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[Errol Dnamyx]

Doug84 wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

This thread wasnt locked because Ash is #1.
Now we have proof.

I really don't get you.

You first declare that you hate Ashley because she shot Wrex in your game, and then you say how great she is...confused.

Erm, i think you misunderstood me, or i used the wrong words, i don´t know. My english has gotten a bit rusty i´m afraid.

"In this moment, it became totaly clear to me: Man, this woman sure is something "special". "

Special as in great/good/valuable.

Im 100% pro Ashley.

[Badpie]

Doug84 wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

This thread wasnt locked because Ash is #1.
Now we have proof.

I really don't get you.

You first declare that you hate Ashley because she shot Wrex in your game, and then you say how great she is...confused.

That was someone else.

[Doug84]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

This thread wasnt locked because Ash is #1.
Now we have proof.

I really don't get you.

You first declare that you hate Ashley because she shot Wrex in your game, and then you say how great she is...confused.

Erm, i think you misunderstood me, or i used the wrong words, i don´t know. My english has gotten a bit rusty i´m afraid.

"In this moment, it became totaly clear to me: Man, this woman sure is something "special". "

Special as in great/good/valuable.

Im 100% pro Ashley.

OOOOOOOOOhhh.

Sorry, its when you say 'Special' I thought you meant "Special" as in insane / crazy.

Now I get ya!

[yeoldearche]

On her xenophobia:

At worst, it is a mild xenophobic streak which I agree with Doug84. At best, it's an inherent skepticism that isn't limited to just aliens imo. She obviously hates Cerberus, and holds Terra Firma in disdain for their lack of regard to their racist members. To my understanding, her xenophobia is just a specified mistrust of aliens which people focus on, instead of her attitude towards pro-human organizations like the ones mentioned. I guess it just comes down whether you see that as a flaw or a reasonable/forgivable personality trait.

If we were being completely honest, very few humans would trust aliens if we were all thrust into Mass Effect's setting; especially to a certain species which attacked us unprovoked and was intent on conquering and subduing our whole species until their federal government (Council) intervened. And all just 26 years ago, barely one generation. And if some people would trust aliens that quickly... they'd most likely end up like those rooftop crowds who were blown up in Independence Day. My two cents.

Modifié par yeoldearche, 18 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

On her xenophobia:

At worst, it is a mild xenophobic streak which I agree with Doug84. At best, it's an inherent skepticism that isn't limited to just aliens imo. She obviously hates Cerberus, and holds Terra Firma in disdain for their lack of regard to their racist members. To my understanding, her xenophobia is just a specified mistrust of aliens which people focus on, instead of her attitude towards pro-human organizations like the ones mentioned. I guess it just comes down whether you see that as a flaw or a reasonable/forgivable personality trait.

If we were being completely honest, very few humans would trust aliens if we were all thrust into Mass Effect's setting; especially to a certain species which attacked us unprovoked and was intent on conquering and subduing our whole species until their federal government (Council) intervened. And all just 26 years ago, barely one generation. And if some people would trust aliens that quickly... they'd most likely end up like those rooftop crowds who were blown up in Independence Day. My two cents.

True - the xenophobia is mild and she clearly hates people who outright hates aliens. Though in Terra Firma's case, I think its more that they use her Grandfather's 'shame' at Shanxi as apart of their xeno-hate mongering.

And its true that many humans do seem wary of aliens - as you say, not surprising given the short period of time since first contact (which itself did not go well at all). That said, alot more humans seem to have spread themselves out across the galaxy - from balchor parties with Salarians and Turians to trying to get a refund from a certain Turian shop holder...

Overall, I'd actually say Ashley doesn't like that streak of xenophobia within herself. Though her lack of trust in other people seems to be born of her military upbringing, close family, and the stigma that followed her around in the military because of who her family where.

[yeoldearche]

Doug84 wrote...


True - the xenophobia is mild and she clearly hates people who outright hates aliens. Though in Terra Firma's case, I think its more that they use her Grandfather's 'shame' at Shanxi as apart of their xeno-hate mongering.

I definitely got that feeling during the conversation, Ash sounded just disgusted with Terra Firma's manipulation of her own grandfather to further their political goals. Or at least her facial animations made it seem like she was disgusted.

And its true that many humans do seem wary of aliens - as you say, not surprising given the short period of time since first contact (which itself did not go well at all). That said, alot more humans seem to have spread themselves out across the galaxy - from balchor parties with Salarians and Turians to trying to get a refund from a certain Turian shop holder...

Sex and promiscuous Asari bring people together! And the "Refund Guy" is probably an outspoken advocate of Terra Firma these days. He's stuck in consumer hell, poor bastard.

Overall, I'd actually say Ashley doesn't like that streak of xenophobia within herself. Though her lack of trust in other people seems to be born of her military upbringing, close family, and the stigma that followed her around in the military because of who her family where.

The way she's scripted does portray her as unsure of her own feelings toward other species, or at least a little guarded about her opinions. Even on my renegon playthrough I roleplayed my Shepard as cynical but was still more than willing to have allies or at least use them for the greater threat. I couldn't bring myself to reinforce Ashley's skepticism about the alien crew members. Garrus is my bro man, and he was RIGHT there working on the Mako.

Good points, I like to discuss the characters or story this way without it turning into a slugfest between fanboys/critics. I suck at forums otherwise, I have no strong or strong negative viewpoints to sincerely care about other peoples' opinions.

[Ross42899]

I want Ashley back as a team member in ME 3!

[Badpie]

Yeah I think Ash is just naturally suspicious of EVERYONE.

[ComTrav]

Ashley Williams:



Sole Survivor of the Great Thread Lockdown of 2-18-2010.

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

Doug84 wrote...


True - the xenophobia is mild and she clearly hates people who outright hates aliens. Though in Terra Firma's case, I think its more that they use her Grandfather's 'shame' at Shanxi as apart of their xeno-hate mongering.

I definitely got that feeling during the conversation, Ash sounded just disgusted with Terra Firma's manipulation of her own grandfather to further their political goals. Or at least her facial animations made it seem like she was disgusted.

And its true that many humans do seem wary of aliens - as you say, not surprising given the short period of time since first contact (which itself did not go well at all). That said, alot more humans seem to have spread themselves out across the galaxy - from balchor parties with Salarians and Turians to trying to get a refund from a certain Turian shop holder...

Sex and promiscuous Asari bring people together! And the "Refund Guy" is probably an outspoken advocate of Terra Firma these days. He's stuck in consumer hell, poor bastard.

Overall, I'd actually say Ashley doesn't like that streak of xenophobia within herself. Though her lack of trust in other people seems to be born of her military upbringing, close family, and the stigma that followed her around in the military because of who her family where.

The way she's scripted does portray her as unsure of her own feelings toward other species, or at least a little guarded about her opinions. Even on my renegon playthrough I roleplayed my Shepard as cynical but was still more than willing to have allies or at least use them for the greater threat. I couldn't bring myself to reinforce Ashley's skepticism about the alien crew members. Garrus is my bro man, and he was RIGHT there working on the Mako.

Good points, I like to discuss the characters or story this way without it turning into a slugfest between fanboys/critics. I suck at forums otherwise, I have no strong or strong negative viewpoints to sincerely care about other peoples' opinions.

I have to agree with your points. And who can be speciesist against Garrus? He's "da Man" (figuratively speaking - he's technically male, not a man).

Badpie wrote...

Yeah I think Ash is just naturally suspicious of EVERYONE.

True. Even Shepard

[Doug84]

ComTrav wrote...

Ashley Williams:

Sole Survivor of the Great Thread Lockdown of 2-18-2010.

Huh? What are you talking about?

[yeoldearche]

The Tali and Kaidan threads were locked down apparently, maybe the Miranda one and some others as well. Ashley is just badass enough to take this sole survivor background in stride though. Years of therapy and psychological treatment? Hell nah, she's got a reputation to maintain.

[ComTrav]

Doug84 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

Ashley Williams:

Sole Survivor of the Great Thread Lockdown of 2-18-2010.

Huh? What are you talking about?

A lot of the character threads were locked down. Tali, Miranda, Kaidin, Garrus, Liara...

Ashley made it because she's so ****ing tough.

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

The Tali and Kaidan threads were locked down apparently, maybe the Miranda one and some others as well. Ashley is just badass enough to take this sole survivor background in stride though. Years of therapy and psychological treatment? Hell nah, she's got a reputation to maintain.

ComTrav wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

ComTrav wrote...

Ashley Williams:

Sole Survivor of the Great Thread Lockdown of 2-18-2010.

Huh? What are you talking about?

A lot of the character threads were locked down. Tali, Miranda, Kaidin, Garrus, Liara...

Ashley made it because she's so ****ing tough.

Wow, I see - and yet the "Tali thread v3.0" is already up 11 pages, heh. Methink she's not gonna be missing from ME3.

[yeoldearche]

Of course not, they saw it fit to include her in ME2 and as a love interest even before her fanbase picked up steam. Though it would be funny as hell if she was the only one killed off in the beginning of the next game, just to see the outrage and forums crash on release day. /sadistic



Miranda's thread is going strong too! I honestly can't hate the "support" threads, I'd rather see more of those than ones that just rip on one character in a petty way. Tali's face joke thread has my endorsement though... Gonna see if any good ones have been posted today.

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

Of course not, they saw it fit to include her in ME2 and as a love interest even before her fanbase picked up steam. Though it would be funny as hell if she was the only one killed off in the beginning of the next game, just to see the outrage and forums crash on release day. /sadistic

Miranda's thread is going strong too! I honestly can't hate the "support" threads, I'd rather see more of those than ones that just rip on one character in a petty way. Tali's face joke thread has my endorsement though... Gonna see if any good ones have been posted today.

Hehe, indeedie. I think Bioware have hit themselves with a catch 22 - they can't unload any of the existing characters without invoking massive hate but if they don't include new ones, it'll be hard for new players to get involved, heh.

Of course, it speaks volumes to the quality of their character writing that support for most of them is so strong. The only bad character in ME so far I think is Jacob - he's just so very, very bland. Jack isn't liked much either, I think, but thats because her character isn't an easily likeable person by design, heh.

[DroneSlayer]

yeoldearche wrote...

Of course not, they saw it fit to include her in ME2 and as a love interest even before her fanbase picked up steam. Though it would be funny as hell if she was the only one killed off in the beginning of the next game, just to see the outrage and forums crash on release day. /sadistic

.. on a more importante note , I agree with most things said in this forum , most of all with Rambo 46 who's input is getting dangerously low at the moment , but I have high hopes especially when reading fanfic from Badpie
or reply's from Doug84 

[yeoldearche]

Rambo46 is probably just constructing an Ashley shrine in his backyard, or something.

Modifié par yeoldearche, 18 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[Doug84]

DroneSlayer wrote...

yeoldearche wrote...

Of course not, they saw it fit to include her in ME2 and as a love interest even before her fanbase picked up steam. Though it would be funny as hell if she was the only one killed off in the beginning of the next game, just to see the outrage and forums crash on release day. /sadistic

.. on a more importante note , I agree with most things said in this forum , most of all with Rambo 46 who's input is getting dangerously low at the moment , but I have high hopes especially when reading fanfic from Badpie
or reply's from Doug84 

Quickly, inject Rambo with caffine and show him alot of Ashley pictures! He needs Ashley hugs, STAT!

[Sledgehammer44mm]

ComTrav wrote...

Ashley Williams:

Sole Survivor of the Great Thread Lockdown of 2-18-2010.

Hell yeah, it's glad to see she made it.
Nothing can keep Ashley down!

[yeoldearche]

Doug84 wrote...


Hehe, indeedie. I think Bioware have hit
themselves with a catch 22 - they can't unload any of the existing
characters without invoking massive hate but if they don't include new
ones, it'll be hard for new players to get involved, heh.

Of
course, it speaks volumes to the quality of their character writing
that support for most of them is so strong. The only bad character in
ME so far I think is Jacob - he's just so very, very bland. Jack isn't
liked much either, I think, but thats because her character isn't an
easily likeable person by design, heh.

Eh, I like both Jack and Jacob actually. I wouldn't PERSONALLY like Jack in real life, but she's fictional and has great drama that isn't overdone (imo) so I love her as well. Jacob is kinda like a male Tali, there's nothing to dislike about him. But there's also nothing to fall in love with which is probably why people aren't crazy about him. To me, he's an improvement over Kaidan anyway since his personality isn't flat and monotone.

Modifié par yeoldearche, 18 février 2010 - 10:55 .

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

Doug84 wrote...


Hehe, indeedie. I think Bioware have hit
themselves with a catch 22 - they can't unload any of the existing
characters without invoking massive hate but if they don't include new
ones, it'll be hard for new players to get involved, heh.

Of
course, it speaks volumes to the quality of their character writing
that support for most of them is so strong. The only bad character in
ME so far I think is Jacob - he's just so very, very bland. Jack isn't
liked much either, I think, but thats because her character isn't an
easily likeable person by design, heh.

Eh, I like both Jack and Jacob actually. I wouldn't PERSONALLY like Jack in real life, but she's fictional and has great drama that isn't overdone (imo) so I love her as well. Jacob is kinda like a male Tali, there's nothing to dislike about him. But there's also nothing to fall in love with which is probably why people aren't crazy about him. To me, he's an improvement over Kaidan anyway since his personality isn't flat and monotone.

Thats what I mean - I wanted to like Jacob, but...what is there to like. I really can't understand what it is about him that Bioware seemed to have gotten wrong. He just seems to have very little noticable about him. At the same time, there is nothing to hate about him either, so its just...unmemorable. To me, at least.

[BrotherArdis]

Huh. I like Jacob too. Actually I was somewhat surprised to see him get so poor notes from many people. He's a good guy, one that I would gladly have a beer with. An honest, frank and straightforward man, not much for talking, just wants to do something good in this universe. If he doesn't like you, he doesen't like you, but if you earn his respect, he's of the type that will stand by your side no matter what. And blast that "what" with his shotgun. Garrus is da man, but Jacob's right behind him for me.

[yeoldearche]

Doug84 wrote...

yeoldearche wrote...

Doug84 wrote...


Hehe, indeedie. I think Bioware have hit
themselves with a catch 22 - they can't unload any of the existing
characters without invoking massive hate but if they don't include new
ones, it'll be hard for new players to get involved, heh.

Of
course, it speaks volumes to the quality of their character writing
that support for most of them is so strong. The only bad character in
ME so far I think is Jacob - he's just so very, very bland. Jack isn't
liked much either, I think, but thats because her character isn't an
easily likeable person by design, heh.

Eh, I like both Jack and Jacob actually. I wouldn't PERSONALLY like Jack in real life, but she's fictional and has great drama that isn't overdone (imo) so I love her as well. Jacob is kinda like a male Tali, there's nothing to dislike about him. But there's also nothing to fall in love with which is probably why people aren't crazy about him. To me, he's an improvement over Kaidan anyway since his personality isn't flat and monotone.

Thats what I mean - I wanted to like Jacob, but...what is there to like. I really can't understand what it is about him that Bioware seemed to have gotten wrong. He just seems to have very little noticable about him. At the same time, there is nothing to hate about him either, so its just...unmemorable. To me, at least.

In both cases---Jacob and Kaidan---I would have gave them more tragedy to their characters. Kaidan wasn't even poorly written as a character, his one real flaw was he had migraines. OK, that's fine, but they could have made them more central to his behavior so he was debilitated and had wild mood swings because of them. Migraines suck, so I have some personal experience with it. Instead he just offhandedly mentions he's lucky and gets migraines, halfhearted complaining, and they're rarely mentioned again. And giving him some more problems coping with unintentionally karate kicking that turian to death and his old teenage crush/friend all but leaving him out of fear. But they wrote him so he was "over that part of my life". /shrug

Now Jacob, he wasn't poorly written either. And he at least has more personality than Kaidan so he's a perfectly well-rounded individual. I'd hang out with him anytime. But in fictional stories that isn't what makes the readers compelled to be interested in a character. His father's entire story? Lot of potential, but they wrote that off same with Kaidan (albeit not as easily) with Jacob coming to terms with it well before Shepard enters the picture. So he either forgets what his father became (and that entire mission was downright disturbing, but Jacob kinda takes it in stride) or makes him commit suicide and then forgets him.

Lost potential is how I feel about both characters. At least Jack isn't straight-up **** the entire game, and her romance is very touching.

BrotherArdis wrote...

Huh. I like Jacob too. Actually I
was somewhat surprised to see him get so poor notes from many people.
He's a good guy, one that I would gladly have a beer with. An honest,
frank and straightforward man, not much for talking, just wants to do
something good in this universe. If he doesn't like you, he doesen't
like you, but if you earn his respect, he's of the type that will stand
by your side no matter what. And blast that "what" with his shotgun.
Garrus is da man, but Jacob's right behind him for me.

Good summary of Jacob. He's a lot like Garrus in many ways, except Garrus is idealistic and has a strong sense of justice. Actually, Jacob is like that too. But he's less passionate about it than Garrus which is the difference I think. I'm a dork and like to imagine Jacob, Garrus, Grunt, Wrex, Zaeed, and Shepard all going to a bar and someone (Grunt or Zaeed) starting a fight in the entire place. Brothers-in-arms 'till the end (or until Zaeed's paycheck comes).

Modifié par yeoldearche, 18 février 2010 - 11:21 .

[Doug84]

yeoldearche wrote...

Lost potential is how I feel about
both characters. At least Jack isn't straight-up **** the entire game,
and her romance is very touching.

Agreed on the lost potential. As for Jack... I dunno, she's one of the only LI 's I've not followed up. She just gets on my nerves, honestly. I think its because I've meet a few people who act like her in RL...maybe.

BrotherArdis wrote...

Huh. I like Jacob too. Actually I was somewhat surprised to see him get so poor notes from many people. He's a good guy, one that I would gladly have a beer with. An honest, frank and straightforward man, not much for talking, just wants to do something good in this universe. If he doesn't like you, he doesen't like you, but if you earn his respect, he's of the type that will stand by your side no matter what. And blast that "what" with his shotgun. Garrus is da man, but Jacob's right behind him for me.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. As I said, I did want to like him, and I wouldn't mind hanging around with him in RL. But as a character in a game...he just didn't give me anything emotionally.

- Miranda, has her sister moment.
- Tali, has her finding her dead dad moment.
- Ashley, well, we've already covered her
- Liara has changed to a shocking degree and we wonder what happened to her (And I'll know when they eventually release the comics )
- Jack, she has her tortured childhood.
- Samara has her moment of wiriness after killing Mornith ("Have pity on a broken old warrior")
- Mordin had a whole mission where he had to look at the effects of his work.
- Thane had to rescue his son in a way, and right the wrongs of his life.
- Garrus had his moment of vengenge or emotional release.
- Legion is just awesome and gives us a new view into the world of the Geth.
- Zaeed...well, we found out how much of an **** he was.

With Jacob...well, he never really got a look into his emotions, into his pyschic. He'd already dealt with his fathers issues, and didn't really express much about it afterwards.