash (and I've said this in other threads): in ME1, I held her character to higher standards (re: aliens), and helped her become a better person for it; in ME2, she's trying to hold Shep to the same high standards (re: Cerberus), and I appreciate that.

It didn't come off like that to me. The thing with Shep turning her from her anti-alien views was that they talked about it over the course of the whole Saren situation. They communicated and discussed how they felt. Here Ash is just jumping to conclusions about why Shep's running with Cerberus now, without allowing him to discuss why he's doing what he's doing. It's really sad/distressing because even Garrus and Tali, both characters who have a lot less reason to give Shep the benefit of the doubt, trust Shep's judgement enough to listen to him, while Ash does not. 

3) We, as players, have had 2 years to think of ourselves as "in a relationship" with Ash. However, my sense is that not much time passed between the end of ME1 and the attack at the beginning of ME2. The fact is Shep and Ash haven't known each other that long. People are acting as though Ash's failure to "stand by her man" and trust Shep is a great betrayal, but really, it's perfectly normal behavior for two people who don't know each other very well and who aren't sure what they might have together. You tend to over-react, read things into actions that aren't there, etc. It's human. It would frankly be sort of creepy if she were willing to accept everything Shep says unthinkingly and trust him unconditionally. The fact that she doesn't is a big part of why Ash is such a good character (and such a good match for Shep). Yeah, she has a temper. Hopefully it'll make for some good make-up sex -- and a significantly expanded role -- in ME3.

I don't know, how long was ME1 supposed to take? Take that, plus the two months between the end of ME1 and the beginning of ME2... It sounds like it's enough time to develop a deep connection with someone. Especially when you've got the cascading effect that comes when you rely upon someone to save your life in combat. Ashley obviously thought there was a connection; she didn't seem like the type to sleep with someone unless she genuinely cared for and trusted them. (After all, sleeping with someone with any more attachment than casual sex/one night stands makes you vulnerable to that person; A lot of Ash's personality and charm is based around trying to make herself not vulnerable.) 

[Badpie]

MattD47 wrote...

I liked Ash a lot -- I even liked the Horizon scene. Think about it all from her point of view:

1) My Paragon Shep spent all of ME1 getting her to soften her attitude towards aliens. (And insofar as Ash was a representative of everyman/everywoman humanity, that felt like perhaps the key symbolic accomplishment of the game.) Then in ME2, she gets word from the Alliance or the Council that I'm back and working for the radically pro-human Cerberus (and the Alliance hates Cerberus for making humanity look bad, so I'm sure they didn't phrase this development in a positive light at all). That's got to feel like a betrayal, to Ash, of everything my Shep said in the first game -- the kind of thing that could cast doubt on whether Shep really meant the other things he said in ME1, like about their relationship. She's probably been stewing on those thoughts for a few weeks before she sees Shep on Horizon.

2) Ash isn't dumb, and she may well also realize -- or have been informed by the Alliance or Council -- that Cerberus was using the information leak that brought her to Horizon as a lure to get the Collectors to attack. Which is to say, the organization Shep is working with was just responsible
for the abduction of 1/3 of the colonists that Ash had been trying to
save; it's understandable that she's pissed.  So in her eyes, either a) my Shep is knowledgeable and complicit in this, or he's foolishly naive about working with Cerberus.  I really liked this about Ash (and I've said this in other threads): in ME1, I held her character to higher standards (re: aliens), and helped her become a better person for it; in ME2, she's trying to hold Shep to the same high standards (re: Cerberus), and I appreciate that.

3) We, as players, have had 2 years to think of ourselves as "in a relationship" with Ash. However, my sense is that not much time passed between the end of ME1 and the attack at the beginning of ME2. The fact is Shep and Ash haven't known each other that long. People are acting as though Ash's failure to "stand by her man" (or by her captain, for FemSheps) and trust Shep is a great betrayal, but really, it's perfectly normal behavior for two people who don't know each other very well and who aren't sure what they might have together. You tend to over-react, read things into actions that aren't there, etc. It's human. It would frankly be sort of creepy if she were willing to accept everything Shep says unthinkingly and trust him unconditionally. The fact that she doesn't is a big part of why Ash is such a good character (and such a good match for Shep). Yeah, she has a temper. Hopefully it'll make for some good make-up sex -- and a significantly expanded role -- in ME3.

All this.  QFT.

Although I agree with Facehugger in that Shepard should have had a chance to explain it better.  The problem is he didn't.  They BOTH handled it pretty badly.  And the writers made sure you couldn't just grab her and spill everything to her thus making her go "oh...well...I guess I understand."  Both of them suck at talking it out. 

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[bjdbwea]

She was a great character in ME 1, one with depth, even if some people overlooked it. In ME 2, like all other ME 1 companions, there's simply way too little dialogue with her to explain the strange changes that BioWare in their endless wisdom decided to force upon them. I really wish BioWare had continued the series with the old companions, maybe take a few of the less important ones, add a few new ones for new players. The Tali screamers could've still gotten their Tali romance, and those who liked Kaidan, Ashley or Liara, would've gotten theirs as well. The developers promised to bring them back in ME 3, but why throw them away in the first place? Never made sense to me, and my fears that this would harm the experience, have become true. IF the separation from the ME 1 LIs was supposed to be an important plot element, it would've needed to be executed much better and more detailed.

[DarthRic]

bjdbwea wrote...

She was a great character in ME 1, one with depth, even if some people overlooked it. In ME 2, like all other ME 1 companions, there's simply way too little dialogue with her to explain the strange changes that BioWare in their endless wisdom decided to force upon them. I really wish BioWare had continued the series with the old companions, maybe take a few of the less important ones, add a few new ones for new players. The Tali screamers could've still gotten their Tali romance, and those who liked Kaidan, Ashley or Liara, would've gotten theirs as well. The developers promised to bring them back in ME 3, but why throw them away in the first place? Never made sense to me, and my fears that this would harm the experience, have become true. IF the separation from the ME 1 LIs was supposed to be an important plot element, it would've needed to be executed much better and more detailed.

Well hopefully ME3 will be a mix of ME1 and 2 companions (hopefully including Ashley, obviously)

[Cpl_Facehugger]

DarthRic wrote...

Well hopefully ME3 will be a mix of ME1 and 2 companions (hopefully including Ashley, obviously)

I'm calling it right now: Based on the way BW choreographed the "you look at your LI's picture" scene if you remain faithful, Ashley/Kaidan/Liara are going to show up and play a significant role in ME3. Maybe not squadmates, but a lot more interaction than just Horizon/Illium.  

[Badpie]

bjdbwea wrote...

She was a great character in ME 1, one with depth, even if some people overlooked it. In ME 2, like all other ME 1 companions, there's simply way too little dialogue with her to explain the strange changes that BioWare in their endless wisdom decided to force upon them. I really wish BioWare had continued the series with the old companions, maybe take a few of the less important ones, add a few new ones for new players. The Tali screamers could've still gotten their Tali romance, and those who liked Kaidan, Ashley or Liara, would've gotten theirs as well. The developers promised to bring them back in ME 3, but why throw them away in the first place? Never made sense to me, and my fears that this would harm the experience, have become true. IF the separation from the ME 1 LIs was supposed to be an important plot element, it would've needed to be executed much better and more detailed.

I understand what Bioware is doing in regards to the story.  And I think it's ambitious and awesome.  The problem with this is that the only people who really understand what they're doing are the people who played ME1.  The folks just picking up ME2 are left saying "who are these people (Ash/Kaidan/Liara) and why the hell should I care about them.  Oh I know.  I won't."  Which is sad.

[Saroslol]

epoch_ wrote...

Saroslol wrote...

I liked Ash for being a character with depth in ME1 but I thought the way **** went down on Horizon was downright ridiculous. Telling you that you betrayed her, the alliance, and everything you used to stand for just because you were resurrected by Cerberus, and also having no trust in you was just too much for me.

I know right, I was thinking, Ash, I didn't choose to be resurrected and I certainly didn't choose who did it.

Seriously, she barely acts happy to see you and doesn't even care that no one else but Cerberus is trying to do something about the colony abductions. I also wanted to thank her for her vote of confidence in my ability to make smart decisions. 

[DarthRic]

Saroslol wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Saroslol wrote...

I liked Ash for being a character with depth in ME1 but I thought the way **** went down on Horizon was downright ridiculous. Telling you that you betrayed her, the alliance, and everything you used to stand for just because you were resurrected by Cerberus, and also having no trust in you was just too much for me.

I know right, I was thinking, Ash, I didn't choose to be resurrected and I certainly didn't choose who did it.

Seriously, she barely acts happy to see you and doesn't even care that no one else but Cerberus is trying to do something about the colony abductions. I also wanted to thank her for her vote of confidence in my ability to make smart decisions. 

Well when all Sheperd can come up with is "Hi Ash how have you been?" what do you expect?

[Badpie]

DarthRic wrote...

Saroslol wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Saroslol wrote...

I liked Ash for being a character with depth in ME1 but I thought the way **** went down on Horizon was downright ridiculous. Telling you that you betrayed her, the alliance, and everything you used to stand for just because you were resurrected by Cerberus, and also having no trust in you was just too much for me.

I know right, I was thinking, Ash, I didn't choose to be resurrected and I certainly didn't choose who did it.

Seriously, she barely acts happy to see you and doesn't even care that no one else but Cerberus is trying to do something about the colony abductions. I also wanted to thank her for her vote of confidence in my ability to make smart decisions. 

Well when all Sheperd can come up with is "Hi Ash how have you been?" what do you expect?

I had the same reaction as Ash.  "THAT'S IT?!"

WTF SHEPARD?!

Again, they both handled it badly.  It was the most awkward situation they could ahve possibly found themselves in.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

DarthRic wrote...

what do you expect?

I kept waiting for a paragon interrupt where Shep ignores her sputtering rage and kisses her, then strokes her hair and calmly says "Ash, I love you." 

[Badpie]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

DarthRic wrote...

what do you expect?

I kept waiting for a paragon interrupt where Shep ignores her sputtering rage and kisses her, then strokes her hair and calmly says "Ash, I love you." 

WHY?!  WHY HAVE THE INTERRUPT GODS FORSAKEN US?! 

...that would have been awesome....

[Spectre_Shepard]

The lines available to Shepard when you meet Ash are truly terrible.



I was literally thinking, This is not how I would handle this at all.



First of all I would have tried to contact her immediately. When she called me out for that, I was like, I WANTED to but the game never gave the option.



and seriously... whats with the Hi, how have you been? Wow, shepard. Wow. And I would have loved the option to more strongly denounce cerberus. I hated working for those guys. But you never get to drive that point home until the end. I wanted to do it right then and there.



Oh well. We can only hope that Shepard is given the option to atone in ME3.